Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD)

Ok, I skimmed over this thread and here's my opinion.

re: 2. The image make it look like holes, but it's normal for netting to have stretch marks. I have a feeling those are not actual holes. Anyway, moving on…

re: 3. …after I cut the threads the remaining stitches would still be durable.
I don't think Yang is even talking about the hanging threads. I think he means the loose stitching. In which case, all you'd need to do is even it out a bit.

re: 4. I was not able to use the tent… Then I can wait for the cuben version until…
What? This does not even make sense. He completely skipped the part about asking for full refund.

re: 5. …left a note in the package.
We see the email, but what exactly did the note say?? In the end it doesn't matter what this email says, because if he wrote a note with the return that gave SMD the impression he was cancelling the order, that's why they did not refund shipping.

Are you another Scree?!

It is funny that even at this moment some people are still looking for excuses to blame a consumer but ignore some very basic facts.

If I remember correctly (I know, I know someone will challenge this word but as I am a honest person I do not want to make up something I do not clearly remember) the note I left was basically the print of the email you saw! Is that enough for you?

It looks like you do not have question about the following paragraph. Do you?

> Yang,
>
> After we get the shelter in we can reimburse you for shipping costs.
> The shelter should fit nicely in a priority mail tyvek envelope and
> only weight 1 lb.
>
> Please send to
>
> Six Moon Designs
> 8250 SW Nimbus Ave
> Beaverton, OR 97008
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brandon Moak
> —
> Six Moon Designs
> Innovative Ultralight Adventure Gear
> http://www.sixmoondesigns.com
> 503.430.2303
>
>
>> Brandon,
>>
>> None of them have been used. So we are fine. I am thinking to return
>> them all and buy them later when your cuben version is in stock. But
>> since this is a material defective and not my fault, it does not make
>> sense for me to pay for the shipping to return them. Can you afford
>> the shipping cost? Do you have a way to issue return label? Or you
>> can reimburse the shipping after you receive them?

"re: 5. …left a note in the package.
We see the email, but what exactly did the note say?? In the end it doesn't matter what this email says, because if he wrote a note with the return that gave SMD the impression he was cancelling the order, that's why they did not refund shipping."

What's up with Ron's two deleted responses? Would like to have heard Ron's responses but he deleted them. If you're going to speak your mind, stand behind your own words … Especially on a trivial, if nothing else, bump in the road with a customer. His subjects hinted at a legal response, which indicates that he's not getting the bigger picture, if that is the case ….

Why gang up on a retailer that most of you have never used much less know anything about? Ron wisely deleted his words, apparently deciding not to get caught up in this witch hunt. Quality control means defective products don't leave the store. How many other examples are there out there of Six Moons lack of quality. None. Repeat NONE! i used capital letters that time. I hope nobody takes offense. What a sad group.

So an issue occurred. The grievance was made public. The public has clearly heard.

It remains a matter between SMD and their customer.

Further discussion (and much of the prior discussion) does not add to the situation. Move on.

Anybody heard of any innovative new gear coming down the pipeline that we can get excited about?

Zorg, that is a Monitor stove with a silent burner, uses kerosene. It works fine, I just had to remove the pump tube so I could access the NRV in the bottom, it had come loose and all then had to be resoldered back. My ugliest stove out of 90+. Although I have a multi-thru hike MSR X-GK II that I picked up that is not pretty either, that runs very good.
Duane

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=77784&startat=100

Been tried. You just are going to wait these things out.

Well, it was worth a try.
I, at least, will now move on. Have a fine day all.

Duane I think my dad really does have one of those, and I think he still uses it.

He uses this thing too:

He seemed very excited about using this to "preheat" his MYOG stuff.

Everyone has bad days. Sometimes store owners make mistakes and sometimes customers make big deals out of small things. SMD is awesome. I use many of their products and have never had issue with a product or customer service.

That being said, this thread was awesome. Thank you.

I'm going to disagree with the general consensus. And will probably be accused of attacking Yang for doing so but that is not my intent. I've never done business with SMD or know anyone there so I'm not biased in favor of them.

"It is funny that even at this moment some people are still looking for excuses to blame a consumer but ignore some very basic facts."

Well, the basic facts are not as clear as suggested here.

You ask for replacements for both. Fair enough.

" I am thinking I should get a replacement for both the Tarp and NetTent."

He thinks the trap should be OK and gives you an RMA for the NetTent which he also refers to as the shelter.

"The Haven NetTent can be returned for repair or exchange. We will look at the issue more closely once we get the shelter in.

Please use the RMA code 2013-0502A Include a note that says that you are sending the shelter back due to some small holes."

He did not authorize you to return the tarp. Maybe he should have and maybe not. But you two should have worked that out so it was agreed upon what would be returned before sending anything back.

"After we get the shelter in we can reimburse you for shipping costs. The shelter should fit nicely in a priority mail tyvek envelope and only weight 1 lb."

Again, he is referring to the NetTent. He probably should have stated that explicitly. But one thing we know on BPL is weights. The NetTent weighs 1 lb. From their website:

The Haven NetTent is now 2 oz. heavier, for a final weight of 16 oz.

The combination weighs over 2 lbs.

Even after all that, they probably would have replaced or repaired both items and sent them back as per their stated policy:

Our products are fully warranted to the original owner against defects in materials and workmanship. If our product fails due to a manufacturing defect, we will repair the product, without charge, or replace it, at our discretion.

You are responsible for paying for postage for all products returned for Warranty Coverage. If the item is covered under Warranty, we'll absorb the return shipping cost.

So you were entitled to get the items you ordered repaired or replaced and have the shipping reimbursed. But you decided to cancel the order instead. Which is covered by:

We are confident you will pleased with your Six Moon Designs equipment. However, if for some reason your purchase from Six Moon Designs does not meet your needs, you may return any unused items within 30 days for a full refund (less shipping charges).

Which, in the end, is all that matters. No matter how we got here, you cancelled your order because you wanted something else, the cuben version. If you had just wanted what you ordered fixed or replaced, you shouldn't have cancelled your order.

It appears to me that SMD followed their clearly stated policies. I'm not sure how that leads to 11 pages of castigation on a website.

Randy, that was very well said. I also have no intention to disparage Yang, nor have I ever dealt with SMD. I have also been in the OP's position where I felt terribly wronged by a company; generally I have kind of gotten spoiled in terms of customer service in quite a few dealings with exped, ruff wear, enlightened equipment, MLD…the whole bunch. So I can completely see how you would feel wronged by not getting your shipping costs back.

But Randy was right on the nose when he said it's not so cut and dried, and I can easily see Ron's side that he felt you were just taking advantage (whether that was your INTENT or not, I can see how he would THINK that). What was wrong with the tarp? Why did you return that?

Either way, I can't believe this is still going on about $9. It isn't even the principle of the thing…we've long ago beaten that to death. Yes, Ron should have been nicer. But the OP is not totally innocent in this, either.

I'm going for a hike this weekend. You folks have a nice day.

"It appears to me that SMD followed their clearly stated policies. I'm not sure how that leads to 11 pages of castigation on a website."

Because Brandon said they would refund the shipping if Yang sent in the tent, which is in writing no less, and then Ron overruled the decision once the tent was received by Six Moons. Why are you confused?

**

I ordered a Outfitter, one guy out was not even sewn to the tent. That's it for me.

Jennifer, I have one like that, but with a red, wooden handle, mine is newer, I like that older style torch. They REALLY put the flame out. COOOLLL!!
Duane

Jennifer and Randy, can you tell me what Branden agreed upon based on emails?

"I ordered a Outfitter, one guy out was not even sewn to the tent. That's it for me."

Uh oh Scree thats 2 one more and you have a pattern

Any one who owns or operates a business knows how this should have played out Regardless of policy or Rons Comments about "unforseeable future of said contract". This whole thing is bad for business and thats what we are talking about business.

Oh and people that think that I or others weren't going to buy from him anyway are utterly wrong. I have a gear problem and buy too much of it and was eyeing several of ther products but I have no wish to get cought up in a fiasco like this should I get a product that I am not happy with REGARDLESS of track record for quality gear.

I have personally spent over 6000 dollars(insurance Check) on gear since January and am still buying. I was eyeing their lunar Duo. I had to replace a lot of stolen gear and SMD is now going to miss out on my money along with Yangs.

So from a business owners stand point this whole deal is not worth it and I would just change my return policy….. Plus I think that you would probably get more sales if you paid shipping on all returned goods… Its 9 dollars? Seriously?

Yang – why don't you give it a rest? After all, isn't this discussion distasteful for you?

How many other examples are there out there of Six Moons lack of quality. None. Repeat NONE! i used capital letters that time. I hope nobody takes offense.

Paid shrill ? Worst damage control ever ?

We are losing sight of bob, and the core issue.
–G.B.–

and now we have a few more people with issues with some gear …

i wonder how many people have such issues gear but never bring it up due to the BPL rah rah rah frenzy ;)

and now we have a few more people with issues with some gear …

Nope not possible. Clearly these people are liars, had a bad day, dont know what quality gear is, cant communicate properly, and arent educated in retail law.

GICH

Hey Travis, what does that weigh?

At one time, the few cottage industry manufacturers were somewhat insulated from public dissatisfaction since they didn't have much competition. But that is changing as more companies start to market this kind of gear. Given that, these businesses need to pay attention to customer feedback on the Internet… the internet is their main marketing vehicle, and it can be a double edged sword as customers use the Internet to research goods and read reviews.

Ron didn't do himself any favors by engaging in the conversation in a confrontational manner — he probably did himself more harm than Yang's initial post. Reminiscent of the POE debacle here on BPL, which David Ure pointed out. Had Ron posted here that he had reviewed the purchase and will reimburse the shipping charges the thread would have died, and Ron would have been a hero, enhancing his company. Unfortunately the thread has dragged on and will continue to do so — all of a big negative for SMD. So Ron won a small battle with a customer, and long term may lose the war for new and repeat customers. Even if he changed his mind today, the damage has been done.

I side with Yang on this. He bought a $360 shelter, not a $79 Wal-Mart special. Given that both the inner and outer had manufacturing defects, why would he want a replacement that might have the same quality control, not to mention the lack of quick communication. We pay premium dollars for cottage goods, and as customers we should demand premium workmanship and customer handling. No "Pass Go Free" cards for them.

FWIW, I have purchased gear from SMD, so I am a customer.