Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD)

[Ken Thompson]

Maybe we can talk Ron into a cage match at the next GGG. Always looking for entertainment.

[Bob Bankhead]

[Dave T]

Yet another Oregon SMD fanboi, also with internet clipart/memery.

Hmmmm.

[Greg F]

"Yang screwed up. I know lots of people struggle with that, but hey – Obama got reelected so we know people aren't the brightest sometimes.

Yang screwed up and he doesn't want to admit it. He's done a heck of a good job running a pity thread."

So Zorg posted the above on page 19. What is really funny is that if you read Zorgs post on page one you see him state that he thinks that Yang should have got his shipping refunded. Nice Trolling by Zorg. His first post in the thread "But I still don't understand why SMD didn't refund the shipping – sounds like you just need another email/phone call." Seems a little inconsistent.

One other thing I would like to know from Yang is that after you got the email from Ron Moak stating that he wouldn't refund the shipping what did you send him back? It seems odd that the email chain would end with him just refusing to pay you back for shipping. It might be posted somewhere in here but I didn't see it.

I still believe that Ron should have offered you a credit toward a future purchase but I am interested in what you sent him back after he declined to refund the shipping.

[Ernie Fuentes]

Ladies and Gents…and RON,

It was written many years ago by a great salesman that we ALL know at least 150 people that are important enough to invite to our wedding and to our funeral.

This theory has been the secret to many a businesses growing and succeeding.

Magnify this theory X3 by the power of the internet and you have a great success for a business or a great failure.

This whole post has been an exercise in that theory.

As a business person myself, I have realized in my 55 years that the customer may not ALWAYS be right but you have to treat them as such in order to stay in business.

RON…you know what to do.

Ernie the Eyeball

[Ken Thompson]

"we ALL know at least 150 people that are important enough to invite to our wedding and to our funeral."

False!

Only 2 guests at my wedding. Needed two witnesses.

As for the rest. Maybe 12 total.

Ron has done the right thing. He's decided not to discuss it here.

[Fitz Travels]

He did… Then erased it.

[Ken Thompson]

I didn't say he never discussed it here. He's chosen not to.

[Fitz Travels]

Just because he erased HIS DISCUSSION of the topic, doesnt undo his decision to discuss it.

I cant believe i am actually explaining this to an adult.

21 yet?

[Ken Thompson]

Gotcha!

That was easy.

Just trolling the water this morning as I cannot believe this thread is still going.

I'd like to know the condition of the product returned to SMD, from SMD though. Were those really holes. I never thought the thread ends were any kind of issue at all. See that on all kinds of things from clothes to gear and every textile thing in between.

Ron's biggest mistake was responding on the forum in the first place. The manufacturers always get a crucifixion.

Edit: This entire thread is such a cluster that I refuse to take any part of it seriously. 20 pages over a minor, minor thing. Look how worked up some of you get. Funny these are some of the same people who told me to "calm down, it's only a website" last year. Look in the mirror people.

Laughing…

[David Ure]

I was doing some research on the Tarptent SS2 and came across this thread,

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=61193&skip_to_post=532962#532962

Ironically, the thread was started by Yang who indicated that it appeared that Tarptent had a better warranty than Six Moon Designs.

Yang, were you fully aware of Six Moon Designs return policy prior to ordering from them???

[Yang Lu]

Hi Davey, thanks for the research. You were right I was totally lost my mind. The better policy I mentioned was the days that an unused items can be returned. I remember Tarptent was longer.

Charging for the shipping cost to cancel a defective items was not something I even thought about at that time. I do not remember either company mentioned in their policy.

[Cayenne Redmonk]

People really know 150 people they want at a wedding ?

Is Ron okay with BPL getting membership renewals because of this thread ?

Do people have issues cooking with wood because they don't want to get filthy ?

Will Yang be at the next GGG ?

Which SMD product is bright and cheerful in color without functional compromise ?

What would have happened if Yang wrote Ron with a pencil ideal for the JMT ?

Is email to blame for this ?

–G.B.–

[Jennifer Mitol]

Which socks should I use for the JMT?

[Marko Botsaris]

"Which socks should I use for the JMT?"

OMG! How can you talk about socks when we haven't fully resolved the JMT pencil issue? Focus, please! I can't believe I have to explain this to an adult. ;-)

[Dena Kelley]

The only thing I agree with Scree on (or was it Zorg? They sound exactly the same) is that it would be disingenuous of Ron to offer to refund the money now. Ron made his position clear. To do it now would probably only invite more ridicule. An apology, likewise, would seem insincere at this point. I see this thread primarily as fair warning for future SMD buyers. As a member who uses this forum often for gear research prior to buying, I find threads like these invaluable despite the inevitable lack of civility by a few. I, for one, appreciate the OP for posting this, and for putting up with the crap from a few people and yet still managing to stay civil. Good job, Yang.

[scree ride]

Again words from those who have never dealt with Ron or SMD. It's so easy to jump on the bandwagon and join in the condemnation of a decent person with a decent product when you have no clue other than an obscure vindictive posting. To suggest an alternative leaves one with charges of trolling or of not being civil. I guess I need to pick up the torch and join the crowd. I'd rather buck the trend while asking for some unbiased proof of the story. I personally find it hard to believe. I believe many others will as well. SMD has no worries.

[rmeurant]

Clearly the sock issue is at the core of the service dilemma. Presuming the JMT runs approximately North-South, and presuming a direction of motion, different sock qualities will be appropriate for each foot, unless of course one has only one foot. This follows from the differential exposure to solar radiation experienced by both feet; architects well know that afternoon radiation is far worse than morning radiation, and the sock composition needs to take account of this.

A possible compromise is to differentiate both sides of each sock, but recall that during morning and afternoon periods (as opposed to midday) the foot closer to the sun will experience greater heat gain, and will tend to shade the other foot for at least part of the stride.

A related issue is the direction of the Earth's magnetic field, and the inclination of the direction of the trail to that magnetic axis. Piezo-electric effects may be expected in at least the 4th toe of the foot closer to the direction of the Moon during the first and third quarters, and these will affect the durability of the sock material, and may lead to blistering, especially during periods of high sun spot activity. However, this may also be turned to advantage by capturing the electricity produced, which may be used as a source to recharge devices, such as sock warmers.

I trust this may be of sole benefit to the discussion. If not, I would feel a heel.

[Tanner M]

" …A possible compromise is to differentiate both sides of each sock, … "

I think this point is valid, but it gets a bit complicated not to mention it would require custom socks..

I say go with the typical hiker sock with extra padding in toe and heel. No custom sock needed.

If the trail runs N-S, the significant exposure will be heel and… fore-top/toe.

The sides of my feet aren't that thick; they are low profile like the roofs of houses in Florida and this reduces sun exposure as much as possible. Forget them. If you are hiking north in the summer, your toes bake and need more insulation. If you are hiking north in the winter, your toes will still appreciate the extra insulation.

Basically, if you hike up the earth, insulate the toes, Hiking down, then insulate heels. I suppose typical padded socks could be modded by attacking the unnecessary insulation with a lint brush. For hours.

[Fitz Travels]

I would NEVER buy socks or pencils from SMD.

[Zorg Zumo]

Just like nobody wants to be a "low information voter" who is manipulated by their emotions and unable to make rational decisions, so folks should be careful in disqualifying a vendor based on one thread started by a disgruntled, clueless shopper.

[Dena Kelley]

I don't find the OP to be clueless. The photos speak for themselves on SMD's QA. The OP was promised a refund for his shipping, in writing by SMD, and then it was denied. That's pretty cut and dry. Ron came here himself and further stepped on his geoduck, and so even those of us who have never made a purchase from SMD now have a pretty good idea of what Ron's customer service philosophy is and how it translates.

Because this thread was created, several other people have since stepped up and said they had quality and/or service issues with SMD. So it's not a single issue, and not just one person.

As previously stated, I haven't ruled out buying a product from SMD, but I do take these threads into account when I make a purchasing decision. As others have said, perhaps with SMD it would be best to either purchase used or use a third party seller with a vested interest in taking care of the customer.

[Zorg Zumo]

You don't find the OP "clueless"? Really? Do you think somehow that the OP is an "expert"? Did you even read the OP? Have you purchased anything from SMD? Have you read their return policy?

By the way, I must've missed the legion of SMD customers complaining about SMD quality in this thread.

I agree that forum threads can be a big help in making purchasing decisions, but only if the thread is started on a rational basis. "rational" meaning that the poster is objectively pointing out the good versus bad of a particular product. This thread was simply a pity-party run by a disgruntled inexperienced buyer who never could admit that they made a series of basic mistakes. I learned nothing new from this thread – just another example of how gullible people can be sometimes.

BTW, I'm out of memes so I'm not participating in this thread anymore. So you can feel free to have the last word.

[Dave T]

Regardless of the apologists and fanboys who continue to shout down someone raising relevant concerns about quality control and customer service, the facts speak for themselves…

Buyers of SMD beware.

–B.R.–

[Mark Compton]

I'll make this very brief. Bought a stuff sack from Ron several years ago, details below.

1. E-mail response very slow
2. Stuff sack arrived "without" a cordlock? Would a tent without a zipper be acceptable?

My take: The omission of the cordlock spoke volumes to me as the customer. This was a very small overlooked detail but the fallout/collateral damage was I could not recommend them to friends and family based upon my perceived poor quality control. I do business with small cottage industries but this one is the only one I have ever had issues with. I did not contact them regarding this omission but robbed a cordlock from an old stuff sack.

At the end of the day a business can only remain viable if they provide excellent service and quality of product. Reputation is paramount.

The world won't stop spinning and Ron will not go out of business because I didn't get my cordlock. I am not offended or angry. I post this transaction for all to illustrate the above points.

Although I did not read all the above posts this thread is helpful. The world is an imperfect place and threads like this will not go unnoticed by Ron or other cottage industries who may be reading this. It's simply a wake-up call to perfect their craft.

** Would I buy anything from Ron in the future- sure,he's listening…

[Author]

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