Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD)

I recently got a Whisper pack and communication w them was brief but satisfactory. Hope they make it right.

That is a shame to see. Seems like Ron would want to do what is necessary to get you a non defective product and would also want to sell you the more expensive tarp.

I would email again and ask why I am now dealing with a different person when the first person clearly stated that the refund would be part of the deal.

Some would say its petty but I don't think so. He needs to stand behind what his employees(family) promise.

It's possible that there was an internal breakdown in communication. I find that with polite but persistent communication, most businesses will behave reasonably. Hopefully there will be a favorable resolution for you and SMD.

Looks like they explicitly said they could refund shipping, and then didn't.

Odd that the person handling the issue changed at that point.

It sucks, but if I promised free shipping, and then it didn't happen, I would eat the cost out of pocket to make things right. If the owner does not support his employee handling the support issues in a certain way, they need to work that out between them, not put the customer in the middle of their issue.

SMD has a new pack coming out, and being known as swindlers is bad for business.

Honor your word, cut the check, preserve your company's reputation.

–G.B.–

Did you post this on multiple forums as well?

You have a legitimate complaint about the holes, but not the threads. And I think you screwed up by cancelling the order – that's your fault. You also are wrong thinking that SMD is responsible for your schedule – you should've ordered this gear long ago and tested it before taking it on a trip. And you are wrong-headed about return policies – SMD is not REI, and SMD clearly states their policy.

But I still don't understand why SMD didn't refund the shipping – sounds like you just need another email/phone call.

In general, I dislike people who plss&moan about their purchase on a public forum because of trivial issues. Call a therapist instead.

I think the issue is clear or perhaps you lack reading comprehension.

He was told in writing that his shipping would be refunded and then it wasn't.

My purchase with SMD was great but indirect. I saw on the Prolite Gear site they were selling a Swift backpack for $110 that INCLUDED the belt. And they shipped for free! And Prolite shipped it to my brother as a birthday gift from me. When my brother got it, there was no belt. Prolite got a hold of SMD. It was tricky because SMD was just moving into their bigger building (April 2013 time frame). But Prolite and SMD got my brother the belt for free. Thanx Prolite and SMD!

The terms of agreement from your emails: “The Haven NetTent can be
>> returned for repair or exchange.”

And you opted for cancelling. Most companies require you to pay the shipping back when cancelling so this is normal.

-Barry
-The mountains were made for Teva’s

That is unfortunate. It seems pretty straight forward. I was going to suggest a charge back, but I then realized what your looking for is the shipping charges you paid to ship it back to them.

I find it odd how some people on here get overly defensive of cottage manufacturers when they don't pull through with customer service. SMD should make this right or reap a well deserved reduction in reputation.

Zorg,

I do not like your post at all. As Davey said, you better read the story before post anything.

What made you think I posted this on multiple forums? Are you working for SMD? But you reminded me, maybe I should do that!

You, and SMD certainly do not understand transactions have time constraint. If you ordered something, but the seller failed to deliver the product in an expected time window, you seemed to be really happy to wait for ANY period of time?! Do you?

Why REI is mentioned here? The refund has clearly been confirmed by SMD!

Am I whining about anything? I am sharing my experience and hope others won't experience the same thing. If you dislike, just stop posting.

Barry, thanks for the input.

In my case, Brandon had already agreed to my point of purchasing a cuben (but unfortunately it is not in stock). Can you tell me what I should do if I do not cancel it for now? Should I let them keep my money until the cuben is in stock?

Yang,

You are correct in thinking that because you paid for a product and were given a time frame for delivery that it should be delivered without defects as close to that time frame as possible. If the company you're buying from takes returns and you're not happy with your purchase then by all means, send it back. A couple things you could do:

1. Call your bank and ask them to reverse the charge. Probably not what I would do since it would ruin your relationship with SMD but if you feel like you've been charged in error and don't care about continuing business with them then go for it.
2. If you want to purchase the cuben version, ask them to give you free shipping. That should offset what you paid to send it back.

Often enough somebody will post a disagreement they had with some cottage manufacturer and then said company will post what actually happened. I'm not saying you're being dishonest, just that we are only getting one side of this disagreement. I've bought several things from Ron and always had a pleasant experience.

Erik

…

I'm not sure what it is, but I seem to have a problem like this with just about every cottage manufacturer I deal with. I read nothing but rave reviews here and elsewhere, and then when it comes my turn to deal with them It's a totally different story. I won't name names, but I've had one basically tell me I'm an idiot for being interested in water resistant down because "it's just a gimmick"….I've had one call me a liar when I sent an email about an item missing from my order….I've had one tell me I'm blind when I called about some runs in my tent netting right out of the box.

I WOULD say the common factor must be me…but I work (quite successfully) in healthcare – I'm literally a professional at sugarcoating things and being pleasant to strangers. Just my luck I guess….

What I'm getting at is these people are great at what they do, but they don't necessarily have customer service training/experience. In the end, it's their loss as ultimatley we (the consumer) pay the bills.

I run an online retail business, where every order is a custom order. It's difficult to tell if there was bad customer service at play here, or there was just a simple communication error between employees. From the conversation that you posted, I would guess that returning shipping cost is not what SMD typically does, so they probably had that aspect wrong. I'm thinking that when you brought that to their attention, they SHOULD have gotten apologetic, and refunded you the remainder. Some people are a bit shorter than others when communicating on the internet. Especially the ones who are at the helm of cottage businesses with tons of emails and rough overhead. Obviously because of my bias, I'm inclined to advocate the retailer, but I definitely see where you're coming from. My Philosophy as a consumer is that sometimes you have to take a step back, think about the product that you're buying, what it's for, and check-out the situation.

I have a great tent and would have no qualms about ordering from Six Moons Design again. I was hoping to see something new in their pack line…
Send another e-mail. Cottage industries have their quirks as well as communication breakdowns. So far you are the first negative review I've seen out of a long line of positive reviews. No doubt things go wrong sometimes. We all experience it and sometimes are at fault ourselves. This is a very reputable company, with excellent quality control. Do you think maybe it might be a fluke?

$10-$20 in shipping charges vs. negative publicity in a very small market…

My thoughts, FWIW.

I read your post as well as the email thread. I don't know that you were as "clear" as you seem to think in expressing what your specific needs and expectations were. You say things like "I probably need…" and "I'm thinking to…" I think your post was much clearer than your emails.

I'm not even clear on *which* shipping costs you wanted them to refund. The shipping costs from the original purchase? Or the cost of returning the items?

Brandon's response, essentially one sentence, reads like someone answering without having reviewed the entire email thread. It's vague enough that I can see how you would interpret it the way you did but, otoh, if he hadn't clearly understood what you expected and thought you were just sending in the nest for replacement (which is what I suspect), his response would have been appropriate as well.

Bottom line? I don't think Brandon confirmed his agreement to what you think you asked for. That said, I agree that SMD shows poorly in their customer service skills. They don't need to be an "REI" to have the curtesy to respond to their customers without sounding like they're texting from their smartphones.

What would I do? If it were me, I'd chalk it up to lesson learned. I might send off one last email for satisfaction but I wouldn't expect anything.

Good luck getting it right. I think it sounds like one hand did not know what the other was doing / had agreed to at SMD. Pick up the phone to discuss it without room for error and without waiting for the next email to get to explain yourself.

na

You have trouble with reading comprehension as well.

The OP is not really happy with the quality – meh, I agree, threads are not a big issue (the netting is) – but the issue is the refund. Not whether Six Moons should offer a refund but that they did. The issue is indicating that the refund would take place and then reneging on the refund.

na

Given this thread, I can only assume that his refund will be processed.

Squeeky wheel.

Sorry to hear of the issues.

It's not an excuse but I do note that SMD is growing fast. They just moved into a new location and have outsourced a lot of their production. Perhaps it is just a growing pain.

You may wish to consider zpacks (zpacks.com). I've made several purchases from them and they will just bend over backwards to make absolutely sure you are happy. I'd trust them in a nanosecond. They are also more reasonably priced than SMD.

John Abela,

I think you completely missed my point, but I am not interested in arguing with you becasue you were right that I have no time to waste.

In your last paragraph you mentioned about $20. If I wrote this long post for 20 bucks, I did not see your post was shorter. What is your post for? You have too much free time also?

In your opinion, if I should not care about the 20 bucks, why SMD should care about keeping it?