Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD)

The email says to include a note explaining the problem, along with RMA code 2013-0502A. Are you saying you can't remember if you did this or not?

In the email, SMD is referring to exchanging the NetTent only. That's why it says "shelter" and not "shelters" plural. They never agree to exchanging the tarp.

When SMD says the tarp is "fine", they are not saying it is fine to return it unused. They are saying it looks to be in good condition and does not need to be replaced.

Bowtie come with them?

I vote for the above as the single funniest post on this thread. "When Brandon wrote in his email that shipping would be refunded, what he really meant was he liked ships and wishes he was sailing."

Davey Jones, exactly, it's good business to make customers happy, that's precisely my point, it's very very bad business to do what smd did, although they did have one and only one chance to get some good PR in, which he blew, totally, and that was to just make a first posting, something along these lines: this slipped under our radar, and we did have some inner company miscommunications, I apologize, the money has been refunded. The point in your case is that these companies went above and beyond what is normal or required, and thus earned, surprise surprise, a satisfied repeat customer. Smart. SMD, not smart. Totally does not matter if they are right or wrong, which is something that a lot of people in this thread seem confused about, this is business, and there's good and bad business methods. Zpacks picks the good one consistently, and is considered one of the best because of that.

The thread would have ended right there, with such a statement from smd here, and everyone would say, oh, smd is such a good company, great, he follows the discussion, sees his error, and fixes it, in public. You can lie totally when you say this as owner of the company, it's virtual, not face to face, and it's just part of doing business, even if you hate the client or whatever, gritting your teeth and swallowing hard is just part of the cost of doing business sometimes.

Sometimes it's totally irrelevant who is right or wrong, you just eat it, that's how it goes. I have to eat stuff all the time as a freelancer, and massively larger amounts than $20. All of the rest of this thread would not have happened, it would have vanished, no ill will generated, no endless discussions and made up laws, no picking apart to see who is guilty or innocent, and why and how, just a satisfied transaction.

That should have happened before this even got the posting stage, it's just not worth being right sometimes, in business, you have to snip off the ego at times and just agree, bad press and bad publicity is very damaging, far more damaging than an annoyed ego.

Does Yang Lu now regret renewing his BPL subscription? Could have posted to SMD's Facebook page. Free. I am amused and amazed that this thread has gone 18 pages.

Scree is excellant at stirring the pot. Hope he's having as much fun as I am reading his posts.

Eric Chan should just write one master post that he can reuse over and over as they are always pretty much the same.

Davey Jones should keep his nose out if this as this is American situation and we don't need any foreigners.

You too Miguel. Nothing to be gained here. Don't bother.

Actually this all should be handled between Ron and Yang. Looks like it has been.

I was missing Chaff. But here it is.

I think Miguel is American.

Zorg, that is pretty racist.

Glad to hear SMD worked it out with Yang.

They have been around a while, probably just one big weeks long miscommunication with an 18 page and growing Internet commentary.

Edit: Not Glad to read Yangs post below. My bad. I thought something changed.

–G.B.–

Just to confirm I did not hear anything from SMD.

"Glad to hear SMD worked it out with Yang."

First I want to say hello to everyone…been a long time reader.

I've been following this thread as I am interested in seeing the outcome. Before reading this thread I was considering getting the Skyscape x tent from SMD as soon as it become available again but now I am having second thought. I wouldn't want to deal with the potential headache in dealing with SMD base on what I am getting from this thread.

For those SMD fanboys(you know who you are :)), you are not doing the company any favor by blindly supporting it. You would only encourage substandard QC and customer service and in the long run will destroy the company. I can understand the need to support the cottage industry but not at the expense of quality products and customer service.

Well I just got a piece of gear in from an… uh anonymous cottage gear shop.
I took it out pitched it in the yard inspected every tiny stitch.
Well it is perfect no issues.

Maybe we could start a Chaff Thread bragging on the fabulous gear we get form these specialized gear makers.Anyone can go negative but how many of us thank these guys for answering endless emails as we scrutinize every detail. Or ask for random add-ons and custom changes.

Like Zpacks- Joe and Matt answer questions all hours. Turn custom work around quickly and smile while doing it.

Or BearPaw Wilderness- John goes out of his way to get it right and the customer happy.

Or Six Moon Designs- Ron typically does great work

Or MLD, or HMG or, or or Ya I think overall they all do a great Job.

So who can go positive and start an 19 page+ thread? you?

Harald,

You are right, commercial practices regularly deviate from the law, either by explicit agreement or one party imposing its will on the other. Neither of these changes the law when the contract is otherwise silent, especially between a vendor and a lone one time buyer, in the cottage industry context or otherwise

Unlike you, I have never accepted any cost arising from a vendor's failure to supply what they promised to me, perhaps because I know I don't have to. As many have pointed out here, a simple email or phone call tends to remedy these type of things.

But sometimes they are not remedied and for those that ultimately find their way into a court room, usually where the cost of the return is very significant, as a bare skimming of case law will confirm, the shipping costs are those of the breaching party.

Big people (usually companies) short shrift little people (usually buyers) everyday. That doesn't make it legal or right. It is this fact that is the impetus behind consumer protection legislation, where, because vendors are normally more powerful and resourceful than the consumer, the consumer get even more rights than they would in the common law.

In Yang's case, the common law is a sufficient remedy for him. Consumer protection legislation may give him even more, depending on the states involved.

Harald, stripped of the insults and innuendo, your point is a good one. But its anecdotal, and fortunately 500 hundred years of common law is based on a bigger universe that the limits of your commercial life experience.

Derrick

I'm always amazed at how eloquently some of you can lob insults or counter someone's point/insults. That must be one of the other "dark arts" that are learned when going UL. You don't get this kind of good material at other sites.

Ryan

Gear swap.

List less than perfect gear for high prices, let the fanboys collect them as rare prototypes !

For sale, shelter, missing one tie out so it's lighter than the production version.

For Sale, bug net, improved ventilation while missing material reduces weight.

For Sale, tarp, loose crooked stitching allows customization not normally available.

See ?
–G.B.–

For sale, shelter, missing one tie out so it's lighter than the production version.

For Sale, bug net, improved ventilation while missing material reduces weight.

For Sale, tarp, loose crooked stitching allows customization not normally available.

wow, sounds like it would be lighter weight than what it would be normally… I'll take it!!!

I've never dealt with SMD, but this thread puts several bad tastes in my mouth –

I don't like it that SMD evidently has QC issues. I guess I've worked in QC too long to accept lame excuses like "stuff happens". I wish I had that option in my job.

I don't like the way SMD responded to the issue. Nuff said!

I guess if I want something SMD, I'll pick it up used and let somebody else work the bugs out.

Main issue – After seeing the personal attacks here, I don't dare air any issues with Gear Swap or any Vendor on this site. You guys are really screwing-up getting useful info on a bad experience, which I think others should be warned of.

Only somebody who joined the forum merely to force an issue with a vender. Who is to say the tent was damaged at SMD's end?
Independent venders should remain independent and not be the subject of what really amounts to a shake down. There is way too much attitude going on here to account for losing 20 bucks. Somebody didn't get their way and mom's not there to take care of it…
If you don't buy SMD, you're probably going to pay more for a product of the same or less quality. Stand you're ground though brother, somebody said something once and you're going to limit yourself because of it.
"Fanboy", whatever…As Zorg said, shop at Walmart. They don't really have much, but they have a wonderful return policy, but then you'd probably have to wait in line.

It's a rarity, but I'm with Eric on this one. Have a legitimate issue with a cottage manufacturer, attempt to resolve it offline, get no relief, bring it online, and then watch (some/much) of the UL community get nasty circling the wagons around the cottage manufacturer.

Don't we want to know if tents get sent out with bad sewing, missing guylines, damaged mesh, etc.? Or would we rather attack a buyer who tries every avenue to have his issues concerned?

Parsing return policy language vs. implied whatever vs. legal whatnot misses the heart of the issue completely. Poor workmanship was provided for (a lot of) money, a return with shipping paid was offered in writing, and not followed through on. How quickly a bunch of people (often with little history at BPL) go on personal attack on the buyer is unsettling, and doesn't reflect well on BPL. But I guess if you've only been around here for two months, maybe it's not really a community to you, anyway. Just a place to rant at people on the internet.

Only somebody who joined the forum merely to force an issue with a vender.

another fabrication

mister yang lu joined in 2011, and while not a prolific poster … has asked the normal questions about gear

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/profile?ot=80&u=yanglu#posts

of course im sure some people will say he joined in 2011 and planned to "discredit" their favorite cottage company way in advance ;)

"Only somebody who joined the forum merely to force an issue with a vender."

Right, you are such a long timer Scree…

I liked it better when we had to be a real member to post. (You know, that two week period that everybody hated;-)

Seriously I have not had a single rain-free day yet (on a day off) to seam seal my TT SS2 yet. Maybe I should blame Henry for the weather. But from what I see the tent is great. No torn netting or loose threads.

I return you to your previously scheduled trolls.

Ah all better now – I just love memes!

Kind of a drag, but read the OP first – then post.

Yang screwed up. I know lots of people struggle with that, but hey – Obama got reelected so we know people aren't the brightest sometimes.

Yang screwed up and he doesn't want to admit it. He's done a heck of a good job running a pity thread.

Now after nearly 400 posts it is only natural for a few latecomers to join in castigating the vendor, but seriously – think. Yang screwed up.

If you are implying that Yang screwed up by picking SMD over a reliable company that doesn't have a fourty paragraph return policy design to protect themselves from shoddy quality control && inadequate customer service, then I strongly disagree.

As this thread shows he had no way to know going into the purchase what type of company he was dealing with, because of the BPL culture that loves their favorite companies.

The official Ron/SMD legalese response was eye opening, but ultimately, just like the those of his company, he took back his words.

Perhaps, in light of their policies, SMD gear is best acquired through a reliable third party retailer that has a desire to stay in business.

–G.B.–

I still like you, Zorg

Zorg from Oregon.

Six Moon Designs from Oregon.

Hmmmmmm.

"The official Ron/SMD legalese response was eye opening, but ultimately, just like the those of his company, he took back his words."

+1