Topic

Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD)

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Viewing 25 posts - 326 through 350 (of 416 total)
PostedMay 31, 2013 at 9:31 pm

"But this part makes it sound like you weren't cancelling your order because of quality"

Not becasue of quality? If the quality was good, why would I want to cancel it? I could have already used in my trip. You are talking about your imagination while I am talking about the facts.

"but because you now had time to wait and were willing to do so so you could get the cuben shelter you really wanted."

Can you tell me what made me have time to wait?

Randy, I think the question like yours or something similar had already been repeated/answered by many other members. I do not think it can go any further.

Randy Nelson BPL Member
PostedMay 31, 2013 at 9:53 pm

"But this part makes it sound like you weren't cancelling your order because of quality"

Not becasue of quality? If the quality was good, why would I want to cancel it? I could have already used in my trip. You are talking about your imagination while I am talking about the facts."

If the quality was bad why would you want a cuben version from the same company???

OK, the gloves are off now. :) Trust me, my imagination has a lot better things to do then think about Yang and SMD. (If it doesn't, I'm outsourcing my imagination or putting a 10" stake through my brain.)

No, not because of quality. If the quality was bad, why would you want a cuben version instead?????? That is exactly what you said in the email thread. Or we're you making that up to get your money back? It's one or the other. So which is it? Would you have bought a cuben version in spite of your apparent misgivings about SMD? Or was that total BS?

Your words in the email thread and what you have posted here are contradicatory. Make up your mind on what the issue is.

"but because you now had time to wait and were willing to do so so you could get the cuben shelter you really wanted."

Can you tell me what made me have time to wait?"

I agree that you had a valid issue with the NetTent. If you wanted to return the gear and wait for a cuben version, contact the manufacturer and work that out. But you didn't do that. If you had said: "Hey, I think the quality of this is not something I am satisfied with and I'd like to return it." I'd be on your side. But, "I'd rather cancel my order and wait for a cuben version"? Sorry. You said: "I'd like my money back and I'llbuy cuben later'. Correct? It's in the email thread you posted so saying anything else here won't fly.

"Randy, I think the question like yours or something similar had already been repeated/answered by many other members. I do not think it can go any further."

You accuse me of not being able to ever understand the issue and of me talking about my imagination. And yet you are portayed as poor Yang who is being picked on. I have to say that is well played. I tried to be respectful in my responses but, really, come on.

PostedMay 31, 2013 at 9:59 pm

Randy, I do respect you but your last post made me remember Scree's post. That was why I lost my tamper a bit. So I appologize for that.

Randy Nelson BPL Member
PostedMay 31, 2013 at 10:01 pm

BTW, I'm apologizing in advance for my previous post. Not to Yang, who doesn't deserve it, but for the BPL community for not being able to let 2 insults pass without a negative response.

PostedMay 31, 2013 at 11:22 pm

Being a business owner for me the big issue is the way Ron handled this issue especially in a forum filled with customers. Ron you should have immediately appologized and sent the OP $20.00 for shipping. By not doing so even though it was the right thing to do you lost far far more than $20.00 i promise you there are people who have viewed this post that will skip over your company when looking at gear and that is way more damaging than shipping fees. Hopefully for your sake you take this as a learning experience and respond a little quicker to issues publicly discussed on forums full of your customer. All for a nominal 20.00? Wow

PostedMay 31, 2013 at 11:37 pm

. . . it's all been interesting.

One possible resolution — a coin flip, and let Lady Chance decide.

But everyone ought to get to place bets first; winners split the pot.

PS – My experience with SMD has been excellent. Not to say the OP doesn't have a reasonable point, but it's too complicated for me to figure out without a lot of effort, if then. Seems fair, tho, that everyone can be given slack for at least one $20 mistake in their life (if mistake were made) w/o being judged too harshly.

And now, roll on to page 18.

PostedJun 1, 2013 at 3:33 am

To apologize due to public pressure would be equivalent to lying. I prefer the truth. The man apparently doesn't feel a need to apologize. He wisely bowed out of this pity fest.Me, I'm up early and bored. I've heard the cries over and over. I must be bored. Should of had some of that hot chocolate going around last night.I'd still be in bed.
Get over it, it's over.

PostedJun 1, 2013 at 5:04 am

Scree, do you know what apology is? Ofttimes it has nothing to do with the truth, but rather with allaying bad feelings and allowing other people to keep their dignity, whether or not something is untrue. The truth can be very destructive sometimes, for no gain for anyone, except perhaps for your amusement.

Truth? Who cares if you are bored.

PostedJun 1, 2013 at 5:43 am

An insincere apology would only be a tongue in cheek gimmick to save customer status.
Giving the protester 20 bucks to be quite would amount to a bribe.
Both sides believe that they are right. So be it. While concussions may be in order, or they may not be in order, an apology, unless it is mutual, isn't. This whole thing has been blown way out of proportion with one party wisely retracting his words, while the other has made a career out of it.
I guess the whole lesson here is that life sucks so it's up to us to make it enjoyable. You don't sweat the small stuff. We all have our PP's. We all have our faults. That's what makes it fun.

t.darrah BPL Member
PostedJun 1, 2013 at 5:51 am

I would be happy to pay the $20.00 to both the OP and Ron to see this thread end.

PostedJun 1, 2013 at 6:41 am

I would be happy to pay the $20.00 to both the OP and Ron to see this thread end.

+1, Thom.

I know I just contributed to furthering the inanity of all this by writing something, and I had promised myself to stay away after the halfway point, but I'm so bothered by the sheer pettiness and ugliness of spirit that has been displayed, that I felt I had to say something. This is one of the ugliest threads I've seen on BPL.

PostedJun 1, 2013 at 7:07 am

I think that takes it up to $60, another 20 and I'll apologize. Forty and I'll switch sides.

PostedJun 1, 2013 at 7:14 am

I am not a fanboi of SMD, but like many others here I support and love the cottage industry.

Yang was given the option to return for refund (Net only), he chose to cancel order instead, and on top of that he sent back everything not just the net. Canceling the order gave up his right to a refund for shipping…pretty easy to understand, and clearly explained by Ron.

How is SMD in the wrong again?

Also, anyone that uses the super light no-see-um netting knows that the netting gets "scrunched up" and has many of these little areas that look like holes. They are not holes, you just kind of scratch them with your fingernail and they straighten right out. This is a standard trait of this netting, that's it.

The loose threads look bad, but are nothing more than excess thread that simply needed to be snipped. I see this all the time, especially on Kifaru's VERY expensive tents and while it is annoying maybe I don't care enough to bitch. I simply take a couple of minutes and snip 'em off and thoroughly enjoy the product. I kind of like it in some ways, it tells me it wasn't mass produced by a machine in China.

Either way, SMD did nothing wrong, they were going to refund him for his return, but once he canceled the order he then agreed to not be reimbursed for shipping, cut and dry.

Derrick Whit.e BPL Member
PostedJun 1, 2013 at 7:52 am

Regardless of how inconvenient and undermining the fact may be, there are at least 4 holes in the mesh in that photo. Any position which ignores that fact is based on something other than reality. SMD even accepted the mesh was defective.

We are all entitled to our opinions, but not our own set of facts.

Derrick

PostedJun 1, 2013 at 8:13 am

HW Hiker,

To me, the Brandon's email confirmed pretty clear that it was not Net only. But you could think of other way becasue that was your perception.

A few people offered $20 to me. Again, I appreciate that. One thing you probably did not notice was I had not posted for quite a long time. My membership in this forum has already expired. I had to pay to renew the membership in order to make this single post. If you still think I have been fighting for $20. At least, money wise, I won't gain anything.

So why I made this post? I have mentioned in my first a few posts. All what I wanted to do was to share my personal shopping experience, which was not satisfied by myself and hope you have better experience than me. If you (or anybody) think I made a mistake, use your judgement to decide what mistake I made and avoid that in future. Consider this is my best wish.

I and (I believe) most of people constantly browse this forum to make gear decisions. That was why I like this forum. I completely have no intent to use it to BS or take advatage to any sellers here. I actually had a good will at the beginning to offer to buy a more expensive product from the seller. If nothing went wrong, this was supposed to be my third tent.

Anyway hope you enjoy the weekend.

PostedJun 1, 2013 at 8:13 am

"Also, anyone that uses the super light no-see-um netting knows that the netting gets "scrunched up" and has many of these little areas that look like holes. They are not holes, you just kind of scratch them with your fingernail and they straighten right out. This is a standard trait of this netting, that's it."

Now that makes a lot more sense then the story as it was presented. My eyes aren't that great, but I thought the "holes" were light reflections. There was no logical reasoning behind an industry that relies almost solely on it's reputation sending out what was represented as a grossly inferior product. So far they have not admitted to doing so. All we have for evidence are some photographs that really show nothing.
We are dealing with lightweight products made in small factories. We are also dealing with individuals, not conglomerates, not the man, but people.

PostedJun 1, 2013 at 8:25 am

^^^^^^

With that comment above,This post has officially become chaff material.

Reflections. HA

Ken Thompson BPL Member
PostedJun 1, 2013 at 9:04 am

Oh sure, now you guys want an active Chaff forum.

So fickle.

Oh yeah, There are a few people here after reading this thread that I would love to hike with.

James holden BPL Member
PostedJun 1, 2013 at 9:30 am

So if theres a complaint that many here consider legitimate about a favorite cottage manufacturer … BPLer want it "sent to chaff" …

After insulting the complainer of course and denying any issues

Thats how it works ;)

PostedJun 1, 2013 at 11:38 am

Just wanted to note something, apparently we have some keyboard lawyers here who are fond of making up laws re contracts etc. It's been stated repeatedly that if a product arrives defective, the company is bound by some law to do x or y, x or y being invisible to me in any other non cottage industry online dealings I've ever had, but apparently clear to those posters who talk about contracts and law and so on.

Here's how it works outside this thread in my experience, which is sadly fairly extensive because one of the hats I've worn for years is computer repair/system administration, which always involves ordering parts online, which in turn always involves RMAs, since parts always fail at a certain percentage (ie, order 10 hard drives, and one, if you are lucky, will be rma'ed immediately), ie, returns of failed or defective merchandise. I have never seen any company I've dealt with offer to pay my shipping for a defective item, although they generally always pay their resending of course, so whoever keeps repeating that needs to get a reality check. If the company explicitly says they will, great, but I've never seen that myself in over 10 years of online ordering. So give it a rest, it's fine to make up stuff so you can sound like you have some idea of whatever, but try to be aware that is all that is going on.

I don't have any hat in this game at all, and I really like cottage industry, at least I like cottage industry that makes their stuff locally with people directly under their control. Companies that chose to outsource their production, or parts of it, to cut costs and boost profits, not so much, I can't tell any difference between them and any other company that outsources production, like eureka, rei, northface, or whatever. Hats off again to those who don't, tarptent, for the time being, western mountaineering, enlightenment, zpacks, mld I assume.

If you don't believe me re reality, check out the largest retailers online, newegg.com for example. Try ordering from amazon and then see about getting free shipping for returns. Some places do it, but most do not. I ordered some shoes from a newbalance place, they did not fit, I returned them, shipping cost me almost as much as the shoes had. I didn't whine or complain because I understand how this business works more or less.

Stepping back from such pretend contracts and keyboard lawyers, I would note that Ron totally and utterly blew it in any business sense, advertising isn't cheap and goodwill is very hard to develop in these communities, and there is absolutely no way his method should serve as anything other than a clear case of how not to handle customer disputes for any other cottage industry people out there, I'd read this thread very carefully as a classic example of just how quickly good will can turn to poisoned will in an online virtual community, any one, I've seen that happen more times in more contexts than I can remember over the years, and once you lose that good will, you really never get it back. So on a business level, trying to demonstrate being 'right' was a totally idiotic strategy for ron to take, just absolutely stupid, one of the stupidest things I've seen any cottage industry guy do. All he had to do was swallow hard, immediately apologize, you can lie in an email, you don't have to be honest, just say, wow, I am so very sorry for this error/ mixup, let me instantly refund that shipping cost to you, and maybe send a small stuff sack or something. For those 30 dollars, this thread would never have happened, no good will would have been lost, and nothing would have happened to smd beyond losing 20 bucks.

This is particularly important because the customer posted pictures of the shoddy stitching, bunched up seam, and defective screen, which is really a very very bad thing to have people see, it's absolutely certain that ron has lost a lot of business and money from this very bad handling of the situation. I can understand getting annoyed at customers who appear to be trying to sort of play it both ways, but if you were wrong to start with, ie, delivered defective merchandise, then you should just eat it no matter how annoying it is. It would be different if the OP had only tried to return the stuff because he changed his mind, but that's not the case, there were defects.

Treat this, all current and future cottage people, as a great example of how not to run your business if you want to achieve long term success.

PostedJun 1, 2013 at 11:41 am

I've had both Campsaver and Moontrail refund my shipping for errors on their part. Of course, they have my business for life.

Viewing 25 posts - 326 through 350 (of 416 total)
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