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Upright Canister Stove Reviews, StoveBench Tests, and Gear Guide


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Home Forums Campfire Editor’s Roundtable Upright Canister Stove Reviews, StoveBench Tests, and Gear Guide

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 146 total)
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  • #3592764
    Backpacking Light
    Admin

    @backpackinglight

    Locale: Rocky Mountains

    Companion forum thread to: Upright Canister Stove Reviews, StoveBench Tests, and Gear Guide

    This article features upright canister stove reviews that include extensive test data in inclement conditions and market analysis.

    #3592784
    Edward John M
    BPL Member

    @moondog55

    I get that Ryan but being primarily a winter walker and ski-tourer who normally cooks in the vestibule [ it always seems to be bad weather when I go out] CO is important to me. Looking forward to the CO test results then

    #3592799
    James Marco
    BPL Member

    @jamesdmarco

    Locale: Finger Lakes

    Edward, you can eliminate the lower brass not on the FMS-300t and simply use a drop of superglue on the lower threads. You can also cut the upper nut in half with a hack saw. After cleaning it up, it will work fine to keep the pot holders on.

    #3592811
    Jon Fong
    BPL Member

    @jonfong

    Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR

    I actually teach a product development class and give advice on how to compare competition.  Using your numbers, you can create a Price / Performance Chart for a visual representation of you findings.

    The black dashed line represents the linear regression of all the data points.  The unusual thing about your data is that the traditional linear regression starts at the lower left and goes towards the upper right hand side.  Normally you look for products that are above the line, the further away, the better the value.  Your linear regression is pretty darn flat, I believe that this is due to the BRS & eTekCity as well as the Kovea products.  Given your data, the Fire Maple  FMS-116t looks like a good value as well.  My 2 cents.

    BTW, what happened to the SovebBench Metric F?

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by matthew k.
    #3592859
    David Wiese
    BPL Member

    @dtothewiese

    Why does the Amicus have its weight listed as a disadvantage, but the PR Deluxe (which weighs more) does not?

    And why use the heavier 4-pot stand version of the Windmaster instead of the triflex?

    #3592876
    Edward John M
    BPL Member

    @moondog55

    Edward, you can eliminate the lower brass not on the FMS-300t and simply use a drop of superglue on the lower threads. You can also cut the upper nut in half with a hack saw. After cleaning it up, it will work fine to keep the pot holders on.

     

    Query?

    James I have no idea what you are talking about there

    #3592885
    James Marco
    BPL Member

    @jamesdmarco

    Locale: Finger Lakes

    Edward, there are two rather heavy brass nuts on the FMS-300t. The lower one can be removed. Simply use superglue (or “Locktight”) on the threads. The upper nut can be (carefully) cut in half using a plain old hacksaw. It is relatively soft. (The nut holds the pot holder in place, on the stove.) Saves about a quarter to a half an ounce.

     

    #3592886
    David Thomas
    BPL Member

    @davidinkenai

    Locale: North Woods. Far North.

    Ryan, I’d advocate for testing and disclosure of CO results.

    1. It’s hard to do on one’s own and therefore adds a lot of value for readers / subscribers.
    2. CO emissions are one indicator of inefficiency.  Complete combustion to H2O and CO2 releases more energy than stopping at CO (CO has energy content and in some processes is viewed as a fuel itself).
    3. Even if you’re not in a tent / snow cave, everything else being equal, we’d all pick a stove with lower CO emissions, right?
    4. Even if you don’t *plan* on cooking in a tent / cabin / car / snow cave, circumstances and weather changes and you do what you have to.  Lower CO emissions is always better.
    5. On the basis of no empirical data but on decades of working professionally and recreationally with combustion devices and their emissions, I strongly suspect CO emissions correlate closely to unburned hydrocarbon emissions – another measure of inefficiency.
    6. If publication and dissemination of CO emissions causes any manufacturer to redesign their stoves for more complete combustion, you’ll be reducing mortality and morbidity far beyond BPL’s readership.
    #3592907
    Edward John M
    BPL Member

    @moondog55

    James I would be very worried that changing the distance between the jet and the burner head would alter the burning characteristics and lead to great CO production. It is only 20mm high would  cutting those nuts in half change the gas path length? Also I thought they had a job to do in acting as a heat sink to warm the combustion mix. Mine certainly seems to burn better when it warms up.

    No way I would use SuperGlue on anything that gets this hot, when it reaches its critical temperature it degrades and releases cyanide gas

    #3592914
    Bill in Roswell
    BPL Member

    @roadscrape88-2

    Locale: Roswell, GA, USA

    What a great pleasure to read such a concise report on stoves!

    Like many on BPL, I use different stoves for different situations. But there is one old one I wish could be thrown into the mix: Coleman F1 ultralight, ultra-powerful at a reported 16,000 BTU. Yet there is decent simmer control. The down side being if you run anywhere near full throttle it will suck through the gas and emit a lot of CO2 – IMHO as I don’t have a sensor to measure it.

    FWIW, I use an Amicus regularly but still haul out the old F1 for grins.

    Cheers,
    Bill in Roswell

     

    #3592937
    James Marco
    BPL Member

    @jamesdmarco

    Locale: Finger Lakes

    Yeah, I had an old F1 that really went thru gas quickly.  It took about 3oz of so to so a breakfast for a family of 4. WOW  (Coffee, bacon, eggs, toasted/rolled wraps w/oil.) I gave it away and went back to the SVEA that only took 2oz of WG for the same meal. It was a very inefficient stove, but worked well enough.

     

    #3592938
    Paul in Texas
    BPL Member

    @hiking8388

    Locale: North Texas

    Jon Fong – Just for fun, your post made me curious to dig a little deeper into the price vs performance data.  As consumers, we all expect performance to increase with price.  But your graph made me wonder if these various manufactures were delivering on that expectation.  So I made a similar Performance vs Price graph, but only included those manufactures that had more than one product in this comparison.  I found the results interesting …

    MSR seems to understand the concept.

    SOTO sort of gets it (except for the fact that the cheapest Fire-Maple stove outperforms their most expensive stove … kind of a bummer if you’re SOTO).

    Looks like the other three manufactures need to attend your class :-)

     

    #3592940
    James Marco
    BPL Member

    @jamesdmarco

    Locale: Finger Lakes

    Edward, skip it, then. The mod doesn’t change anything. It just lightens the stove.  I guess my stove doesn’t get that hot at the bottom of the stem (air inlets are above it and Ti doesn’t conduct heat well.) I usually scrape off a bit of weight on all my stoves.

     

    #3592956
    Gary Dunckel
    BPL Member

    @zia-grill-guy

    Locale: Boulder

    Well, this article was certainly worth waiting for, guys. I think it covers most all aspects of the use of canister stoves. Aside from a few typos, I think it was a well thought out and thorough presentation of all things relating to canister stovedom. Well, except for the CO analysis, which we will look forward to reading in the future.

    I don’t mean to be picky, but I think that the rating of the BRS-3000T was a bit brutal. In calm conditions I have been able to achieve a decent simmer, and I’ve not had any quality issues after boiling over 100 times with my Jetboil Sol pot and my pot riser disk. Perhaps it’s a quality control issue, wherein some of those stoves are made differently? I suspect that it could relate to user technique (like burning with a  high valve setting).

    The other point I’d like to make is that the user’s technique could easily skew the results. For example, I love the performance of my FMS-116T, especially for its superb simmering ability (and its weight). The rap on this stove seemed to be its inability to support larger pots on uneven ground. I will grant you that, but I use smaller pots, and I can always find a pretty flat place to set my stove/canister. So in this case, the “downsides” of this stove don’t pertain to my uses.

    All in all, this was a fine article!

    #3592974
    Ryan Jordan
    Admin

    @ryan

    Locale: Central Rockies

    The BRS scored pretty high, so you can’t really ignore the performance for its cost and weight.

    But there is clearly something going on with manufacturing in its current version.

    I have a BRS that’s about 5 years old that’s still going strong.

    But the metal in today’s production runs just isn’t holding up. It’s not unique to BRS, the same parts are failing on some other stoves that we purchased from China as well. Same parts supplier, perhaps.

    For one of the failures, I had a pot of nearly boiled water fall over when a pot support melted. That’s a safety problem, especially when this stove is being used by kids (this is a popular stove among youth groups like scouts because of its price).

    Fix this issue, and the stove gets a different rating.

    #3592977
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    anecdotally, a number of people have reported problems with BRS 3000.  Especially initial failures.  Also like Ryan said – maybe don’t operate at max power.

    The fact that it’s so short means you save weight, it works great with Mulder strip, but the valve gets hotter.  Theoretically, I haven’t measured it.

    Only on BPL would someone cut a nut in half to save weight – I like the idea of it

    My Coleman F1 started leaking gas.  If I left it screwed to canister overnight and it got cold, in the morning all the fuel was gone.  Even when I really torqued it down in the evening.  Also, it leaked during use and created flames, which I quickly blew out, then screwed it on harder.  Maybe this was just that one unit or maybe I precipitated the problems by not screwing it on tight enough, then flames melted something which damaged it…

    #3592978
    Chris R
    BPL Member

    @bothwell-voyageur

    An interesting study.

    I’m an alcohol stove user mostly so I don’t really have a horse in this race though I do have one of the very early Snow Peak Giga Power 2 Ti stoves with no igniter along with one of the GSI stoves that I had to buy due to a ban on alky stoves during a trip to Banff last summer. I always use a MYOG windshield with these stoves so maybe I would factor wind resistance lower than your scoring system.

    How robust is your scoring system to changes in the loading of each of the properties?

    When you did the stability test in what orientation were the pot supports to the direction the stove was being tipped? This could potentially be more important with the stoves with three supports and not four.

    Just a note on Jon’s and Paul’s graphs. I’m not sure that trying to put a linear regression line though that data is a great idea. I’m only a reluctant user of stats so maybe I have some of this wrong.First of the sample size at either end of the range is way lower than at the centre, I think you could do some fancy manipulation of the numbers to fix that that but not as stands. More importantly I think that as the performance scores feature price as part of the score plotting the two things against each other creates problems. Maybe try taking out the price component from the score?

    Paul’s graph is interesting but I wish folk would suppress the urge to plot lines between data points without any evidence to support that line.

    I don’t know how the MSRP is decided by a manufacturer. Maybe MSR are just better at evaluating what is the optimum pricing to sell at compared to an overseas company?

    #3592980
    Patrick Podenski
    BPL Member

    @patpodenski

    Thanks for your excellent stove review article!

     

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by matthew k.
    #3592997
    John
    BPL Member

    @johnnyh88

    Locale: The SouthWest

    I purchased my BRS 3000T stove shortly after Roger published his article on it. It worked fine for intermittent use over several months (I loved the diminutive weight and size), but eventually the pot supports began warping and it became too unstable to use. Definitely not user error for me…I primarily ran the stove at med-low flame, and never above medium. Only ever boiled 2 cups of water. Something was wrong with the quality of the supports, wouldn’t waste my money on another one.

    #3592998
    Ken Larson
    BPL Member

    @kenlarson

    Locale: Western Michigan

    Great Job by the THREE of you concerning the StoveBench Investigation!

     

    #3593023
    Paul in Texas
    BPL Member

    @hiking8388

    Locale: North Texas

    Chris R – As indicated … my post was “Just for fun”.  Of course, your mileage may vary :-)

    Jerry Adams – You may be interested in my post https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/7791/ … which I now realize is from 12 years ago … which is making me feel older than I felt five minutes ago :-(

    BPL Team – Thanks (indeed) for the excellent article!

    #3593043
    rubmybelly!
    BPL Member

    @sleeping

    Locale: The Cascades

    Quite a comprehensive review, thanks. Getting more of these kinds of things lately, much appreciated overall.

    This line in this review cracked me up: Carbon monoxide emissions from stoves can cause some physiological problems such as death.

     

    #3593081
    Chris R
    BPL Member

    @bothwell-voyageur

    Sorry Paul in Texas, I guess I am still traumatised from time spent building GEE models for my Master’s degree :-)

     

    #3593150
    Five Star
    BPL Member

    @mammoman

    Locale: NE AL

    That article is the shizz I do like.  Much respect.  Hikin’ Jim’s stove blog led me to the Soto Windmaster a couple of years ago, so props to him for that too.

    #3593269
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Last week I pushed these 3 through some vigorous testing. O rings held up nicely.

     

    Wire shutoff valves get hot. left a burn mark on my finger…..won’t do that again :-)

     

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