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Upright Canister Stove Reviews, StoveBench Tests, and Gear Guide


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Home Forums Campfire Editor’s Roundtable Upright Canister Stove Reviews, StoveBench Tests, and Gear Guide

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 146 total)
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  • #3596912
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    All good information…..thank you!

    I quote Ryan:

    But the metal in today’s production runs just isn’t holding up. It’s not unique to BRS, the same parts are failing on some other stoves that we purchased from China as well. Same parts supplier, perhaps.

    For one of the failures, I had a pot of nearly boiled water fall over when a pot support melted. That’s a safety problem, especially when this stove is being used by kids (this is a popular stove among youth groups like scouts because of its price).

    Fix this issue, and the stove gets a different rating.

    #3596934
    Eric Blumensaadt
    BPL Member

    @danepacker

    Locale: Mojave Desert

    Very interesting article and well-documented data.

    I have used an Optimus/Brunton CRUX folding canister-top stove for about a decade and have found it to be a very reliable stove which has a nicely wide burner to avoid hot spots.

    For an ounce or so weight savings I’m not rushing out to buy another stove and I do not need or want a built in sparker.

    I’m toying with some sheet roofing aluminum for a better windscreen than my current pie pan version. Sooner or later I’ll come up with one that works well and stores small.

    #3596938
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Ryan reported 4 out of seven “melting”

    “The BRS 3000t is impossibly small and impossibly light and actually performs fairly well (its overall StoveBench score is only slightly below average). But this stove has a long history of malfunction.

    The problem is that the pot supports simply don’t hold up under extended heat (due to poorly hardened metal parts). We’d heard anecdotal evidence (we suggest you read our extensive forum conversationsabout this stove) but didn’t want to believe it until we replicated the malfunction ourselves. The pot supports on our first sample melted. And the pot supports on our second sample melted. In fact, the pot supports on 4 of 7 of our samples melted. Yes, we were so curious about this that we purchased 7 of them. You’re welcome.”

    Red Alerts GIF - RedAlerts GIFs

    But the metal in today’s production runs just isn’t holding up. It’s not unique to BRS, the same parts are failing on some other stoves that we purchased from China as well. Same parts supplier, perhaps.

    For one of the failures, I had a pot of nearly boiled water fall over when a pot support melted. That’s a safety problem, <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>especially when this stove is being used by kids (this is a popular stove among youth groups like scouts because of its price).</span>

    Fix this issue, and the stove gets a different rating.

     

    #3596940
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Ryan wrote ‘melted’, but I suspect what he meant was ‘deformed so the support collapsed’. You just can’t melt titanium with a propane flame in air.

    Unless whoever actually does the stamping and forming (for several ‘manufacturers’) has substituted a totally different metal for the titanium. But I think that is unlikely.

    Cheers

    #3596974
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Roger, I quote Ryan again and point out the the water he was attempting to boil had not reached the boil yet and the pot support failed and the pot of water fell over. Length of time being heated could not have been more than 4-5 min. This is some really serious stuff. Again….4 out of 7 melted. Red flags are going up ;)

    For one of the failures, I had a pot of nearly boiled water fall over when a pot support melted. That’s a safety problem, especially when this stove is being used by kids

    #3596981
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Hi Dan

    Please do not misunderstand me! I agree totally that this is a very bad thing, a very dangerous thing. The current crop of BRS-3000T stoves are clearly not fit for use.

    All I was trying to do was to figure out just what had happened. And to point out that a titanium pot support could not have actually melted in a propane/air flame. Softened and sagged, in a very dangerous way, certainly.

    Sad, really.

    Cheers

    #3597066
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Roger, even softening and sagging I don’t envision that happening.

    It would behove one of the three that did the testing, Andrew Marshall, Ryan Jordan, or Chase Jordan, to report their findings to The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC). It’s in the best interest of the entire backpacking comunities around the world. 4 0ut of 7 melting is absolutely terrible. They can contact the (CPSC) at: https://www.saferproducts.gov/Default.aspx

    Here is the form to fill out:

    https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPublic/Incidents/ReportIncident.aspx

    The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) protects the public from unreasonable risks of serious injury or death from thousands of types of consumer products under its jurisdiction, including products that pose a fire, electrical, chemical, or mechanical hazard or can injure children.

    The current crop of BRS-3000T need to be removed from sales all over the world. They are a danger of the largest magnatude. As Roger has clearly stated: “The current crop of BRS-3000T stoves are clearly not fit for use.”

    Hopfully, Andrew Marshall, Ryan Jordan, or Chase Jordan, will report their findings to The Consumer Product Safety Commission.

     

     

     

     

    #3597069
    James Marco
    BPL Member

    @jamesdmarco

    Locale: Finger Lakes

    Yeah, well, keep it on the QT. They don’t really want to let it be known very loudly… We all do not so safe things, but, I agree about the BRS-3000.

     

    #3597083
    Jacob Craner
    BPL Member

    @remit-2

    The BRS-3000 is the lightest by a mile, and functions just fine if used as I assume it was originally designed:  To boil 2 cups of water in a reasonable amount of time.

    I run mine with a 550 cup at 1/3 fuel (it’s more efficient this way anyways) without issue.

    #3597101
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    What we really need is a good photo of a failed BRS-3000T and the pot supports. Just give me one photo and I should be able to tell what happened.

    Cheers

    #3597110
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Roger, can you get in touch with Ryan, Chase or Andrew and ask them to take some photos of the 4 that failed out of the 7 they tested? Those are the ones we really want to see.

    They indicated that they purchased the 7 just so they could test for failures.

     

    #3597115
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Ryan

    Can we get a photo of the failed BRS-3000T and the pot supports please? There has been a lot of discussion about this one stove in your stove review, partly because a propane/air flame can NOT melt titanium – but it can soften it enough for it to bend.

    Cheers, Roger

    #3597249
    David Wiese
    BPL Member

    @dtothewiese

    Roger,

    I’d also like clarification on why the Amicus’ weight is listed as a disadvantage, while the PR Deluxe (which weighs more) has no such disadvantage listed. Seems very misleading. It makes the entire article seem like a PR Deluxe advertisement.

    #3597264
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    My own personal opinion is that the whole Pocket Rocket series have a bad design. The original has thin bendy pot supports which failed and a cutting torch flame, and the follow-ons are only very slowly improving. There are many much better and sometimes cheaper stoves available from elsewhere.

    But to your question – you would have to ask the authors.

    Cheers

    #3597314
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Roger, are the authors ok? They are not responding to questions. Can you email them and check in on them please. Maybe they had a mishap in the back country.

    #3597334
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    I have already emailed Ryan, but it can take some time…

    Cheers

    #3597423
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Thank you Roger. Hope they are ok.

    Here is some important information given by “Adventures In Stoving” concerning the safety hazards of the BRS3000T, I quote Hikin’ Jim:

    I put approximately 750 ml (three cups) of water into the pot, fired it up, and waited.  And waited.  And waited.  And waited.  After about 10 minutes the water came to a low boil.  The stove was not able to achieve a full roiling boil.  I had heard that a BRS-3000T would struggle in wind, but I had no idea it would be this bad.  All open burner upright canister stoves are impacted by wind, but I have <i>never</i> seen a stove this wind sensitive before.  Even at highest output it could not bring 750 ml of water to a roiling boil, and this was not a particularly windy day.  I would describe the winds as moderate.  I had to put a weight on my ramen noodle wrapper to keep it from flying away, but it wasn’t like cups were being pushed over by the wind, and the trees around me were not blowing way over or anything like that.  These were pretty ordinary, common outdoor conditions, conditions that I probably wouldn’t even take particular note of normally.

    Well, I was hungry, so I put my noodles in, and, after a bit… what the heck?  Did I put the pot on wrong or something?  My pot was clearly listing to one side like a sinking ship!
    My Evernew 1300 ml pot – canted off to one side atop a BRS-3000T</td>

    Quickly, I grabbed my pot before my lunch took a tumble!  Examining the stove, I realized that the pot support had bent.  It may be a little hard to see here, but the pot support on the right in the below photo is bent outward and down with a slight twist.
    <
    <
    Note the bend and partial twist in the pot support on the right.

    All I had in the pot was about 750 ml of water and some ramen noodles.  I mean c’mon, that is a very normal load for a stove.  If I had put a 3 liter pot on a little stove like this maybe I’d understand, but 750 ml?  That’s trivial.  A stove should be able to handle 750 freaking little milliliters.  750 ml is only 0.75 kg (1.7 lbs).  <b>Do <i>not</i> get distracted by the pot size.</b>  This is not a pot size issue.  Read the Analysis section below.  The real issue in this case is the wind and the design of the stove.

    Yes, I tested the stove on <i>top</i> of the picnic table.  Yes, it would have been better to set it on the ground behind a rock or something, but c’mon!  I ought to at least be able to boil water after 10 minutes on high.  This stove is a really poor performer in wind, and there certainly shouldn’t have been any deformation in the pot supports after 10 to 12 minutes.
    The pot supports of a BRS-3000T are exposed to a great deal of heat.
    <

    Remember that photo I posted earlier?  The pot supports absorb a <i>lot</i> of heat from the flame.  After 10 minutes on high, they had absorbed enough heat that the pot supports deformed even though they weren’t under a particularly heavy load.

    <b>Analysis</b>
    I noticed during use that the wind was blowing the flame toward the pot support that eventually failed.  Said pot support was glowing brightly while the pot support opposite was barely affected. So much heat was channeled into the one pot support that even under a relatively light load of less than a kilogram, the pot support experienced “creep deformation” (or “creep failure”), the tendency of a metal to slowly deform under stress – a tendency that increases when both stress and heat are present.

    The way that the flame and supports are configured, the pot supports are blasted with heat.  Magnify that effect with wind directing the majority of the heat to a single pot support, and you get creep deformation.  Yes, I realize that 10 to 12 minutes is a little long to be running a stove, but, it’s not a grossly unreasonable time to run a stove, particularly in wind.  A stove shouldn’t deform due to its own flame in such a short time.  The stove should not have been designed such that the pot supports are blasted with heat – or they should have been made a little more heat resistant.  Remember that photo I posted of the flame?  Most stoves don’t have that kind of discoloration in the flame.  There’s something peculiar about this stove and its design.

     

    Read more:  https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-brs-3000t-worlds-lightest-stove.html

    Jim also reports of Failures #2 and #3:

    https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/brs-3000t-failure-2.html

    https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/brs-3000t-another-failure.html

    Combine Jim’s information with Ryan’s, file a report to the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) would certainly “fix the problem”

    https://www.usa.gov/federal-agencies/consumer-product-safety-commission

    #3597467
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Jim’s blog mentions another user Miguel:
    Miguel reports that he just bent the pot supports back after the stove cooled and went on his way.

    That is very revealing. You can NOT do that with a good high-strength titanium alloy such as 6Al4V, but you could do it with plain CP titanium. Unfortunately, CP Ti has a service temperature hundreds of degrees C below that of, say, 6Al4V.

    So I will stick with my idea that someone changed the good Ti alloy they were using at the start to CP titanium without realising the consequences. After all, some of us who bought early versions of the BRS-3000T have been using them for years without a problem. The early models are fine.

    Side comment: trying to use a small canister stove without a windscreen is just silly. Big waste of gas. Sorry if anyone is offended, but I will stand by that comment as well, based on lots of experience.

    Cheers

    #3597474
    obx hiker
    BPL Member

    @obxer

    Boy this is a hot topic  ;)

    I’m seriously amazed at the skill, knowledge and experience so often displayed on this blog!

    #3597748
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    <span style=”font-weight: 400;”>When we read the comment Ryan made about his stove and pot falling from the picnic table due to the failing stove (   ) and look at the photo of the failing stove on Jim’s picnic table where the pot is just about to slip off makes us think of how many children will be hurt because of failing BRS3000T stoves. Jim is lucky his daughter was not hurt from the failing stove, Jim’s daughter, photo from Jim’s Adventures in Stoving:</span>

     

    <span style=”font-weight: 400;”>If a pot of boiling water falls onto one of our children, our thoughts will go directly to them and the pot and stove will fall from the picnic table onto the ground that has leaf litter which will catch fire and the wind will blow the burning debri into the sage brush which will catch fire and in turn work it’s way to a forest and the forest will catch fire. The western states are prone to raging fires during the hot summer/fall months. Ryan…….please file a report to the proper government agency.</span>

    #3598024
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Yes, I’m still concerned about the failures Ryan reported so I quote James Marco, his comment from the Companion forum thread to: Podcast 011 | Canister Stove Reviews</span>

    Too bad the BRS-3000 is such low quality. While I never bought one, I appreciate the unreliability report. Over 50% support structure failure (4 out of 7) is simply unacceptable. Nice to know. As you said, a failure in the field could be dangerous. To me, this is enough to fail the stove let alone put it at the top of the list.

    #3598033
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    Its been reported, that the BRS 3000T pot stand legs of some units will melt and bend after prolonged use.
    Well, they don’t really melt, they overheat and slowly bend under the weight of a full pot of water and food.
    This doesn’t happen in a single sitting, it tends to happen over repeated overuses.

    The reports all seem to have a few things in common: long burn times combined with heavy loads of water or food. For example, cooking up a large pot of rice for 20 minutes.

    from https://ultralightoutside.com/brs-3000t-review/

    Independent confirmation of my suspicion: the pot supports do NOT melt; they just soften and sag. The good alloy was replaced by something of poorer quality.

    Cheers

    #3598042
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Well Ryan has some pretty hot stoves in his StoveBench Tests. Ryan has been around for as long as we can remember and his description says “melt” He knows something we don’t or else he would have been here to tell us. :-) It must be something about his method of testing with the stove valves wide open, don’t know. We are hoping he will join in on the conversation, show us some photos and explain his comments. Hikin Jim’s photos were interesting and showed there is very disturbing accident prone stove out there that should be taken off the market until the flawed pot supports are resolved. 4 out of 7 is not acceptable.

    #3598047
    Roger Caffin
    BPL Member

    @rcaffin

    Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe

    his description says “melt”
    I will simply repeat: you can NOT melt titanium with a propane/air flame. But you can soften it.

    Cheers

    #3598048
    Jerry Adams
    BPL Member

    @retiredjerry

    Locale: Oregon and Washington

    ” do NOT melt; they just soften and sag.”

    Twin Towers in 2001

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