Upright Canister Stove Reviews, StoveBench Tests, and Gear Guide

[Roger Caffin]

The originals had titanium pot support arms, and they were reliable. I have used one for years. It sounds as though BRS have changed the metal used to something cheaper. Sad.

Cheers

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Even if they used cheaper metal, I don’t envision a canister stove melting a pot support.

Ryan reported 4 out of seven “melting”

“The BRS 3000t is impossibly small and impossibly light and actually performs fairly well (its overall StoveBench score is only slightly below average). But this stove has a long history of malfunction.

The problem is that the pot supports simply don’t hold up under extended heat (due to poorly hardened metal parts). We’d heard anecdotal evidence (we suggest you read our extensive forum conversationsabout this stove) but didn’t want to believe it until we replicated the malfunction ourselves. The pot supports on our first sample melted. And the pot supports on our second sample melted. In fact, the pot supports on 4 of 7 of our samples melted. Yes, we were so curious about this that we purchased 7 of them. You’re welcome.”

[Roger Caffin]

Even if they used cheaper metal, I don’t envision a canister stove melting a pot support.

Here I have to disagree with you. I am currently testing some new stove designs, and I am finding that it is quite possible to melt some metals with the flames from a canister stove.

I will quote from sciencing.com:

While propane-oxygen combinations can reach a maximum temperature of 3,623 degrees F, or 1,995 degrees C, a propane-butane torch only goes up to 2237 degrees F, 1225 degrees C.

Ignore the 1995 C figures: that is for a propane/oxygen mix, not for a propane/air mix. We must use the second set of figures. We all know what has happened to the heat exchanger fins on some Jetboil pots, don’t we? Yeah, they melted.

Now Ti 6Al4V alloy has a melting point of about 1900 C, which is a lot hotter than 1225 C. But pure titanium (CP) is not as good as that: it is only about 1668 C. The alloying improves things for pots and aerospace.

However, while Ti is wonderful, that is not the full story. When Ti gets red hot (I think that is about 800 C) it enters a ‘super-plastic’ phase, where it can bend, deform and flow quite well. That is how you shape high-strength Ti alloys: at red heat. I have done this myself a number of times.

In fact, the ‘maximum service temperature’ for Ti 6Al4V is as low as about 650 C. This is in the region of what is conventionally called ‘red heat’, which is 500 – 790 C. That is easily reached with a propane torch.

There is a secondary factor here. Ti 6Al4V alloy is expensive, but ‘CP: commercial purity’ Ti, is not as expensive. It is also a LOT easier to form or shape. Bend sheet 6Al4V cold and it will likely crack; bend CP Ti cold and it will bend nicely. Been there, done a lot of that!

You may be able now to see what I am suggesting. Some silly manager at BRS decided that they could use a cheaper version of titanium, and one that is easier to work, and get away with it. A brilliant bit of management innovation, but with very sad results.

Cheers
PS: and aluminium pot supports are especially dicey!

[James Marco]

Yeah, it is not so much of an actual melt (it doesn’t just turn into a blob of metal,) it deforms badly while pretty much retaining it’s overall shape…  Yes, aluminum is not real good at pot stands!

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

All good information…..thank you!

I quote Ryan:

But the metal in today’s production runs just isn’t holding up. It’s not unique to BRS, the same parts are failing on some other stoves that we purchased from China as well. Same parts supplier, perhaps.

For one of the failures, I had a pot of nearly boiled water fall over when a pot support melted. That’s a safety problem, especially when this stove is being used by kids (this is a popular stove among youth groups like scouts because of its price).

Fix this issue, and the stove gets a different rating.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Very interesting article and well-documented data.

I have used an Optimus/Brunton CRUX folding canister-top stove for about a decade and have found it to be a very reliable stove which has a nicely wide burner to avoid hot spots.

For an ounce or so weight savings I’m not rushing out to buy another stove and I do not need or want a built in sparker.

I’m toying with some sheet roofing aluminum for a better windscreen than my current pie pan version. Sooner or later I’ll come up with one that works well and stores small.

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Ryan reported 4 out of seven “melting”

“The BRS 3000t is impossibly small and impossibly light and actually performs fairly well (its overall StoveBench score is only slightly below average). But this stove has a long history of malfunction.

The problem is that the pot supports simply don’t hold up under extended heat (due to poorly hardened metal parts). We’d heard anecdotal evidence (we suggest you read our extensive forum conversationsabout this stove) but didn’t want to believe it until we replicated the malfunction ourselves. The pot supports on our first sample melted. And the pot supports on our second sample melted. In fact, the pot supports on 4 of 7 of our samples melted. Yes, we were so curious about this that we purchased 7 of them. You’re welcome.”

But the metal in today’s production runs just isn’t holding up. It’s not unique to BRS, the same parts are failing on some other stoves that we purchased from China as well. Same parts supplier, perhaps.

For one of the failures, I had a pot of nearly boiled water fall over when a pot support melted. That’s a safety problem, <span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>especially when this stove is being used by kids (this is a popular stove among youth groups like scouts because of its price).</span>

Fix this issue, and the stove gets a different rating.

 

[Roger Caffin]

Ryan wrote ‘melted’, but I suspect what he meant was ‘deformed so the support collapsed’. You just can’t melt titanium with a propane flame in air.

Unless whoever actually does the stamping and forming (for several ‘manufacturers’) has substituted a totally different metal for the titanium. But I think that is unlikely.

Cheers

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Roger, I quote Ryan again and point out the the water he was attempting to boil had not reached the boil yet and the pot support failed and the pot of water fell over. Length of time being heated could not have been more than 4-5 min. This is some really serious stuff. Again….4 out of 7 melted. Red flags are going up ;)

For one of the failures, I had a pot of nearly boiled water fall over when a pot support melted. That’s a safety problem, especially when this stove is being used by kids

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Dan

Please do not misunderstand me! I agree totally that this is a very bad thing, a very dangerous thing. The current crop of BRS-3000T stoves are clearly not fit for use.

All I was trying to do was to figure out just what had happened. And to point out that a titanium pot support could not have actually melted in a propane/air flame. Softened and sagged, in a very dangerous way, certainly.

Sad, really.

Cheers

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Roger, even softening and sagging I don’t envision that happening.

It would behove one of the three that did the testing, Andrew Marshall, Ryan Jordan, or Chase Jordan, to report their findings to The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC). It’s in the best interest of the entire backpacking comunities around the world. 4 0ut of 7 melting is absolutely terrible. They can contact the (CPSC) at: https://www.saferproducts.gov/Default.aspx

Here is the form to fill out:

https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPublic/Incidents/ReportIncident.aspx

The Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) protects the public from unreasonable risks of serious injury or death from thousands of types of consumer products under its jurisdiction, including products that pose a fire, electrical, chemical, or mechanical hazard or can injure children.

The current crop of BRS-3000T need to be removed from sales all over the world. They are a danger of the largest magnatude. As Roger has clearly stated: “The current crop of BRS-3000T stoves are clearly not fit for use.”

Hopfully, Andrew Marshall, Ryan Jordan, or Chase Jordan, will report their findings to The Consumer Product Safety Commission.

 

 

 

 

[James Marco]

Yeah, well, keep it on the QT. They don’t really want to let it be known very loudly… We all do not so safe things, but, I agree about the BRS-3000.

 

[Jacob Craner]

The BRS-3000 is the lightest by a mile, and functions just fine if used as I assume it was originally designed:  To boil 2 cups of water in a reasonable amount of time.

I run mine with a 550 cup at 1/3 fuel (it’s more efficient this way anyways) without issue.

[Roger Caffin]

What we really need is a good photo of a failed BRS-3000T and the pot supports. Just give me one photo and I should be able to tell what happened.

Cheers

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Roger, can you get in touch with Ryan, Chase or Andrew and ask them to take some photos of the 4 that failed out of the 7 they tested? Those are the ones we really want to see.

They indicated that they purchased the 7 just so they could test for failures.

 

[Roger Caffin]

Ryan

Can we get a photo of the failed BRS-3000T and the pot supports please? There has been a lot of discussion about this one stove in your stove review, partly because a propane/air flame can NOT melt titanium – but it can soften it enough for it to bend.

Cheers, Roger

[David Wiese]

Roger,

I’d also like clarification on why the Amicus’ weight is listed as a disadvantage, while the PR Deluxe (which weighs more) has no such disadvantage listed. Seems very misleading. It makes the entire article seem like a PR Deluxe advertisement.

[Roger Caffin]

My own personal opinion is that the whole Pocket Rocket series have a bad design. The original has thin bendy pot supports which failed and a cutting torch flame, and the follow-ons are only very slowly improving. There are many much better and sometimes cheaper stoves available from elsewhere.

But to your question – you would have to ask the authors.

Cheers

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Roger, are the authors ok? They are not responding to questions. Can you email them and check in on them please. Maybe they had a mishap in the back country.

[Roger Caffin]

I have already emailed Ryan, but it can take some time…

Cheers

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Thank you Roger. Hope they are ok.

Here is some important information given by “Adventures In Stoving” concerning the safety hazards of the BRS3000T, I quote Hikin’ Jim:

I put approximately 750 ml (three cups) of water into the pot, fired it up, and waited.  And waited.  And waited.  And waited.  After about 10 minutes the water came to a low boil.  The stove was not able to achieve a full roiling boil.  I had heard that a BRS-3000T would struggle in wind, but I had no idea it would be this bad.  All open burner upright canister stoves are impacted by wind, but I have <i>never</i> seen a stove this wind sensitive before.  Even at highest output it could not bring 750 ml of water to a roiling boil, and this was not a particularly windy day.  I would describe the winds as moderate.  I had to put a weight on my ramen noodle wrapper to keep it from flying away, but it wasn’t like cups were being pushed over by the wind, and the trees around me were not blowing way over or anything like that.  These were pretty ordinary, common outdoor conditions, conditions that I probably wouldn’t even take particular note of normally.

Well, I was hungry, so I put my noodles in, and, after a bit… what the heck?  Did I put the pot on wrong or something?  My pot was clearly listing to one side like a sinking ship!
My Evernew 1300 ml pot – canted off to one side atop a BRS-3000T</td>

Quickly, I grabbed my pot before my lunch took a tumble!  Examining the stove, I realized that the pot support had bent.  It may be a little hard to see here, but the pot support on the right in the below photo is bent outward and down with a slight twist.
<
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Note the bend and partial twist in the pot support on the right.

All I had in the pot was about 750 ml of water and some ramen noodles.  I mean c’mon, that is a very normal load for a stove.  If I had put a 3 liter pot on a little stove like this maybe I’d understand, but 750 ml?  That’s trivial.  A stove should be able to handle 750 freaking little milliliters.  750 ml is only 0.75 kg (1.7 lbs).  <b>Do <i>not</i> get distracted by the pot size.</b>  This is not a pot size issue.  Read the Analysis section below.  The real issue in this case is the wind and the design of the stove.

Yes, I tested the stove on <i>top</i> of the picnic table.  Yes, it would have been better to set it on the ground behind a rock or something, but c’mon!  I ought to at least be able to boil water after 10 minutes on high.  This stove is a really poor performer in wind, and there certainly shouldn’t have been any deformation in the pot supports after 10 to 12 minutes.
The pot supports of a BRS-3000T are exposed to a great deal of heat.
<

Remember that photo I posted earlier?  The pot supports absorb a <i>lot</i> of heat from the flame.  After 10 minutes on high, they had absorbed enough heat that the pot supports deformed even though they weren’t under a particularly heavy load.

<b>Analysis</b>
I noticed during use that the wind was blowing the flame toward the pot support that eventually failed.  Said pot support was glowing brightly while the pot support opposite was barely affected. So much heat was channeled into the one pot support that even under a relatively light load of less than a kilogram, the pot support experienced “creep deformation” (or “creep failure”), the tendency of a metal to slowly deform under stress – a tendency that increases when both stress and heat are present.

The way that the flame and supports are configured, the pot supports are blasted with heat.  Magnify that effect with wind directing the majority of the heat to a single pot support, and you get creep deformation.  Yes, I realize that 10 to 12 minutes is a little long to be running a stove, but, it’s not a grossly unreasonable time to run a stove, particularly in wind.  A stove shouldn’t deform due to its own flame in such a short time.  The stove should not have been designed such that the pot supports are blasted with heat – or they should have been made a little more heat resistant.  Remember that photo I posted of the flame?  Most stoves don’t have that kind of discoloration in the flame.  There’s something peculiar about this stove and its design.

 

Read more:  https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-brs-3000t-worlds-lightest-stove.html

Jim also reports of Failures #2 and #3:

https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/brs-3000t-failure-2.html

https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2017/03/brs-3000t-another-failure.html

Combine Jim’s information with Ryan’s, file a report to the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) would certainly “fix the problem”

https://www.usa.gov/federal-agencies/consumer-product-safety-commission

[Roger Caffin]

Jim’s blog mentions another user Miguel:
Miguel reports that he just bent the pot supports back after the stove cooled and went on his way.

That is very revealing. You can NOT do that with a good high-strength titanium alloy such as 6Al4V, but you could do it with plain CP titanium. Unfortunately, CP Ti has a service temperature hundreds of degrees C below that of, say, 6Al4V.

So I will stick with my idea that someone changed the good Ti alloy they were using at the start to CP titanium without realising the consequences. After all, some of us who bought early versions of the BRS-3000T have been using them for years without a problem. The early models are fine.

Side comment: trying to use a small canister stove without a windscreen is just silly. Big waste of gas. Sorry if anyone is offended, but I will stand by that comment as well, based on lots of experience.

Cheers

[obx hiker]

Boy this is a hot topic  ;)

I’m seriously amazed at the skill, knowledge and experience so often displayed on this blog!

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

<span style=”font-weight: 400;”>When we read the comment Ryan made about his stove and pot falling from the picnic table due to the failing stove (   ) and look at the photo of the failing stove on Jim’s picnic table where the pot is just about to slip off makes us think of how many children will be hurt because of failing BRS3000T stoves. Jim is lucky his daughter was not hurt from the failing stove, Jim’s daughter, photo from Jim’s Adventures in Stoving:</span>

 

<span style=”font-weight: 400;”>If a pot of boiling water falls onto one of our children, our thoughts will go directly to them and the pot and stove will fall from the picnic table onto the ground that has leaf litter which will catch fire and the wind will blow the burning debri into the sage brush which will catch fire and in turn work it’s way to a forest and the forest will catch fire. The western states are prone to raging fires during the hot summer/fall months. Ryan…….please file a report to the proper government agency.</span>

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Yes, I’m still concerned about the failures Ryan reported so I quote James Marco, his comment from the Companion forum thread to: Podcast 011 | Canister Stove Reviews</span>

Too bad the BRS-3000 is such low quality. While I never bought one, I appreciate the unreliability report. Over 50% support structure failure (4 out of 7) is simply unacceptable. Nice to know. As you said, a failure in the field could be dangerous. To me, this is enough to fail the stove let alone put it at the top of the list.

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