Bob Open 2017

[Mike M]

I’ll add that while Badger Pass has lost some snow of late (we’ve been ~ 10 or more degrees warmer than normal for the last week)- it still has a solid 7′ of snow

[Tyler H]

I like the look of the median SWE at 6/01 on the SNOTEL figure :) But, of course, snow will ensure adventure.

[Dan M]

Considering current conditions, would any of you guys care to offer a snowshoe  recommendation for the open this year ?  Not alot of experience with them around here- thxs, dan

[Mike M]

Borrowing Dan D’s idea, I’ve had good luck with MSR Swifts- a small youth shoe, but will accommodate up to a Men’s 11 shoe.  Very nice bindings and decent grip and of course being small- pretty light.

If there is a lot of snow and it happens to be soft snow, these wouldn’t provide adequate flotation.

I snowshoed last weekend and encountered some terrible snow up high- I was sinking up to my knees and beyond and this was on 30″ shoes (Lightnings).  No exaggeration, I was covering about a 1/2- 1 mile/hour- luckily only about two hours of suffering.

Typically (but not always!) the spring snow is rather compacted (guessing from melting, refreeezing) and you don’t need a lot of flotation.

[Tanner K]

In my experience, snowshoes in late spring are dead weight. The snowpack is usually very well consolidated by then and nights are cool enough to keep things firm. In places where the snow is isothermal, I am not convinced snowshoes would even be helpful, but just a lot more difficult to get your feet out of your postholes.

That being said, I did take snowshoes in 2015. Paranoia got the best of me when I saw that the mileage math had me crossing Switchback Pass and traveling at high elevation for several miles late in the day. I walked on snow from about 4-7 that evening and never considered stopping to put the snowshoes on.

You never know though – the picture below is of Adam in 2014 at the top of the pass between Dolly Varden and Pentagon Creeks. It was before 9am after a good enough refreeze that we had a little trouble climbing the pass on the icy snow. He just happened to find a 15 foot stretch of random mush that took him 5 minutes to cross. We probably would’ve had to wait for him to melt out if he had been anchored down by snowshoes. I walked 10 feet from him without sinking at all.

 

 

Ok, now the pictures are refreshing my memory and making me rethink my advice on snowshoes. On the way down from that pass Adam postholed into the empty space near a downed log and hurt his leg. The below picture is him “walking” out to Spotted Bear. Yeah, that’s a Coors Light in the pack we found on the FS road within 5 miles of the start and forgot to drink. I am afraid I have done nothing to clear up the snowshoe debate – sorry!

 

[Mike M]

agreed- snowshoes are definitely dead weight (well unless you need them :) )

[Dan M]

Thanks guys for all the input— now that being said, how many of you veterans are taking them this year?dead weight and all —

[Mike M]

I don’t leave home without them :)

[Dan M]

Thxs mike, thats what  I thought doesn’t look like a good year to try to skip them either

[Tyler H]

I am almost thinking about just XC skis… but that’s a bad idea. Here’s how we’re looking; approaching median values at Mt Lockart, but still high at Badger Pass. My wishful thinking is that with climate change we are likely to see quicker melt off relative to climate normals, a narrowing of the curve on the hydrograph. A few more weeks to see what happens… 

 

[Mike M]

Badger Pass is really hanging tough close to 7′; that’s with some decently warm weather and wind

I can tell you that they definitely have more snow west of the divide; we had an above normal snow year, west of the divide an extraordinary year

I went into the Rattlesnake Wilderness today snowshoeing and almost out of the parking lot got into decent amount of snow; at the wilderness boundary probably 6′- Stuart Peak close to 8′

 

[Tyler H]

Dang Mike! Appreciate the report. Denial will not be a successful strategy for me come Memorial weekend.

[Mike M]

I’m hoping for a non-repeat of 2014 where no one finished :)

[John Klinepeter]

Dang Mike! +1.  You are a two-legged snow machine!

[Mike M]

^ :)

looked at Badger Pass again- it’s been three weeks straight now that it hasn’t budged off of 7′ (give or take a couple of inches), in the meantime we’ve lost every bit of our snow on our local trails

[Mike M]

was able to find some more bad snow yesterday on the way up to Casey Peak in the Elkhorns- this stuff has no compactness whatsoever- you stick your pole out ahead of you and it just sinks into oblivion, just like your next step! :(

fortunately we had some good snow too or we would have never made it to the top

20-ish pound pack + snowshoes + good elevation = good training :)

 

 

[Scott G]

Any risk of Avanlanch this time of year? I don’t know much about that stuff. I’d imagine the density of the snow would make it pretty low.

[Sam Haraldson]

Scott, there is essentially always some chance of avalanche in the mountainous American West between October and July but on the front and tail ends of that season the risk is greatly reduced.  Wet snow avalanches are the most common form of dangerous snow in the Springtime and if care is taken to avoid slopes steeper than 30 deg during the warmest parts of the day a majority of that risk can be mitigated.  These statements only touch on this subject however and should be considered nothing more than rules of thumb and not by any means an end-all-be-all of the infinite nuances of mountain snowpack.

The best and easiest way to avoid an avalanche however is to avoid avalanche terrain.  So, if you can plan a route that generally avoids terrain steeper than 30 deg then you are well on your way to staying safe from the snowpack.  I wish you all the best in planning a trip during the wildest time of year in the mountains!

[Mike M]

^ good info!

guys should check out Dave C’s latest blog on upper level stream crossings- some really good info there

[John N]

Good post Dave.  If there is one thing you can guarantee in the Bob in the spring is at least your feet will get wet and will do some stream crossings.  2015 had a few hairy ones (White River and Strawberry) and 2016 had very few of any concern.  Regarding avalanches, Sam’s info is spot on.

[Mike M]

these guys might have been pushing the slope a little                   :)

 

[John N]

Bunch of knuckleheads if you ask me.

[Mike M]

^ no doubt! :)

[Dan @ Durston Gear]

In 2012 we had quite a bit of recent fresh snow (6-10″?) including more that fell during the event. Some sort of snowshoe was pretty much essential for this.

Where a small snowshoe is ideal is mid-spring when the snow hasn’t fully consolidated, but there is a solid surface crust that can support a snowshoe but not a foot. I experienced just this two days ago, where my MSR Shifts could walk easily on the 1″ thick crust, while in shoes I would post hole thigh deep in the non-consolidated snow underneath.

I do agree that though that the snow is often fully consolidated enough that walking with just shoes is fine. In this case snowshoes might be dead weight, but 2.5 lbs of dead weight isn’t a large price to pay compared to the burden of lacking snowshoes when you need them. Even saving a few hundred meters of post holing can easily out weight the burden of carrying 2.5 lbs. So I would carry them by default unless you’re confident you don’t need them. In 2014 I post holed only 50m over White Pass in conditions that showshoes would have helped with, and by the end of those 50m I was wishing I had them.

I left them behind in 2015 and didn’t use them in 2014, but they were essential in 2012 and I doubt I would go without this year. I see the gauges near the start are up to 140% of the normal snowpack. I’m planning skis.

[Mike M]

Badger Pass continues to impress; while ~ 7′ of snow is always impressive, the fact that it hasn’t budged in over a month is what impresses me.

Looking at the last two years, on this date snow totals were in the 50″ range and dropping rather steadily.

Obviously a lot can change in six weeks, but it has the makings of an interesting year :)

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