Ryan Jordan’s SUL Winter Challenge

[Ryan Faulkner]

What I changed

Tilley insted of golite cap
.3 oz sunglasses instead of .5
changed 3/4 GG thinlight 3/8″ glued to oware 1/4″ to two GG thinlight 1/8″
changed Coccoon Belay to Coccoon and down balaclava
changed BMW coccoon pants to Ryans 6.5oz Quantum shelled Knicker noted Here
gas stove to a wood stove
and changed headlamp to a slightly lighter lamp.

[kevin davidson]

Ryan the not as old as that other Ryan— some interesting variations. You will go far.

About that 1.2 oz. stove of Bill’s. I believe that the inventer himself raised some reservations about the use of that stove on RJ’s venture. I, of course, have grave doubts about using either open fires or wood stoves on this Uber-light adventure. I stated some of those objections before and won’t repeat them.
I really would like to see a cooking system that more people are likely to employ ( at least out here on the Left Coast) and would be legal to use in Alpine areas in the National Parks I frequent ( such as Yosemite, King’s and Sequoia). Also, a stove that can be used in enclosed (but vented) spaces like tents or vestibules or snow caves. I wouldn’t use the Billstove (TM) in such places. In Winter, I find I sometimes must use a stove in those very places.

You and Bill should and ought to test this wood stove in Winter conditions and see how well it performs in melting 2-3 liters, using peices of wood that reflect real world conditions ( different species, fine and loose grained, hardwoods or conifer, wet or dry. It would be very interesting. Perhaps some of my concerns could even be rebutted.

The choice of headlamp– If we went for a sub 1 watt led headlamp ( to save weight and have extended running times) I would opt for the Aurora or Tikka. They are considered much more reliable than the Energizer Essentials and much more water resistant. You might want to check out this review:
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/energizer_ledessentials.htm
and check out the site”s other headlamp reviews. Craig of Flashlight Reviews is considered by many to be among the most reliable authorities on all things involving portable lighting.

The Cocoon Pullover/ Nunatak Balaclava option you put on your list is definately one to consider. If it wasn’t for the intregal hood on the Belay Jacket and the eVENT outer ( which makes it a more versatile insulated jacket for the purpose) and the fact that it’s inclusion on the trip will probably make us all want to buy one (is this a plus or a minus?)– I would favor your suggestion. Sorry for the run-on sentence. Interesting what other people might favor.

Finally Ryan, I noticed on some of your postings you have used my winking ;-)>

cheers. Kevin

[Ryan Faulkner]

I guess you guys are really pushing for 6# winter SUL. I dont know, I guess its fine, but I would rather see a sub 5# load.
I understand your reasoning, but I dont think this was the initial goal when Carol started this thread

[Bob Gabbart]

Ryan,

Lots of interesting options. With regard to the pads, I don’t think the 2×1/8″ pads are going to work. In an earlier post RJ said that the 3/8″ pad under his legs would not be enough and suggested adding the glued 1/4″ pad to the 3/8″ pad in the section not covered by the Nightlight Torso. Replacing that setup with 2×1/8″ pads would not be as warm as the 3/8″ pad alone that he said was not warm enough.

With regard to the 5# vs. 6#. The weight cutoff is arbitrary. I don’t see any problem with us redefining was SUL for winter is. Winter camping is a different mindset and therefore I belive deserves a different interpretation of SUL.

[Anonymous]

Ryanf,

SUL being 5lbs or less… Fine for 3 season but don’t you believe there should be some allowance for winter backpacking? Would it help to think of this as WSUL: Winter Super ultra Light

Bobs compiled list is pretty minimal as it is. To error in judgment over a few ounces will be an unwise considering the consequences. I truly doubt that not to many of us would want to deal with the conditions RyanJ will have to with the 5lbs or less assigned equipment.

I don’t think the point of this exercise wasn’t meant to just suffer and survive, but to be safe and comfortable carrying the least amount of weight.

[Ryan Faulkner]

about the pads being minimal, this my be true but I saw this page and it shows Ryan using a 1/4″ pad ang GG pad in winter so I thought…

I totaly agree with the 6# SUL winter definition, but all I am saying, and I dont mean to argue, is that the challenge was sub 5 according to the first post in this thread. I myself would go sub 5 in the winter if I had the money to purchase the gear, but this may be because I have a high metabolisim, and can sleep cold. I dont mean to be a pain in the butt, but I just dont want to settle for something, when it is not quite what Ryan wanted.

[Ryan Faulkner]

just another option, looks great and may eliminate theneed for other layers. probably an item worn.
The north face met 5 jacket

[paul johnson]

this process has been taking a lot longer than i thought that it would (that’s not necessarily a bad thing – i’m very impressed with the knowledge and ingenuity of the main gear-selection participants).

but, i’m wonderin’ if Dr. J already has a sub-5lb kit for winter? maybe he could post all the possible gear he’d like to take and then y’all could pick the gear off the list and also substitute other equivalent items he’d be able to obtain, so that others can attempt a similar adventure.

the reasoning is as follows: Dr. J knows what gear he needs to succeed in this challenge. his choices cover all of his and our concerns for proper warmth, etc. y’all still get to pick from a list and even substitute. this might be the only way we keep Dr. J warm and healthy and break a 5lb WSUL barrier???

just a thought. feel free to object.

[Bob Gabbart]

Ryan, the pad setup in that picture has the 1/4″ 3/4 length pad and ~1/4″ pad from his backpack giving him about 1/2″ under his legs. The two 1/8″ pads would only give him half that.

Bob

[John S.]

Sorry to reply late to you. I had not gone back through to figure out what sleeping gear was decided on. It looks like a couple others are carrying onward. Happy Thanksgiving to all!

[kevin davidson]

Ahhh–the old Chinese restaurant- one from column “A”, 2 from column “B” approach.

I think ol’ Ryan has subtlely done some of what you suggest throughout the history of this thread ( and a good thing, too).

I do wish there would be a deadline date for this project. It would motivate anyone else out there to come forward who might have final or new thoughts. I also think perhaps the current participants have almost taken this as far as possible as a “groupthink” process.

And a good Thanksgiving to you, John, Paul, Bob G,
both Ryans and all.

[paul johnson]

thanks Kevin. same to you and yours. a deadline would be good – 2nd that.

maybe the “pick” approach isn’t a good idea. guess maybe this sounds too much like a bunch of young girls playing and dressing up a doll. now there’s a thought: a Dr. J Action Figure (we don’t want to be calling him a “doll”) complete with Tilley Hat. Just in time for the December holidays too. GI Joe, move over!!! There’s a new “bad boy” on the block. y’know, i might actually buy one and put it on the bookshelf right next to my “Tweetie” Pez dispenser. it’s gotta’ have a tilley, stixPro, G6 with a flyrod strapped to the side, gaiters, trail runners, the whole 9 yards though.

wouldn’t be surprised if we saw them for sale soon in the BPL Gear Shop…and, next year a 5lb WSUL version of the Dr. J Action Figure. i want to be the first kid on my block to collect them all.

[Bob Gabbart]

And a good Thanksgiving to all you as well. I’ve enjoyed this discussion.

If we can not agree on a list, maybe we can agree on a deadline. How about we agree to agree on a list by Dec 7. That’s 2 weeks.

Bob

[paul johnson]

Dec. 7th. – hopefully, not another day that will live in infamy. well, maybe only from the big Gear Companies’ point of view.

[kevin davidson]

Dec. 7–a gearlist which will live in infamy.

I be kool wif dat.

[Anonymous]

Oh Great another 2 weeks!

It’s a good thing Ryanj didnt ask for our help in creating this website…

[kevin davidson]

Roger—I hate to say, Ryan asked for input to improve the site.

re.Another 2 weeks…
— “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger”
Nietzsche

[Mark]

12.7.05 sounds good, I’ve really enjoyed seeing y’all think out loud for the winter set-up. Lots of learning on my part. I still like a previous poster’s suggestion that RyJ himself put up a list. Not necessarily now, but maybe sometime close to or soon after the deadline. Maybe he has a totally different take? Or maybe we’ll have finalized a similar kit. We might get also some more tidbits about prototypes that way…….
-Mark

[Anonymous]

Thanks for making my point:

1. He didn’t ask our help in creating this web site… Only to improve it!
Big Difference My Friend.

2. Using a Quote from an Action Movie “Conan the Barbarian” “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” perhaps that’s what’s required here More Action….

[kevin davidson]

A joke, Roger, a joke

re. Conan—Mileus put a paraphrase of Nietzsche’s words into the monosyllabic mouth of der future Governator. It’s all pop-speak, now.

[Bob Gabbart]

The G6 is such a cool little pack. It’s actually got a good amount of space. I say we go with that unless RJ says he can’t fit all the stuff in there.

Bob

[Ryan Jordan]

OK, Dec 7 is a good goal for the deadline. I assume that the last list published in the thread is the one that is now up for proposal and that is the one we are modifying between now and then?

When the list is decided, I will indeed take a look and modify it, but only if it results in weight savings. I won’t add to it.

It’s looking good so far…definitely like…a challenge…!

[Ryan Jordan]

OK, here are some comments on the current list.

01.50 Outdoor Research PowerStretch Balaclava
03.00 Nike Spandex Running Short Tights

I will probably replace the spandex shorts with smartwool microweight boxers. It’s nice to have the warmth in the winter. The primary benefit of the spandex is anti-chafing, which is not going to be problem at these temperatures.

We could probably skip the powerstretch bala since we have the down one, and replace it with a beanie cap.

More later…

[kevin davidson]

By last list are you referring to BobG’s or Ryan Faulkner’s ? Bob’s has your prototype Belay Jacket and a liquid gas stove ( currently) and is under 6 #. I would say that there has been more interest in modifying that list. Ryan F’s has the Bill ™ wood stove to bring the base weight to under 5 and goes for the Cocoon pullover and the Nunatak balaclava you allude to.

Happy T —I’m off to the high country.

[Michael Martin]

Hi Guys-

It seems like we’ve got people entrenched in several camps with the stove issue:

RyanF really wants Fire, and I can understand this as I have a 10 year old son who will hike all day just for the chance to build a campfire that night. :-)

Others are either in the Simmerlite, Xtreme, or (still?) in the upright canister camp.

What I propose is a stripped Xtreme stove like Bill F and company are building on a related MYOG thread. This should end up being in the 8oz range (or less if Bill really comes up with something fantastic). But, I propose limiting Ryan to a single 300g Powermax Canister (weight 400g full), giving a total stove+can+fuel weight of around 22oz. This should provide enough fuel to boil around 9L from snow, and give him the capability to make heat at 2am in a snowcave if necessary. But, he’ll have to use some fuel conservation strategies and hopefully build some cook fires to supplement his fuel. Maybe Ryan F could suggest a SUL firestarting kit….

Cheers,

-Mike

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