Ryan Jordan’s SUL Winter Challenge

just so anyone interested knows, I posted a new thread on Wood Stoves

I found recently found this stove online and think it could be a possibility for Dr. Jordan to use. It burns wood and works by preheating the air blown in to the fuel, much like a blacksmiths forge. It claims that it will burn wet wood and puts out 18,000 BTU/hr. Seems like a good compromise between a gas stove and a hobo stove. The titanium model weighs 10 oz.

Here’s a link. ZZ Manufacturing, Inc.

Roy

Although I have known people to use Zip Stoves on Winter trips involving fairly mild tempuratures and
readily found wood ( supplemented with carried pieces of “treated” wood)—I’ve never have heard anyone using one in the conditions that RJ is likely to encounter (blizzards willing). One would have to use Lithium batteries, of course, in lower temps.

My own experiences with the Zip involve going on trips with someone who was a “Ziphead”. My observation is they seem very fussy (quality of fuel issues) and the battery powered fan always seemed to have wiring problems (although field fixable).
I certainly would not use this or any other wood-fired stove in a tent, small tarp or snow cave– which is something I like to have the option of doing with my cooking systems, if stormbound–an issue that Ryan conceivably could face.

John Shannon —have you gone through all the pages yet and updated your list?

Myself–I’m feeling a little deterred by the quantity of posts on this thread.

Here is an updated SUL winter list. It includes the VB clothing. I’ve switched back to the Cocoon Pullover but added a Possumdown Hat. It has the EOS and the simmerlite. No windscreen – he can dig a hole. It also has the 1/4″ mat to put under his feet on top of the 3/8″ Thinlight (I calculated the weight based on the dimentions, and it is sized to cover the Thinlight from the bottom of the Torsolight to the end of the Thinlight. I’ve restored the Thinlight and the Torsolight back to their full sizes – non cut.

Clothing
10.00 RBH Designs Proto VB Jacket
01.50 Outdoor Research PowerStretch Balaclava
03.00 Nike Spandex Running Short Tights
18.00 Arc’Teryx Gamma MX
04.00 Bozeman Mountain Works FeatherLite Vapor Mitts
01.10 PossumDown Gloves

Footwear
02.00 Smartwool Lightweight Wool Liner Socks
03.00 RBH Designs Vapor-Thrm Fleece Socks
24.00 Montrail Susitna II XCR Trail Running Shoes
16.00 Forty Below Custom 2mm Neoprene Overboots
35.00 Northern Lites Elites Snowshoes

Other Items Worn / Carried
00.50 Sunglasses
01.00 Fox 40 Mini Whistle, AirCode Plus lanyard
01.30 Suunto X6
05.40 Stix Pro Carbon Fiber Trekking Poles
125.8 ounces
Total worn or carried 7.86 pounds

Shelter/Sleep/Extra Clothing
00.00 Snow Cave
16.00 Arc X Quilt
04.00 Vapor NANO Bivy
03.70 Gossamer Gear NightLight Torso
05.30 Gossamer Gear 3/4 length ThinLight 3/8″ glued to…
01.70 Oware 1/4″ Foam Pad (cut to 19.5 W x 30 L)
05.75 SnowClaw Backcountry Snow Shovel
05.00 VB Pants
09.00 BMW Cocoon Pullover
01.85 Possum Down Beanie Hat
01.50 Smartwool Lightweight Wool Liner Socks

Pack
03.70 Gossamer Gear G6

Cook/Hydration
02.45 Trangia 1 L. SaucePan
00.20 Foil lid
00.40 Backpacking Light Titanium Mini-Spork
00.30 Box of wooden matches in Ziploc
02.80 Nalgene Wide-Mouth Cantene 3 L
08.50 MSR SimmerLite
03.50 MSR Titan Fule Bottles 0.6L

Essentials
03.56 Princeton Tec EOS
01.00 Blister & minor would care supplies
00.50 TP: 4″x4″ blue shop towel squares – 1 / day
00.50 Alcohol hand gel in small bottle
00.50 Small stuff sack to organize essentials

81.71 ounces
Total Packed 5.11 pounds

Bob, Do I assume that this is your winter gear list? If so you might want to add the size of the items and if you have the item or would like to have the item. That way I/we can tell if the weight would be the same for something I/we might like to also have. If you have the item and anyone had a question about the product I/we could ask about it.

Thanks.

Bobg,

Excellent Gear List!

You can tell much thought has been put into formulating this list not only by the combined total weight but by the items you decided to include and the quality of the gear.

FastWalker

Bill,

This isn’t my list. I wouldn’t go out in the winter with this! ;) This is basically a reorganization of the previous lists posted on this thread with some suggested changes. But everything here has been posted before in some way or another. All the weights are from previous posts.

Bob

Thanks Bob.

Good compilation, Bob
Obviously , we have a ways to go.

1 Month and 16 pages of postings and “we have a ways to go?” whats left to add to Bobs List??

At this rate Summer will be here before Ryans feet touch snow…

I second Roger’s motion and bring to the floor a motion to vote on finalizing the list. All in favor say Yah ;)

Bob

Good looking list but not quite SUL.
we need to loose that .11oz.

what about Bills 1.2oz wood stove?

The easiest way to drop some weight off that list would be to change the handlamp to something smaller if Ryan feel comfortable using a lower power light in the winter.

Or we could just live with the extra .11 oz?

Bob—before we are quite so rash
Headgear for warmth is completely inadequate—I would rather go a few oz. over 5# in use the prototype insulated eVent jacket that Ryan sprang on us for both the hood , another moisture/wind barrier and superior warmth to the Cocoon Pullover.
I also would seriously consider inclusion of a pair of Cocoon pants.

I think I personally would be comfortable w/ the rest of the list. Eos headlamp–I would keep w/ Photon for backup. It would be nice to give Ryan a modified Xtreme Stove but time might not allow?

Candle for the Snow Cave is essential and we don’t have a sun hat.

Kevin said “I would rather go a few oz. over 5#”

I would too, but Ryan has to go under 5lbs for this trip.

Please read ALL the postings on this thread, Anonymous– and please get a name while you’re at it–since you choose to use mine. It is your assumption that this gearlist has to be sub-5#. Do you have something to offer that is more germane to the topic at hand? Perhaps a sub 5# list and a rationale behind it?

As Ryan Jordan stated or implied–perhaps what constitutes Winter SUL should be examined–perhaps it isn’t sub -5. Perhaps Full Skin Out weight is far more important. In fact Dr. Jordan seemed to feel that base weights are perhaps questionable,in and of themselves. It’s so easy to “pad” base weight figures by “wearing” more, for example.

I think everyone would agree that typical Winter weight is heavier that typical 3 season weight. So lets decide that Winter SUL = 6#. That being said, Kevin, I’ve made all the changes you suggested: Added back belay jacket, added cocoon pants, added micro led as backup, removed wool hat (because now we have insulated hood), added sun cap, added candle. We are still under 6#. Here it is:

Clothing
10.00 RBH Designs Proto VB Jacket
01.50 Outdoor Research PowerStretch Balaclava
03.50 Go Lite Mesh Cap (Sun hat)
03.00 Nike Spandex Running Short Tights
18.00 Arc’Teryx Gamma MX
04.00 Bozeman Mountain Works FeatherLite Vapor Mitts
01.10 PossumDown Gloves

Footwear
02.00 Smartwool Lightweight Wool Liner Socks
03.00 RBH Designs Vapor-Thrm Fleece Socks
24.00 Montrail Susitna II XCR Trail Running Shoes
16.00 Forty Below Custom 2mm Neoprene Overboots
35.00 Northern Lites Elites Snowshoes

Other Items Worn / Carried
00.50 Sunglasses
01.00 Fox 40 Mini Whistle, AirCode Plus lanyard
01.30 Suunto X6
05.40 Stix Pro Carbon Fiber Trekking Poles

129.3 ounces
Total worn or carried 8.08 pounds

Shelter/Sleep/Extra Clothing
00.00 Snow Cave
16.00 Arc X Quilt
04.00 Vapor NANO Bivy
03.70 Gossamer Gear NightLight Torso
05.30 Gossamer Gear 3/4 length ThinLight 3/8″ glued to…
01.70 Oware 1/4″ Foam Pad (cut to 19.5 W x 30 L)
05.75 SnowClaw Backcountry Snow Shovel
05.00 VB Pants
14.00 BMW Prototype eVENT Cocoon Belay Jacket
07.50 BMW Cocoon Pants
01.50 Smartwool Lightweight Wool Liner Socks

Pack
03.70 Gossamer Gear G6

Cook/Hydration
02.45 Trangia 1 L. SaucePan
00.20 Foil lid
00.40 Backpacking Light Titanium Mini-Spork
00.30 Box of wooden matches in Ziploc
02.80 Nalgene Wide-Mouth Cantene 3 L
08.50 MSR SimmerLite
03.50 MSR Titan Fule Bottles 0.6L

Essentials
03.56 Princeton Tec EOS
00.22 Photon Freedom Micro LED Light (Backup light)
01.00 Blister & minor would care supplies
00.50 TP: 4″x4″ blue shop towel squares – 1 / day
00.50 Alcohol hand gel in small bottle
01.00 Candle
00.50 Small stuff sack to organize essentials

93.58 ounces
Total Packed 5.85 pounds

So shall we vote now? All in favor …

Reminder of an Insulated Jacket that would be available for this Winter experiment and I quote Mr. Jordan–
“… the Cocoon Belay Jacket prototype… has an insulated hood, the hood is insulated, the insulation throughout is the same as the Cocoon pullover, quantum lining, eVENT shell…ho ho ho!!!! That’ll shake it up. it’s 14 oz.”.

Great job, Bob . A minor point— wool liner sox (in the extra clothing section) won’t work well under VB sox or as part of the sleeping system which would also use the VB sox. I feel an extra pair of sox would still be useful ( if just for emergencies) but perhaps something quick drying (capilene sox?).

Finally, one more caveat—are the packables going to fit in a G6? With food and water, this is going to push the 15 # reccommended weight capacity(especially when shlepping the snowshoes, which he might) and the load is fairly bulky as well.

My last experience of winter camping was in 1951 and my memory probably rivals Paul Johnsons, so if I am being naive please tell me.

The list so far lacks any means of digging sanitary holes in frozen ground. Shouldn’t it contain either a digging tool (other than merely a means of hiding beneath the snow till it melts) or an allowance for packing the residue out?

David.

Ryan J.–do you want to give a deadline to the participants on this thread to wrap it up?

Do you want to offer any further feedback or send us to the showers?

Any other last minute Uber-equipment you have in the works that might be fun to bring along?

>>”my memory probably rivals…”

my sincere condolences.

I think we should still go for sub 5.

here is bobs list modified

Clothing
10.00 RBH Designs Proto VB Jacket
01.50 Outdoor Research PowerStretch Balaclava
03.00 Tilley LT5 (Sun hat)……….MODIFIED
03.00 Nike Spandex Running Short Tights
18.00 Arc’Teryx Gamma MX
04.00 Bozeman Mountain Works FeatherLite Vapor Mitts
01.10 PossumDown Gloves

Footwear
02.00 Smartwool Lightweight Wool Liner Socks
03.00 RBH Designs Vapor-Thrm Fleece Socks
24.00 Montrail Susitna II XCR Trail Running Shoes
16.00 Forty Below Custom 2mm Neoprene Overboots
35.00 Northern Lites Elites Snowshoes

Other Items Worn / Carried
00.30 Gossamer gear Sunglasses……….MODIFIED
01.00 Fox 40 Mini Whistle, AirCode Plus lanyard
01.30 Suunto X6
05.40 Stix Pro Carbon Fiber Trekking Poles

128.6 ounces
Total worn or carried 8.03 pounds

Shelter/Sleep/Extra Clothing
00.00 Snow Cave
16.00 Arc X Quilt
04.00 Vapor NANO Bivy
03.70 Gossamer Gear NightLight Torso
04.00 2 Gossamer Gear full length ThinLight 1/8″ pads ……….Modified
05.75 SnowClaw Backcountry Snow Shovel
05.00 VB Pants
08.50 BMW Cocoon……….MODIFIED
06.50 Quantum shelled down Knickers……….Modified
01.50 Smartwool Lightweight Wool Liner Socks
03.00 Nunatak USA Down Balaclava……..MODIFIED

Pack
03.70 Gossamer Gear G6

Cook/Hydration
02.45 Trangia 1 L. SaucePan
00.20 Foil lid
00.40 Backpacking Light Titanium Mini-Spork
00.30 Box of wooden matches in Ziploc
02.80 Nalgene Wide-Mouth Cantene 3 L
01.20 Bills wood stove……….MODIFIED

essentials
02.90 Energizer LED Essentials……….MODIFIED
00.22 Photon Freedom Micro LED Light (Backup light)
01.00 Blister & minor would care supplies
00.50 TP: 4″x4″ blue shop towel squares – 1 / day
00.50 Alcohol hand gel in small bottle
01.00 Candle
00.50 Small stuff sack to organize essentials

75.62 ounces
Total Packed 4.72625 pounds

“The list so far lacks any means of digging sanitary holes in frozen ground.”

Ya… I’ve noticed that that is something that you never, ever, see in UL gear lists. What’s the deal with that? I’ve always wondered.

Those of us on the UL path to enlightenment ;-)>
will often use objects at hand to dig a cat hole—rocks,cooking pots, sticks, ice axes, skis, snowshoes, hands. In the Winter in deep snow,there may be no alternative but to dig a hole in snow (contents revealed in Spring, maybe)–I do burn or carry out TP (whatever’s appropriate). In other situations, terrain and snowfall may allow digging into ground (preferred).