- Oct 20, 2005 at 2:02 am #1343279
Thanks for the feedback. I will try to do that or put update notes on the bottom of the post. I did have the cocoon pullover and pants listed, but I am not sure what would need to be removed to make that work. Do feel free to cut/paste my list and make any changes you are interested in to see if it can work.
The JRB weather shield top with polycro groundsheet could replace the bivy and maybe give more sleeping bag water resistance. That may be difficult to stay in place over the sleeping bag though.Oct 20, 2005 at 7:37 am #1343288
I would keep the bivy because it has a more unified integrity than the seperate sheets you are proposing. Quantum is amazingly water resistant.
Also, we need a few BMW products for Ryan to carry. Promotional, you know? Ryan’s got a family to feed.
Another thing, these will be ideal conditions for VBL clothing which could be another means of cutting weight. In fact, I think an Arc X could be used after all if VBL is worn at night or a VBL bag liner is used.Oct 20, 2005 at 10:21 am #1343297
Vapor barrier clothing made from cuben fabric would be the ticket. An entire suit or bag may weigh around 3-4 oz. I’m guessingOct 20, 2005 at 10:47 am #1343298EndoftheTrailBPL Member
Just wondering out loud… is this Carol’s sinister plot to rid herself of RJ?Oct 20, 2005 at 11:13 am #1343299Michael MartinBPL Member
@mikemartinLocale: North Idaho
John Shannon writes:
>> Vapor barrier clothing made from cuben fabric would be the ticket. An entire suit or bag may weigh around 3-4 oz. I’m guessing.
Now we’re talking! Great idea, John. A suit would allow easy use of his warm clothing in the sleep system, but if we went the bag liner route, he could still drape the WM flight jacket over the top of the VBL.
Maybe we could coax Bill Fornshell to volunteer to make Ryan a Cuben VBL suit… <g>
If not, an even lighter alternative would be one of those mylar space bags for a VBL at 2.6oz.Oct 20, 2005 at 11:33 am #1343302
John –please take off the googles and substitute the glasses—it will work. I like the idea of a Cuben VBL top/bottom combo or a cuben VBL liner—weight would trade across the board ( infact, it could come in lighter)
—-unless Ryan rules that previously unmade custom equipment is not allowed for purposes of this game.
We should decide on his mode of travel,gang. See my earlier post advocating snowshoes (and why)
Finally, we should pay attention to the clothing he will be wearing (not counted towards base weight)
I would suggest for starters the following:
Topside— Icebreaker Bodyfit 260 L/S Tech Top ( about 12 oz. med.)
—Golite Momentum Softshell (12 oz. M)
—ID eVENT Jacket (W/B layer) — oversized
to size large (9.5 oz. )
— Gloves (possum wool)—(1.8 oz.)
— Overmitts ( BMW Vapor Mitts @ 4 oz.)
—Balaclava-Golite CTE (2.5Oz.)
Bottoms— synthetic baselayer – Golite LW C-Thru
Tights (4 oz.)
— softshell pant-Golite Propel (10 oz.)
— W/B hardshell pant-ID eVENT pant
I don’t strongly advocate specific makes above so
But, what am I anyway,his mother? I feel I’m dressing him too warmly. I would subtract a layer here,a layer there, for myself. I get all parental when I suggest clothing for other people.
Also, throw in a Photon Freedom light on a string for backup and a Suunto X6 or S6 altimeter watch.Oct 20, 2005 at 12:28 pm #1343303Michael MartinBPL Member
@mikemartinLocale: North Idaho
Nice clothing list, Kevin.
Since the whole trip is supposed to be sub-freezing, I suggest ditching the eVent stuff, although he’ll still need something else (with a hood) on top.
Also, I believe the Golite Propel pants have a powerstretch backside. I’d suggest something w/ better weather protection like Arcteryx Gamma MX, or some Dryskin pants.
How do you feel about Panoptyx sunglasses?
Snowshoes work for me. They’re lighter than a ski setup anyway. I’ve heard good things about Northern Lights (sp?), but haven’t used them personally.Oct 20, 2005 at 12:58 pm #1343305
The Panoptyx would work well.
As to the eVENT layer, I think W/B hardshells have a place in these temps. as a means of additional low bulk/weight warmth. If you ever dig out a snowcave, one really appreciates the value of a hardshell to keep you dry.
Gamma MX or dryskin works for me as would Beyond Fleece’s Cold Fusion or Vayu Pants (using Schoeller’s WB-400 softshell material).
Snowshoes–Snowshoes–SnowshoesOct 20, 2005 at 1:01 pm #1343307
Maybe it might be more efficient to decide on a packing checklist first.
Rather than worry about individual items and their weights, figure out what general items need to get packed and then find the lightest specific items to fit the need.Oct 20, 2005 at 1:12 pm #1343308
Would you care to generate one?
I’m not feeling quite lucid enough. I’ve spent much of the a.m. in a spray booth—lacquer.
Like…far out, mannn…Oct 20, 2005 at 1:24 pm #1343311Bill FornshellBPL Member
@bfornshellLocale: Southern Texas
Don’t be so persumptuous to think a VBL suit hasn’t been though about. I expect one day soon you will see all soft goods made out of Cuben material to test to see how/if it will work. I am working on a pair of pants at this time but I want to put full side zips on it. I have some light YKK 2-way separating zippers 26″ long but want some 35″ long. I am on hold waiting for a phone call to see if I can get them. They would be #3 coil YKK zippers. Very light. The 26″ zippers that I have weigh 10 grams. I am also waiting on some shorter zippers same kind but 14″ long to put on the sides of a shirt. I will use the 26″ zippers on the pants if it will take awhile to get the 35″ zippers. I want to try the shirt and pants out on a hike that will start the week before Christmas.
My plan is to start at Newfound Gap and take the AT south back to Fontana Dam. Adjust my gear as necessary and continue south on the AT to Dicks Creek Gap. I am hoping to see some snow.Oct 20, 2005 at 1:36 pm #1343312
At Kevin’s request, gear list updated to remove goggles and replace with sportsglasses.Oct 20, 2005 at 1:46 pm #1343314
“Would you care to generate one? “
I just find that its often easiest to sort out the abstract then worry about the details.Oct 20, 2005 at 1:53 pm #1343316Bob GabbartMember
I agree with Joe Robbins. You guys should first sort out an abstract SUL winter list without worry about specifc brands/models. Then once the abstract list is agreed to, go back and decide on the specific brand/model.Oct 20, 2005 at 1:53 pm #1343317
Well, Joe— those who do the work decide.
I think that we just will have to play off of John’s
base weight list and my stuff worn list until someone else steps in.
How about you, Bob G?
It is a good idea.Oct 20, 2005 at 2:01 pm #1343318
With that last change and removal from the base weight, we have nearly 5 ounces to do something else with. Kevin’s space blanket bag might be in order for a cheap, light vbl.Oct 20, 2005 at 2:08 pm #1343319
my space blanket bag? But let’s add a VBL liner (whether mylar or cuben) to the list, anyway(say 2 -2 1/2 oz.).Map is an oz. too heavy–1 will do. Still need those xtra sox.Oct 20, 2005 at 2:21 pm #1343320
Ooops that was Michael that mentioned the vbl space bag like this
It is interesting that in Ryan’s Winter gearlist he doesn’t mention an additional pair of socks, but we can surely add them.Oct 20, 2005 at 2:26 pm #1343321
It was just an idea Kev… Im not interested in deciding anything for anyone but me.
I dont need the karma of a jordansicle.Oct 20, 2005 at 2:33 pm #1343322
I think the mylar bag is the one–2 1/2 oz. and BPL sells it.
I know about that list and I think that Ryan spaced it on the sox. He also apparently thought that a synthetic bag was more appropriate to snowcave living at that time. I think that for 2-3 nights that he can get away w/ down—especially using a VBL
and the other creature comforts that we’re giving him on the gear list.
He should have a candle–great for warming up a snow cave ( if properly constructed for ventilation) if used carefully.
I expect Ryan to carve out a raised sleeping platform and shelves (note:please document, Ryan)
— we want him to live in the style that he is accustomed to as the Martha Stewart of UL Backpacking.
Joe, don’t get so familiar– that’s Herr Professor Doktor Davidson, to you. :-POct 20, 2005 at 2:34 pm #1343323Ryan JordanAdmin
@ryanLocale: Central Rockies
The idea of this exercise is that you guys not add all this extraneous stuff, so that skills / techniques can replace some reliance on gear… ;) I do appreciate the extra socks, but if it came right down to it, I do reserve the right to ditch (but not add) gear at the car.Oct 20, 2005 at 2:41 pm #1343325
OK Ryan— how about my 2 1/2 # list of earlier?
Total reliance on skill and technique.
How about one little hint of what feels extraneous to you.Oct 20, 2005 at 2:49 pm #1343326Ryan JordanAdmin
@ryanLocale: Central Rockies
>> How about one little hint of what feels extraneous to you.
Clothing I can’t wear or sleep in at any time. In other words, if the clothing is there as an “extra”, then I’d like the flexibility to BOTH wear AND sleep in it.
A waterproof shelter? I mean, shouldn’t it be cold enough that dry snow just sort of falls off it ;)Oct 20, 2005 at 3:03 pm #1343327Ryan FaulknerBPL Member
I recomend bringing a G5 instead of a G6, using a arc alpinist instead of an arc X, bringing Coccon pants, mitts, and jacket, cooking over fires to save weight and to provide extra warmth wile around camp, using a mont bell breeze dry tec cover because it provides a little more warmth and is fully waterproof just in case Ryan cannot build a snow cave it provides more weather protection than a vapor bivy, also add a space blanket ground cloth to provide extra warmth to the sleep system and to use in an emergencey (down bag looses loft) for sun glasses check out the ones on the gossamer gear website and by the way bring extra socks
(not Ryan Jordan)
(P.S. I always bring a space blanket in the winter because it dose add some warmth to my sleep system as a ground cloth and I feel a litle more secure with my down bag knowing I have one. I think 2oz is worth it)Oct 20, 2005 at 3:13 pm #1343328Ryan FaulknerBPL Member
check thease out for ultralight sun glasses
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