The COVID 19 outbreak. Does it mean MORE backpacking this year?

[HkNewman]

Some views on all sorts of hiking during this time in a major US paper … including a small interview with the AT Conservancy head:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2020/03/31/coronavirus-how-stay-safe-while-hiking-during-pandemic/5086868002/?fbclid=IwAR2zx3Had9yXe3TmOBhz2cHcWgZOGOe3f2ETLWPJ7q0YI1lmBNRjT-Az6_4

[Eugene Hollingsworth]

I’ll probably still go out, but will be even more careful to avoid people. My preference for overnighters is in the state forests away from everyone anyway. Pretty easy to keep distance measured by time, not just measured in feet. I’ll pack a lunch for the drive so not to go into the convenience stores.

Yesterday I received a new down bag, washed the package and my hands right away.

[James Marco]

Suggesting any type of unnecessary travel can only serve to spread the diseases. Travel within “walking distance” is necessary to maintain sanity, though. It becomes difficult to reconcile any long distance travel with overall health guidelines. (Of course, some of us can do a fair piece on a road walk to a trail head.)  Soo, perhaps it becomes more important to observe a set of Best Practices  for the next eight weeks.

1) Travel should be limited to whatever you can do in a round trip in your vehicle. While Mom&Pop stores are hurting, do not take the chance of killing Pop because you need gas.

2) Do not buy supplies on the trail. This involves a face-to-face meeting. Avoid all these encounters. Rather carry everything you need for the duration you expect to be out. You do NOT want to be responsible for passing the COVID19 virus to anyone. Nor,  can you tell if the person you are dealing with has the disease. Look at the bright side. You are FAR less likely to catch ANYTHING else, either.

3) Do Not Use Postal Resupply Points. A postal worker is exposed to up to several thousands of packages per day, incoming and outgoing. He will pick up your package, set it on the counter (IFF he has not already called in sick and closed the post office in the emergency,) and demand your ID from a couple feet away. Do you really want to risk this? And yes, it works both ways, he is not really happy to serve you, either, if you are not a regular.

(OK, assuming you talked to no one and touched nothing and maintained good social distancing to the trail head, we have arrived at the parking spot. Well shit…there are twenty cars there and they are all packed in tighter than sardines in a can. MOVE ON.)

4) Make sure plans are flexible.  It makes no sense to arrive at a packed trail head and wait for an hour to get on the trail. Nor to have a veritable train of people crawling along a trail. People being passed need to step a ways off the trail, then step back on, and invariably these are the older plodders with heavy packs…making them even slower. …

5) If you get sick, get home if at all possible. Do not infect anyone. Do not touch anything, do not pass go, do not collect $200. After you get home, contact your doctor…if possible. If you cannot make it, attempt to solicit some help. But you will be risking these people. In a few months, this could change with lots of people getting out of the hospital.

 

[jscott]

Hmmm. I just heard a long interview on NPR that involved an infectious disease expert. He’d been looking closely at what worked in Korea and elsewhere. He said that hospital’s there found infections were transmitted in close rooms where doctors weren’t wearing a mask for a period of thirty minutes. Oh and they didn’t wash hands.

I’m not suggesting this is good protocol but it does indicate that if you are outdoors in a parking lot with parked cars but few or no people around, you can safely exit your vehicle. But I suppose James is saying there will be too many people on that trail. still, I’ve been hiking on local trails where I meet people occasionally. We keep distance, pass and carry on. I suppose one could don a mask for that.

and I’n uncertain how using a gas pump will spread corona (wipe it down.)

[James Marco]

Yes. And they are deciding if we should all wear masks whenever we go outside, too. Check the local news for that. A report from Iceland suggests as many as 50% of a population is asymptomatic while communicable. US experts seem to disagree at 25%. All sorts of numbers with no firm agreement.

Use Social Distancing.

Do not touch anything that may have been touched by someone else. Campgrounds, fireplaces, watering holes, and yes, even gas pumps could all be contaminated for three or four days after someone as used them.

[Roger Caffin]

And don’t touch face and wash hands when you get home.

Cheers

[jscott]

Wear a Mask to just walk on my empty street to go to the market (yes inside the market.)? In Tilden park when I only meet three people over four miles?

I wonder. Even if it turns out this is aerosolized, there are still limitations. It’s not in the air at Half Dome.

It’s impossible to not touch anything that someone else may have touched. Frankly it’s impossible not to touch your face.

I agree that we’re hearing all sorts of conflicting things. There’s a piece by an infectious disease specialist posted by Ian in chaff I think where he suggests we don’t need to worry about food or cartons or certainly outdoor fresh air. Other specialists have said this too.

In any case there’s some good news in Ca and the West Coast that social distancing is paying off.

[jscott]

https://modernfarmer.com/2020/04/what-a-food-microbiologist-wants-you-to-know-about-covid-19/

that’s the link.

[Nick Gatel]

Frankly it’s impossible not to touch your face.

 

[Jerry Adams]

Did you take that picture Nick???

No, you don’t need to wear mask when there’s no one else around.  As a public policy though, in Wuhan they made everyone wear a mask when outside.  They are the only ones to have a severe outbreak, then beat it.  Maybe South Korea too, did they make everyone wear masks outside?

I remember Japan in 1980s on a couple trips.  In crowds, there’d occasionally be someone wearing a mask.  Cultural thing in asia if someone is sick to prevent others from getting it.  Easier to institute that in Wuhan?  Or maybe it’s easier to institute in a totalitarian dictatorship : )

[Jerry Adams]

You can touch your face if you haven’t touched a surface someone else could have touched or sneezed on : )

[Dave @ Oware]

Washington state has now closed youth bear and turkey season. Even tho they acknowledged that the hunting itself is remote and not an issue, the stops for gas and groceries would be. The hunting season for bears and turkeys brings a huge influx of hunters from all parts of the state to just a couple of little NE rural counties.

We just lost one of our older church members today in Spokane to the virus. He caught it early before most people thought it was in Spokane. Had been in a medically induced coma for awhile. He was in his 70’s and a very kind person.

[jscott]

“The hunting season for bears and turkeys brings a huge influx of hunters from all parts of the state to just a couple of little NE rural counties.”

and so the ban is a good idea.

Earlier, I was just trying to point out that there’s a wide variety of protocols being put out. I’m not advocating for any one protocol, other than social distancing and not travelling and other established practices. In a week we’ll know more.

[James Marco]

Social distancing is working. But, really not as well as it could. There are way too many exceptions and special circumstances that make it impractical. One person using the toilet at a Wallmart? Hmmm… It doesn’t make sense.

Yes, you can pump gas safely. Take a plastic bag baggie over your card. Put it in the bag and insert it, then remove the card and slip it out carefully with the other hand. Do Not Touch any of the surface that touched the reader on the pump. No receipt needed, of course.

Select your grade and begin fueling. Simply grab and manipulate the pump nozzel through the plastic bag. When you are done, you can carefully turn the bag inside out by only touching the top sleeve (you won’t touch that part) and turn it inside out as you remove your hand. Then you can place it in a “used” klenex box for 3-4 days before using it again. If necessary, you can put a clean klenex over the box top, or, keep it in the trunk for greater safety.

This is very similar to a sterile procedure used for a PPE. (Though they usually use two pair of gloves.) Gas stations used to supply “Gas Gloves” to prevent any spillage and fumes from getting on you. (EEwwww….   ha, hey…)  They are hard to find these days.

The point is to THINK about what you are doing. If you are going to backpack, do it safely. Pick odd points along a trail for lunch, sit and watch critters rather than watching some overwhelming view from a vantage point used by three others that day. Avoid established campsites. Avoid crowds. Avoid groups. Avoid …. well you get the idea… If you absolutely MUST go into a store, wear rain gear and masks. Do Not Use CASH. (This is all a Trumpian-Hoax-to-Register-Every-Dollar-You-Earn-To-Tax-It…I wish.)

Really, it is more about thinking of the other guy as much as you would think about yourself. What would he do? Where would he stop? Where would he sit? You can get out and have a lot of fun. Do it while you have some time off, but insure you do it responsibly.

 

[Jerry Adams]

If there is sufficient social distancing, new cases per day will start dropping

That might be happening in Oregon and Washington, need to see if it continues for another week – people, don’t get lax

The best New York can say is maybe new cases per day has quit increasing, or maybe increasing only a little.  Cuomo closed and fenced off an outdoor play area because people were still using it not social distancing.  They can still walk in parks.  They need to do more.

Maybe San Francisco area new cases per day is dropping

[jscott]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opinion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

Yesterday Fauci wonedered aloud as to why there’s such a huge spectrum of symptoms with covid, from asymptomatic all the way to sudden onset and quick death–as with the young Chinese doctor that blew the whistle on covid. the link suggests an answer which will have implications for everyone. It’s probably about initial viral load. sorta reassuring article given social distancing.

But NOT reassuring for health care workers, although their practices may be effective.

[Jerry Adams]

Good interview of epidemiologist.  I didn’t know there was a similar pandemic in 1957…

[jscott]

“If you generate an aerosol of the virus with no circulation in a room, it’s conceivable that if you walk through later, you could inhale the virus,” Fineberg said. “But if you’re outside, the breeze will likely disperse it.”

Fineberg co authored a report suggesting that Covid might be aeorosolized (sp?) by talking or even breathing. He suggests a mask in a grocery store but not outdoors. and he mentions a balaclava or bandanna being sufficient. (yes we have no bandannas).

the report is not definitive.

[Dave @ Oware]

Looked into masks and materials a bit last night. First ones had wool for barriers. The static charge of the material was a third way to trap the tiny particles. Now it’s mostly polypro. Don’t know it is also uses static besides Brownian action to trap the virus.

Hence Trump’s response about using a scarf has some basis, kinda like his sweeping the forest floor for wildfire prevention also had some basis. (Giving him the benefit of the doubt.)

Oh, the n95 masks that have the vents (not all do) let more particles from the breath of the wearer escape than the other types. So not a good choice for preventing spread when worn by Covid19 positive people.

[Jerry Adams]

sort of like there’s some basis for that malaria medicine.  There’s a clinical trial now.

interesting that N95 masks are actually less effective for preventing transmission, a scarf may actually be better

[Dave @ Oware]

a little bird told me that Governor Jay is about to announce an additional 30 days to the stay at home order.

[Eugene Hollingsworth]

Disbursed camping is a no-go in Minnesota State Forests. I can hike all I want, just can’t go out alone away from the crowds overnight. There goes all the shoulder-season camping for this half of the year.

[jscott]

eugene, is the rationale that all those campers would be travelling from all over?

[Larry M]

Sharing some “enlightening” reading, COVID-19 related, about six minutes:

What Everyone’s Getting Wrong About the Toilet Paper Shortage
https://marker.medium.com/what-everyones-getting-wrong-about-the-toilet-paper-shortage-c812e1358fe0

[Jerry Adams]

Another interesting piece larry.  I’m going to have to peruse medium directly:)

I’ve heard toilet paper called “white gold”

[Author]

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