Tarptent Notch Lithium

“Mind you, if you have photos and wind speeds for some Cuban tents in the field, I would love to see them. But they would need to be up around 100 kph or more to be of serious interest.”

Roger,

Do you have some examples of properly constructed cuben shelters failing due to poor weather? I would be interested to see failures from MLD, HMG, etc.

Hi Ryan

I am sure I have seen photos of ripped seams, but I did not keep any of them. Sorry.
Also, pop-ups and tarps and so on are not used under the sort of conditions I am talking about. You normally get a whole design failure first.

Mind you, I doubt ordinary low-land conditions could cause that sort of failure. The stuff is strong, after all. But yachties have been known to blow out a spinnaker or two. Very $$$.

Cheers

Could be worth watching the full clip…

Well. I saw no guylines. With them I doubt the failure would have happened.

Henry sez the Bowfin is more wind-worthy than my Moment DW but the Bowfin has a similar profile to the Double Rainbow. The Moment DW does not have as much side surface area as the DR and Bowfin and when the Moment DW is guyed out from each side of the main hoop (at the factory guy loops) I know from experience (see below) it will withstand gusts to 65 mph. due to its very aerodynamic shape. Further, I have sewn full length Velcro closures on outer and inner triangular end vents to keep spindrift snow out and it also keeps air from filling the tent from the windward end.

I know a guyed Moment DW will handle high winds  B/C I’ve tested it in those conditions with steady 40 -45 mph winds that day, according to the weather service. Those winds were recorded at the Las Vegas airport (McCarran) and I live 2,000 ft. higher.

And BTW, the Moment was not difficult to set up in those 40- 45 mph winds. Stake windward end, push main pole through sleeve as it lays flat, stake out leeward end then quickly stake out the main hoop  guylines. Fly hem stakes MUST be used in high wind conditions.

Can one download that video? If so, how?
Perhaps not really the best design for the conditions?

Cheers

I can download the video and I did…
You just paste the link into the TEXT window
My reason for posting the video is that it might just give a different idea on what happened.
No , it isn’t the best shelter for high winds but it was set up broad side to the wind on purpose and as noted without extra guylines.
Anyway not many LW shelters would do better, I think…

Seam sealing, 1 person (narrow) inner with sil floor…. No floor seam, yes, but in the corners, no?

Anyway not many LW shelters would do better, I think…
Oh, no worries, I agree with you there.

Um – what TEXT window? I am not a YouTube expert.

Cheers

Hi Roger
sorry I meant the TEXT version of the box you write in your message here not the VISUAL .
I discovered this sometime ago but can’t remember why or how.
So just go to You tube , find the clip you are after and copy the link at the top of the page htpps/…..

Hi Franco

Oh, I can do that.
What I was trying to do was to download the video itself onto my PC. Too many of them disappear after a while.

Cheers

Duplex failure; very foul conditions:

https://www.trek-lite.com/index.php?threads/zpacks-shelters-in-wind-and-rain.4135/

Thanks for the trek-lite link Ed. I get amused by the way UK subjects write. They’re quite good actually.

I see trek-lite already has its own Tarptent Lithium thread going.

Sorry for the thread drift here, but I’d be pretty confident in the new Locus Gear Djedi DCF eVent 4 season dome tent. Weighs 34.5 oz with mesh entrance and 31.4 oz without. Carbon poles are 10.58 oz of the total. Probably wouldn’t hold up to the extreme conditions Roger describes, but solid nonetheless. Of course I won’t mention price (> 1k).

Gixer’s experience with the Duplex in high winds (to which Ed linked) is a great and well loved story, and a perfect example of how equipment (materials and design) must be matched to the conditions.  Just as Cuben, sorry…DCF, is not right in all situations so too is Sil, PU/Sil, etc.

I tend to agree with Roger on this one given the breadth of his personal experience.  However I do not choose to wander in the same environs as he, and find DCF to be the perfect tent material for my conditions.

I bet Henry will sell a boat-load of Lithium tents.

the new Locus Gear Djedi DCF eVent 4 season dome tent.

$1,336 USD… lol

@ ed hyatt,

Ed, that corner failure of Cuben fabric is exactly what Roger is referring to when he says Cuben/Dyneema racing sails are specially reinforced at stress points.

“Specially reinforced” means stress points with several (4 to 6) overlapping and progressively longer layers with radiused ends and specialized stitiching to muchmore evenly distribute stress over a wider area.

I’d want my own Cuben fabric tent to have at least one extra layer at stress points. But that means a tiny bit more weight and more cost for the labor and material. So I guess I’ll stick with my Moment DW until I hit the lottery B/C even though I made my last car payment on the Prius this month it would take two more payments to buy the Lithium. (sigh…)

Locus Gear Djedi
Blimey. $1300 (~) for a pop-up!

The door opens downwards and there is no vestibule. So when it is raining and you want to get in or out of the tent, the rain will pour onto the groundsheet. As is normal for a pop-up.

Very poor ventilation, so in cold weather or in the snow you will get lots of condensation. If it is really cold it might freeze on the roof instead.

I am sure it is well-made and of the finest materials, but the only place/time you could use it comfortably would be in mid-summer when there was no rain. And if there were insects around, you would need a mesh door – available, but extra $$.

Cheers

…the only place/time you could use it comfortably would be in mid-summer when there was no rain.

Another good use for a tent like the Trek-Lite is on a small ledge on a high, cold winter peak. Tents like that (or the BD I-Tent) fit well on small platforms that have no room for guy lines. And they do indeed get a lot of frozen frosty condensation on the inside.

Back to the TT Notch Li – the zipperless doors and magnetic door closures are a nice change from the regular Notch.

Some concerns:

1. We have enjoyed Richard Nisley’s tests of Cuben Fiber laminated nonwoven laminated fabrics, and they provided a good fix on what to expect from a half oz Cuben material in heavy rains and winds, and that is not overly much.  But we have very little guidance about the performance of similar materials with similar weights from the current source.
2. Although TT has designed the Li to get the most usable space for the least weight, 15.2 sq ft  with 43″ height at the peak is still a bit small for a solo trekker.  If the intention is to remain on a wilderness route despite adverse conditions, there will be considerable time spent in the shelter.  Even if the shelter proves impervious to heavy gales of wind and water, I would be cramped (5’10”, 180#).
3. Something a little more aerodynamic in appearance would be more pleasing to the eye and like the MP Olympus and its progeny, suggest security from the elements.  Two upright poles mostly unsupported by anything more than half oz unwoven dynema matrix do not inspire confidence. Maybe form is not the best evidence of function, and this should not be a concern, but that has not been my experience in most cases.  At least some agree, judging from the interest in a Moment type design also using this dyneema material.
4. Not clear that the mesh or fabric inner includes the area under the two long sidewalls.  But if it does. I’d want to know how taut are the inner sidewalls overhead, and what is the distance between them and the outer wall.
5. Thls is billed as an approx. 20 ounce shelter, and I’ve found that TT, unlike the larger companies, has been honest in expressing weights to include the whole enchilada.  So given the greater difficulties working with Cuben than nylon (LHG Judy’s laments are legend), the big questions for DYIers, become how much more than 20 oz would be a slightly more spacious tent using Rockywoods 7D mini ripstop coated nylon for an outer, and would it be as durable?
6. Other than that, the catenary seam lines on the Li appear to be very well done, and when buttoned up, the profile is clean and reassuring.  P.S. It’s 8.23 PM here in NH.

Eric, did your question about downloading get answered?

It’s pretty simple.

• Go to the video at youtube.com by clicking on the logo in the lower righthand corner
• Copy the url
• Go to one of many online video download sites and enter the url. I just successfully tested it at the first site listed in a search: https://y2mate.com/

Michael,

Roger was asking about SAVING the clip not just downloading .

I tried with your link but could not figure out how to save , just play.

Sam ,

Re your comment N 2 , are you aware that the Notch has been for sale for six years ?

The Li does have a couple of minor design changes but the structure/size  is exactly the same .

Downloading the video worked for me using the link for y2mate. Once the video opens in a new window right click the video and choose save video as, pick the spot you want to save and the name for the video and click save. Using Firefox on Ubuntu if it matters.

Even if the shelter proves impervious to heavy gales of wind and water, I would be cramped\

Try laying down under a Notch sometime (DCF or silnylon) if you get the chance. The height of 43″ must only be the inside of the inner net tent – the tarp itself is higher than that. And it can be pitched higher by a few inches for even more head room if it’s pleasant weather. The struts at the ends make it feel more roomy for the head and feet than most other shaped tarps of the same overall length.

Compared to things like the Zpacks Hexamid Solo Plus or SMD Deschutes tarps, the Notch fly (with no inner) feels palatial for one person. After taking some measurements, the Notch fly could even fit two people in a pinch by setting the poles in a V shape, meeting at the ground in the middle (though it would be snug). Not the best choice for winter use or for sustained windy conditions, but a well-tested and well-liked design for general 3 season use, especially for people who use trekking poles (dual function).

Sorry, I see it was Roger, not Eric, that asked how to download. At the site https://y2mate.com/ , once you enter the video’s url, click on one of the 3 download choices at the mp4 tab.

There are dozens of sites like this. They all work about the same.

You can also use programs, such as ClipGrab, instead of another website, but either way works fine.

Thanks guys. I will investigate further.

Cheers