Tarptent Notch Lithium

“A MODEST PROPOSAL”

I suggest that Ryan move this thread to the “Tarptent Thread”.

Jus’ saying’…

Re:  are you aware that the Notch has been for sale for six years ?

&     Try laying down under a Notch sometime (DCF or silnylon) if you get the chance. … feels palatial

The modified One Planet Goondie that I use has a little over 22 sq feet of floor plus elbow room from a dome shape.  So if the Notch and Li are palatial, guess I prefer palatial squared.  But the Goondie doesn’t feel that way, it feels like just about enough for me and a small dog or two as a home away from home (actually the house leaks more than the tent – a lot of work to do this spring).

The Goondie mod was posted on BPL, as well an “XX” design for a solo semi-dome which hope to get done some day, and has a floor 90″ x 36″ and a peak around 45″.  So I like to live in a tent, not just squeeze into it when I have to.  In bygone days, 3′ x 8′  was common from brands like Eureka for a solo tent.  The Goondie is 15D nylon plus a net inner, and the XX will have an inner of the 0.7 oz yellow stuff extrem textil says is on sale because not durable (too loosely woven) but have been selling for several years now.  The Goondie mod is 2# 5 oz, and with the 7D nylon, the XX will be lighter.  There have been very positive reports in BPL about the 7D nylon, so am thinking that around 30 oz, or just under 2# is achievable and spacious.  In recent years, I get the feeling that the powers that be are constantly trying to persuade us that less is more.  They even have a term for it, “the new normal.”  After a day of backpacking, I vote for comfort if it can be built light & tough, and am AOK with an abnormal tent.

After a day of backpacking, I vote for comfort if it can be built light & tough, and am AOK with an abnormal tent.

A good night’s sleep is definitely worth the weight, whatever it takes to get it. Everyone’s mileage will vary, but for me an extra 8 ounces of sleeping pad provides more comfort than an extra 8 ounces for a larger tarp for most three season trips.

Sam; have you had much experience with the 7D from rockywoods? I think I remember Aaron S making a shaped tarp from it but that’s all.

The RBTR Robic 7D looks interesting*. PU coating, Kyle made it with enough coating to maintain reasonable breathability and 1000mm HH. In the blurb they mention “tarps”. Not sure I’d be comfortable making a tarp from such unless I was also using a WPB bivy. But it would be interesting to see how strong and durable it is, and whether taking it up to ~.8oz with extra coating makes it well above 1500mm HH (I suspect so) while still leaving a smidge of breathability.

I’d be interested to know how such a woven fabric with coating on one side fares vs cuben which is a loose weave inside mylar. The Mylar develops the holes over time, which is where the HH starts coming down with age. Aged HH tests of such would be great.

Sorry I’ve thread drifted slightly, though, such types of fabrics are also of potential use to tents of the style in question, if they meet requirements.

*(I’d love to get my hands on this and other new fabrics all the time, alas, I’m in Aus so shipping just to try is a bit painful).

Adam, I made this tarp out of 7d Rockywoods awhile back. Finished dimensions are 9′ X 4′ 8″. It has 10 bonded and reinforced 7d tieouts. Weighs 4.7 oz. I left it pitched out in my yard for a week, and I tied it out pretty taught just to see how well the material would hold up. It never faced winds over about 20 mph, so I can’t say how tough it really is, but it seems quite strong for 7d. No signs of tearing. I love the Rockywoods 7d.

As you’re probably already aware, the Gossamergear 1 and 2 are 7d. So are the new MSR Carbon Reflex, Nemo Hornet and the Nordisk Lofoten (which is the FKT tent I lust after the most).

I’d love to see a saddle 2 in Cuben.

Adam; there were several threads on BPL about the RW 7D, all positive, and one thread even suggested using it for a floor.  Ordered about 10 yards, and was impressed with the PU/SIL coating, and the mini ripstop weave.  Very elastic, so it should resist punctures, but don’t have the equip to test tear strength, though I think there are some numbers on the RW website.  Did test it for sag, and despite the high elasticity, sag was minimal for SIL/PU coated nylon.  It comes in a light gray, much like the color TT has used.  Richard N tested its HH, and it was high, but forget the number.  NEMO has put out solo and duo tents in 7, 10 and 15D.

RBTR may offer the sub one oz robic with a high HH coating also.  That would be a winner.  But I would not expect a DWR coat alone to work for the outer wall of a tent.  One of the cottage companies tried that with tarps.  They are no longer in business.

Pride dropped to $599

Roger

“Really? Sorry, but you are simply wrong. I build tents for extreme conditions – tunnel tents, and my wife and I live in them under extreme conditions. We KNOW how they behave.”

Out of curiosity how many tents have you built out of DCF?

I was sent some Cuban, way back then, and experimented with it. I noticed the lack of stretch or elasticity, which worried me. So I ran up some small sewn test panels and worked them over. At the same time I made up some silnylon test samples and worked them over. I very quickly came to the conclusion that Cuban was not suitable for a tunnel tent, as the panels on a tunnel need to stretch a bit when it is erected.

Also I noticed that the needle holes in Cuban tended to grow quite a bit under tension. This would be problematic with a tunnel tent in a storm unless you use very wide tapes with a permanent bond adhesive. I tested this too, and the problem I found there was that the taped joints tended to be rather stiff.

After that there were at least two other people who made up tunnels out of Cuban using my patterns. I did warn them beforehand about the problems I could foresee. After they had tested them a bit in the field they confirmed what I had been thinking.

So the short answer is that I have not built any out of Cuban, but the longer answer explains why.

Cheers

Roger – Thank you for your post.  It would be good to know if the Dimension Polyant (DP) material is the same that was marketed as Cuben Fiber earlier.  In any case, I have encountered similar issues as you have with the earlier Cuben (I think it is spelled with an e, not an a, as in a citizen of Cuba)

Adam – Richard Nisley’s test of Rockywoods 7 denier, 0.7 osy coated ripstop is at (double click the popdown):

//backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/108230/

Richard’s post was dated 12/7/2015 and is very positive with respect to water resistance, and shows much higher water resistance than his earlier test of Cuben on the ‘Dirty little secret’ thread.  The OP, Renee Ravenel, also posted a bit later about tear resistance.

Rockywoods’ current product page includes tear data and is at:

//www.rockywoods.com/7D-Ultralight-Coated-Ripstop-Nylon-Fabric

Hope this is helpful.

Hi Sam

Cuban, Cuben … whatever. I keep forgetting :)

It would be good to know if the Dimension Polyant (DP) material is the same that was marketed as Cuben Fiber earlier.
I can not imagine any situation where a DP fabric would be the same as a Cuben fabric. They are competitors in the sail market after all.
Eh, but I might be wrong. Who knows?

Cheers

Nordisk Lofoten sure looks nice Monte…thanks for the heads up! Or should I say, head’s down…it doesn’t have much head clearance hehe. 17.28oz for the single person version is impressive. The price is scary though!

Roger,
My mistake. Cubic Tech was acquired by DSM, not DP.
I should have inquired about whether the DSM material is the same that was marketed by Cubic Tech earlier. Sorry for the confusion.

I’m trying to understand the excitement here. 19.9 oz–does that include stakes?  The Solplex from Zpacks is around 15.5 oz, maybe 17 oz including stakes.  And cheaper, I think.

double wall, 2 doors and only 4 stakes are needed

^^^

… and significant height above face and feet.

Whoa!  I stop back in here for the first time in forever and what do I see?  A Sign Of The Apocalypse!

A cuben TarpTent ?!?

and that does include stuff sack and stakes

I’m trying to understand the excitement here.

1. Tarptent makes well-loved, respected and innovative LW tents.
2. Historically, Tarptent has been a well-known critic of Cuben (DCF) fabric for tents.
3. Now all of the sudden Tarptent is making DCF tents, expanding their great designs deeper into the UL category.
4. And finally, the topic of Cuben (DCF) is always inherently exciting :-)

How is the notch in terms of space? I’d read reviews that said it is pretty tight inside.

How is the notch in terms of space? I’d read reviews that said it is pretty tight inside.

For a lightweight, one-person tent, the Notch has sufficient space inside the inner tent for “normal” height persons and a moderate amount of lightweight gear. And the dual vestibules are huge by one-person tent standards IMHO. However, if you have a big backpack and lots of gear inside, or if you’re tall, then you (or your gear) may feel cramped compared to larger tents.

As a side entry tent, your head and feet are somewhat close to the underside of the fly, which may feel tight to people who are unaccustomed to smaller shelters. That being said, the struts at the ends do a good job of lifting the fly into the air. This lifting creates more interior volume at the head and feet, especially when the tent is pitched a little high. But one person’s castle is another’s cabin, so YMMV.

No offense, but I see Tarptent as being somewhat behind the curve in the UL shelter market.  I ordered a Rainbow and returned it.  Not impressed at all.  Granted, they make some relatively affordable shelters such as the Rainshadow 3 which I own for family backpacking.  But for 1-person and 2-person UL shelters, I don’t think there’s really anything out there that beats the options from Zpacks.  I don’t really see them as “innovative” either.  They might have been innovative 10 years ago, but today if you want to be #1 in the market you need to find a way to outdo Zpacks.  I also don’t see the need for two doors in a 1-person shelter.  Unnecessary weight.  Give me a shelter that weighs less than my Zpacks Hexamid and is fully enclosed and I’ll be interested.

Not trying to offend anyone here, but just trying to understand why the Tarptents are so “well-loved.”

I ordered a Rainbow and returned it.

You ordered and returned a Double Rainbow, not a Rainbow, and it was in 2009.

The Rainbow and Double Rainbow both had major revisions in 2010 so you didn’t even have a current model about which to comment.

The Notch Li is full double wall, double side entrance and the fly and/or interior can be set up independently. I invite you to compare it to any other Dyneema solo model on the market.

Wow, it was that long ago?  You must keep meticulous records.  You are correct, I haven’t seen the current model Rainbow.  Again, I’m not trying to offend–I still own and use the Rainshadow 3 for family camping.  I haven’t found anything else that compares in that price range for a 3-person shelter.  I was just suggesting that Zpacks is the company to beat here in the UL market for 1-2 person shelters.  I doubt anyone would argue with this statement.  I didn’t know that the fly and interior could be set up independently.  That’s a nice feature; however, the Solplex and Duplex are nice enough without that option and have become the go-to UL 1-2 person shelters of choice for good reason.  (I personally use the Hexamid, but I see the virtues of those two shelters for most).  I do suggest that you lower the price to $550 to be competitive with the Solplex, as most thru-hikers are going with that these days (or the Duplex).  I think the Duplex is around 21 oz with stakes and has an incredible space/weight ratio.