Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD)

Despite apparent years of good reviews and satisfied customers, someone f'ed something up and without a moment's delay, out come the knives. I'm sure people not even involved will be demanding a public apology from Ron soon.

Some community.

the truth revealed

Despite apparent years of good reviews and satisfied customers, someone f'ed something up and without a moment's delay, out come the knives. I'm sure people not even involved will be demanding a public apology from Ron soon.

Some community.

I've been too busy with work to chime in after Ron's response (before it was taken down).

+1 to what Craig said.

While I think on one hand it is important not to rake Yang over the coals, at the same time I think it is important for all of us to remember how GOOD SMD's customer service and product quality has been over the years, and not crucify them either. I doubt extremely that anyone involved with this whole affair, on both sides of the issue, meant any harm or was trying to cause trouble. Who knows if one of the SMD staff were having a bad day, whether someone missed an email. whether one or both sides simply misunderstood what the other wrote. It's a human issue with most likely human misses, and nothing more. I think Yang ought to be given a fair shake, but I also think the same of SMD. Give them a chance! Give them a chance to work things out! A lot of really bad and destructive feelings are being generated here, all around.

….actually that's all I wanted to say.

This is a community?

Tongue…meet cheek.

Sure. Can I borrow your lawn mower?

"A lot of really bad and destructive feelings are being generated here, all around."

The only destructive feelings here are being generated by those who are giving Yang and those who are sympathetic to him a hard time. If you re-read this thread most of the earlier posts were perfectly civilised, as was Yang's original post. All he did was bring a case of poor customer service to the attention of the community. Whether or not this was a 1 in 1 million case or whatever is irrelevant. This is exactly the sort of thing that community forums are for.

The most unreasonable, immature and unpleasant people in this thread are those like John Abela et al. who miss the point and get up in arms to "defend" someone (Ron) who isn't even being attacked! Yang didn't say SMD, or Ron, or Brandon were evil or dishonest. He said that he felt burnt by his dealings with them and that he was 100% understandably disappointed and perplexed. Posting that information here is not defamatory or mean-spirited, it is a perfectly reasonable and defensible line of action for someone who feels that they, for whatever reason, got the short end of the stick.

Honestly, how does anyone not get this?

I have some SMD stuff and I like it.
I would, and in fact will, order again, because I need something that they make.

I'm sorry that this happened to the buyer, and also the fallout on SMD.
I'll just move along based on how things work out with my purchases.
People are not perfect, mistakes happen, people get defensive or irritable, and that's the way things are. Sometimes this results in lost business and regrets.

From my business perspective, I agree with the comments that it is much better to solve the issue so that it results in better PR for the company, even if it costs money and time to do it, and even if it obliterates any profit made. The PR is worth it.
In my own business, I recently suffered some parts broken by UPS insured shipping to my customer, and UPS tried to squirm out of paying the insurance claim, and in fact they never paid the insurance claim for their breakage. But I sent brand new parts to the customer, at my $400 expense, lost all my profits and also went into a loss over it. In the end, the customer was very happy with my handling of the situation, I'll eventually recover from my loss, and I'll never do any shipping with UPS ever again.
My business reputation didn't suffer, and this will help me to recover from that loss and help my future growth.

I guess no matter what you print or how you state it there will always be customers who are too ignorant to do stuff right. Probably 1 in a 1000 customers is this way.

So what is the best way to handle these outliers?

Retailers are reviewed, too bad buyers can't be as well. "I'm sorry sir/madam but you have too many negative reviews, we can't sell to you".

I hate seeing BPL used to beat up on a 1st rate supplier.

**

I guess no matter what gets offered in writing or how a business states it will handle the situation, there will always be owners who are too ignorant to do stuff right. Probably 1 in a 10 owners is this way. That's why most business fail.

So what is the best way to handle these outliers?

Retailers are reviewed, and customers get to make an informed decision when spending money.

I hate seeing BPL used to beat up on a 1st rate customer who tried to resolve the issue with the company and kept the paper trail to show his intentions.

–G.B.–

Does SMD make a shelter that protects from bad exposure ? Haven't seen goodwill thrown all over the ground like this since Kookabay. When the storm clears, we might need a framed pack to haul it out. Hard to imagine turning a customer wanting a cuben upgrade into a PR disaster of this magnitude.

wow… so much goodwill Ron has built up over the years thrown away for $20. This is a word to the wise: If you get something defective from Ron, do not return it to him, just charge back your credit card and make him come to your house to pick up the defective item. I personally will just stay away from SMD.

Ron: Your customer service representative promised to refund return shipping costs to Yang. You reneged on that contractually written promise after the fact. Your problem is with your customer service representative, not your customer… but now you have made it all of your customers problem. Yo make some really great products but this is not going to be good for your business.

"This is a word to the wise: If you get something defective from Ron, do not return it to him, just charge back your credit card and make him come to your house to pick up the defective item. I personally will just stay away from SMD."

OK let's not get crazy. I'm sure 99.9% of the time Ron and SMD offer great, genuine help to customers who request it.

"I hate seeing BPL used to beat up on a 1st rate customer who tried to resolve the issue with the company and kept the paper trail to show his intentions."

Let's not use BPL to bash anyone! Except of course those with 30+ lb base weight.

Zorg,

In my case, I have all communications documented in the emails. Tell me what made you think I am 1/1000 ignorant customers?

"1st rate supplier"? Which authority defined that? I heard Six Moon Designs from this forum and some similar posts as yours gave me a false feeling that this was a company I could trust and give my business with. But my personal experience did not concor that. You can say it is YOUR "1st rate supplier", but not mine.

*************************

I guess no matter what you print or how you state it there will always be customers who are too ignorant to do stuff right. Probably 1 in a 1000 customers is this way.

So what is the best way to handle these outliers?

Retailers are reviewed, too bad buyers can't be as well. "I'm sorry sir/madam but you have too many negative reviews, we can't sell to you".

I hate seeing BPL used to beat up on a 1st rate supplier

I get what your complaint is, but this:
" posts as yours gave me a false feeling that this was a company I could trust and give my business with"……Seems disproportionate to the "offense".
I see a mistake, I don't suddenly see a company that is niot to be trusted.
It's easy to get carried away and I think we have done some if that here.

Kat, I appreciate you point this out. I think different people have different views. That is why I used the word "I" and "my business".

Yang has a legitimate complaint – I've not been reimbursed for return shipping on defective product more times than I can count and it is definitely annoying. And SMD's response left something to be desired. But in the end we're talking about $20 which in my opinion doesn't even remotely warrant the giant dogpile in this thread – hasn't everyone got better things to do??

hasn't everyone got better things to do??

its BPL so … HELL NO …

like i said "publicity" works both ways … those who chant rah rah rah over some gear makers now start accusing a perfectly valid complaint on such gear maker

heres WHY people need to be able to state their good OR bad experiences …once BPLers try to suppress anything they dont like to hear … you end up with situations like these

so people can make their OWN judgement … and not get swept up in the fervor …

"1st rate supplier"? Which authority defined that? I heard Six Moon Designs from this forum and some similar posts as yours gave me a false feeling that this was a company I could trust and give my business with. But my personal experience did not concor that. You can say it is YOUR "1st rate supplier", but not mine.

;)

True that, if you can't take your first world problems to a internet forum, then where else can you express them?…because I'm sure my spouse wouldn't want to hear about it ;-)

SMD does list a phone number on their web site. Perhaps a polite phone call could turn this experience around. Please accept my apology if you tried this as I may have missed it in all of the flames and train wrecks posted above.
That having been said, I'll agree with Jen, let's all just go outside now.

"…let's all just go outside now."

+1

North Cascades NP in 24 hrs!

Yang Lu wrote – "In my case, I have all communications documented in the emails. Tell me what made you think I am 1/1000 ignorant customers?"

I've read you OP multiple times. 95% of it was whining/complaining/moaning/venting about your own mistakes. Yea, you made multiple mistakes. Ultimately you got told "NO" because you screwed up. The key here is that YOU SCREWED UP. And instead of making a phone call to SMD to clear things up, you continue to bash them on a public forum, obviously enjoying your "victim" status amongst your supporters. So you have created and maintained a "pity thread".

I'm gonna buy some more gear from SMD now, (and I certainly don't need anything), just to show my support. I'm glad I'm not in the retail business.

mmmmmm …. and they say BPL has no fanbois ;)

Is it possible that SMD is the target of an elaborate corporate hatchet job? In a conspiracy you need to either follow the money or find out who has the most to gain. When I use this logic it became clear. Brian Frankle goes to work for Ron. A non compete runs out and Frankle is now able to use his incredible skills to create gear that no one can resist. The big three GG ,TT and ULA are acutely aware that the balance of power has been irrevocably altered. A plan is hatched and a clandestine meeting is arranged. The big three brought in the rest of the "cottage" industry players and a consensus was reached. Frankle could not be allowed to pen to paper or needle to tread. This is just speculation but it looks like Hill and Knowlton and Monsantoand maybe even North Korean government were brought in to take out this new threat. I fear Ron and Brian are being held in a non disclosed location while the besmirching campaign is being carried out. Posts posted and then being expunged from the record and then miraculously reappear in the thread. Conspiracy 101 in my opinion.

I have had no quality issues with a Christmas time, discounted, Starlight pack I bought from Ron about 3 years ago. There are many great retailers/cottage industries to select from, if one does not have the gear that suits your needs, you go to one that does. OP was going off of feedback here. Too bad this has gone this far.
Duane