Open Letter: Don’t make the Gear Swap for members only

Since this thread is getting really long, I just wanted to restate that I am watching the comments and have alerted Ryan to the thread(s). He's presently out of town and attending to the passing of a relative so I don't expect any official response from him until after the holidays.

Fred,

I completely agree with you regarding the Home page and that it is all about CONTENT!

Your points on the home page are spot on in my opinion.

Frankly, the Home page sucks and really is an under utilized bit of space to provide compelling bits of useful information (free information) that would entice someone to become a member of BPL.

All that I can tell you is that the "wiping" of the home page and simplication of the home page is step one in getting the home page reformatted to something better.

Various ideas have been put forth about the home page:

1. Weekly advice column to answer question submitted by the public

2. Photo of the week, photos submitted by the public

3. Gear Highlight/Profile: giving a free mini review or info on a UL product

4. Rotating "Core" Articles explaining UL/Lightweight backpacking & how to do it

These were just a few ideas that came up to make the home page more interesting and giving a reason to invite guest back to visit the webpage. More visits, more opportunities to show value and entice a guest to become a members of BPL.

I view the home page as answering the fundamental question of:

What is UL/Lightweight backpacking and how do I lighten my pack weight?

It is not reasonable to ask someone to sign up for a Membership if you don't understand the basics of UL/Lightweight backpacking.

Hopefully, in answering this basic question, it will spark further interest in how to lighten their load and show the value of buying a membership.

Kristen,

YES, the fundamental question behind all of this is: What does BPL want to be?

I think the answer is: A Membership/Subscription Based Website that answers the question of what is UL/lightweight backpacking and how to lower your pack weight.

Anything else, ads, money from gear swap, etc….would be supplimental income.

Lastly, regarding only asking MLife members for their input. Well, my opinion based on nothing, is that asking MLife members might have been creating a partial solution to an unintended problem when the MLife membership option was created.

I think that creating the MLife membership came at a time when things may have been financially desperate for BPL and it was a great value to those who took it and it gave BPL a quick infusion of needed cash.

Unfortunately, there were promises made and had to be made up benefits unique to MLife members…with the closing of the Gear Shop, some felt that the value of the MLife membership was less than promised or simply had less value. (I agree that looking at what was going to be promised with the MLife membership vs. what was actually delivered…it fell short, but I do find value in MLife purely in saving myself money in the long term for membership fees). Opening up the discussion to just MLife members may have been an attempt to offer something unique and "special" to those MLife members.

Does it mean that non members/non-MLife opinions don't count? Hardly. In fact, the reason I have have started a few threads on the forum was to solicit everyone's opinion and I think that Ryan Jordan and staff values all the input that can be given.

Unfortunately, MLife membership may have created a tierred membership class system that generated resentment or made people feel "less than".

I tend to look at the MLife situation for what it most likely was….a "desperate" need at the time to generate cash to keep the lights on and keep the website going. perhaps hastily conceived that caused some problems within the community.

For me, I am just glad that the lights are on and that I know that BPL is evolving to something better. Closing the gear shop was a 1st step and a hard step to take in that direction.

Looking forward to what 2012 will bring and I am hoping that when the time is right, likely after the holidays, that we will hear from Ryan Jordan to give us some sense of what the future holds for all of us here.

-Tony

Chris,

Thank you for the update and for letting Ryan Jordan know about this thread.

Fact is, family is more important than this debate at the moment and he can deal with this later, when he has time.

Please pass along well wishes and sorry for his loss, made all the more difficult at this holiday season.

-Tony

I've been on here for a few months now and only just this week saw that there are non-member only articles. All ive heard/seen has been forums are free.. articles are for members.

Tony I like your ideas. even go one further and say there should be a photo gallery. people probably take awesome pictures and the forum doesn't really give them justice. It would also be a good way to show off gear actually being used. It's one thing for someone to post up a list of the stuff they have but show me a set up in the field and that is far more interesting.

Jake,

I think that the problem with much of the website is the poor organization of the great wealth of information that lies in the older articles and in this forum.

Sadly, the current setup is good for looking at the newest articles…finding the golden nuggest of wisdom in the past in very difficult.

Rule one of Bussiness: Be Easy to Do Business With!

In this case, BPL is in the business of educating and providing information.

If you can not search for it easily and find it, less value in being a member.

Also, the older "core" articles, like the BPL Book, are out of date and should be refreshed once per year so that the information and example products are current and relavent to the reader/new member.

As for photo galleries….I think that the value of them is two part.

1. Gives people a reason to return to the website to see new photos

(Maybe they come back to see if THEIR photo was selected to be posted as pic of the week…if so, they might tell their friends, who visit the website to see friend's photo- generates more traffic to BPL).

2. Photos can provide inspiration for people to get out and take trips. See gear being used in the field.

We can talk about gear, but how about showing me how it is used in the field.

Make me drool over a very cool photo with some UL gear in it that makes me want to go and get out on the trail!

And yes….keep it interesting so that I want to come back to BPL.

More visits, more chances for someone to decide to sign up for a membership.

Marc,

I agree with you for the need to broaden the appeal of the BPL website…fact is, more appeal to a wider audience, the larger pool of potential members to sign up for a membership.

However, we do have to acknowledge that UL/SUL/XSUL people are freaking NUTS! By definition, THIS is the fringe of backpacking and will never be mainstream.

That said, there are many elements of Lightweight/UL Backpacking that can benefit any traditional backpacker.

Offering those "Core" articles are part of the membership and clearly advertising them on the Home Page would go a long way to showing the value for signing up for a membership.

Not everyone will become a UL backpacker…technically, I am at a base weight of 10.5-11 lbs, which means I am lightweight. But I definitely have benefited tremendously from the knowledge found here to lower my pack weight.

So the point is, let the public know that you might not be interested in having 10 lbs base weight, but would you like to have a pack that weights 30 lbs vs. the 50 lbs that you are carrying now?

-Tony

"A Membership/Subscription Based Website that answers the question of what is UL/lightweight backpacking and how to lower your pack weight."

I agree that BPL publically clarifying its focus would be most welcome. The length and proliferation of these threads proves to me that there's a perhaps greater than normal investment in the community here. And I'm glad to see productive discussion of that.

While I think the first part of the above formulation has to be the first focus, I think making the "how" part a major focus is misguided. It's a sufficiently simple and mundane subject that unless BPL wants to be Backpacker and republish the same articles (for all intents and purposes) every 18 months content will be hard to come by. I'd rather see the focus be "What is UL backpacking, and what can I do with it?" In and of itself a light pack is both boring and meaningless.

+1 Dave. Many other hobby magazines seem to me to get trapped in the how to area and realise that what they are talking about isn't all that complex. The result is rehashing the same article time and again. If BPL ended up like Backpacker Magazine or Outdoor Photographer I would quickly loose interest. These magazines seem to be heavy on advertising and low on useful content to me. Many of the articles on BPL would NEVER get published in a traditional mag.

David,

I might disagree with you a little bit, but I understand where you are coming from.

To me, I think that someone can get 95% of what they need to know to become UL within 1 to 2 years of becoming a member.

After that, being here is to keep up with the State of the Market, and for social/entertainment reasons.

If you agree with the premise that there is a rotating membership that signs up to learn what UL/lightweight backpacking is….figuring that the compelling reason to have a membership is a window of 1-3 years to learn all about how to lower your packweight, then new membership has to be the key focus.

Hence why I believe that those "Core" beginner/newbie articles are so imporant.

That said, BPL can not ignore the core long term members who contribute a ton of knowledge in the forums and are likely to be contributing writers and authors of articles to be published online.

I would say that your point on Providing INSPIRATION on how to use that UL Gear would be goal #2.

As we all know….what is the point of having all this UL gear if you don't get out on the trail and use it?

Having articles on technique in the field and trip reports would do well to serve the "mature" and educated UL/lightweight backpackers.

I agree with you that BPL needs to have a Mission Statement/Focus, but I just think that the focus #1 needs to be the newbie/traditional backpacker who is looking to lower their packweight and BPL being the solution to their problem/answer to their questions.

-Tony

bpl will always be a great place to hang out and gain information on ul backpacking while i totally understand the reasoning behind making the gear swap for members only i can t say that i feel its fair to do this however everyone has an opinion on the subject and this is only mine the debates over it could go on for months and i would hate to see friendships lost over a difference of opinion

people here always welcome newcommers with open arms and are willing to share great information to help others lighten up thier packs after hiking with some of the folks here on a few different trips i can tell you that folks here are some of the coolest people you could ever meet and camp with and i really hope that bpl doesn t become something that it is not a members only site where (pay to play ) would become the norm and not the option

divr6347

Pretty shocking how important gear swap is to some.

You can still share stories of gear, pictures of trips with gear, journals of myo gear…

Was there ever a clear decision to avoid advertisements?
YES. Right from the start. I will quote Dirk R:

> Management costs, bandwidth usage, and most certainly, editorial control. It is difficult
> to remain impartial in the wake of advertising. Advertisers often have influence on all but the
>most powerful and well-funded publishers, if for no other reason than publishers depend on advertisements.

Is BPL a niche web-zine?
YES. Unashamedly.

Does it cost serious money to run the BPL web site with it's weekly publication of articles?
YES.
Comparisons with university web sites are pointless: their budgeting methods can only be described as 'interesting'.

Cheers

Kevin,

I think that the future of BPL has to include guest and should never be 100% pay to play.

Fact is, it is unreasonable to expect someone to part with their hard earned money if they don't have a taste/clue of what BPL has to offer.

In order to provide that taste of what BPL has to offer, it demands that there is some free content available to guest that would entice them to WANT to become members.

Honestly, one of the challenges to BPL is the user community itself.

There are a lot of knowledge people here who are great at passing along wisdom to the newer people.

The challenge for BPL then is….what can it provide that is worth paying for that can not be found for free on the forums.

Maybe part of the solution is to limit access to information….control of information is power. People pay for information that they can not get for free.

We can debate the merrits of free exchange of information or about the value of creating artificial barriers to accessing information, but the fact remains that BPL is going to be in the business of educating people and that means providing information.

-Tony

+1 on a set of "Beginner's Guide to UL" or some set of core articles like that. As a newer member transitioning to a lighter pack, this would do a couple of things:

1. I would know where to go when I got started and could find comprehensive information. Also, each article could continue to have a forum attached, where information/perspectives of others could be added.

2. It would unclutter the forums. There are a lot of newbie posts on here (and I've added to them for sure) that continue to rotate through. It's kind of defacto Backpacker situation, just in the forums. Uncluttering the forums would make it easier for more intermediate/advanced discussion to take place, hopefully keeping older members renewing. Unless there is a compelling reason to re-write the article (major shifts in the industry, new innovations, etc.), they should just stay up as long as necessary. Older articles already written by staff could be re-organized into this structure (i.e. the one on footwear systems for snowshoeing that takes forever to find in the search function).

3. If you solicited long-time members to write the articles on a contract basis, it would also increase their investment in the site, likely leading to more renewed memberships.

I also like the photography contest idea, more trip reports, and anything that really inspires me to keep going outside. I'd also love to see Ryan, Roger, and others answer two-three weekly questions, offering their perspectives on particular issues.

One thing I've seen no one mention is conservation related content. Since I'm not educated in that field, I have a steep learning curve as I try to educate myself. On top of that, I don't always know where to look. Even a bibliographical article or regular reviews of conservation issues would keep me coming.

Those are my few thoughts.

Jason, I agree.. with my other 2 main hobbies Rock climbing and road cycling you pretty much have read most of the general techniques in a year or 2. after that your time on the forum is either teaching others or chatting with friends.

what keeps people around is talking about new innovations or new techniques that come along. I'm sure there was a large upsurge when Silnylon came out, Spinnaker, Cuben, etc. Different stove, tent/tarp designs, and backpacks will always be fun to talk about. Hell I have NO way of buying a cuben tarp but it's really cool to look at. it's like watching Top Gear for the Lambo's and Zondas.

that said people will always want to upgrade. which means getting rid of the old stuff. This year i sold my old 3-4lb 1p tent and bought a tarptent. and when they get rid of one thing that opens the door to buy something else. smaller shelter.. can get a smaller pack. Which is why i think the gear swap should be open to all. Right now anyone can buy stuff but not everyone can sell. it messes up the cycle.

Someone said that the gear sales were taking over the "newest post" section. the gear threads should be edited out of that. on RC.com we have basically the Chaff section and it is not reflected on the front page or Newest posts. If gear selling is all that is being talked about then perhaps the articles need to be stepped up.

On rockclimbing.com i've been posting for 8 years and have almost 11,000 posts. with no monetary investment i believe i've passed on enough information and clicked the site enough times to have contributed to the community. When i started i barely knew anything. Now I am at a fairly advanced level of knowledge. Point is that if you push new folks out you could be losing an expert down the line.

I agree with Tony. I think BPL would benefit greatly by expanding content to include more articles that "motivate" people to use their UL gear. I think most of the people here are reasonably obsessed with gear, and the SOTM reports, etc., are the best professional reviews I've come across. However, after sinking a reasonable amount of money into UL gear, I don't think the majority of people will want to replace it the next year. (Though I'm sure many do.) Thus, the great gear reviews lose some value once you've geared up.

I really enjoy the post-trip reports section of the forum and the "places" articles. I think a more regular appearance of these would put more emphasis on motivating people. Obviously, we don't need another "100 Hikes" book on here, or a writeup that tells us that the JMT is a special place. But maybe some organization could be added to group these routes by a rough estimation of difficulty in terms of terrain, but also for the ability to go UL in said terrain. UL backpacking is different at Point Reyes, Yosemite, the desert, alpine, etc. The guidebooks everyone buys don't feature much in terms of gear, and I think BPL could fill a void in the market. Given the endless opportunities out there, perhaps this approach could add a bit more regularity to the appearance of content, and a well-organized database for reference as the backpacker's goals and knowledge evolves.
I think this is a very good article, with a specific route, gear load, and a description of the difficulty:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/sul_with_my_kid_brother.html

+1 on a set of "Beginner's Guide to UL" or some set of core articles like that. As a newer member transitioning to a lighter pack, this would do a couple of things:

Perhaps a free digital copy of Ryan's book on lightweight backpacking with each new membership.

"I really enjoy the post-trip reports section of the forum and the "places" articles."

Apple Computer had 'evangelists.' GG has 'trail ambassadors.' BPL only has moderators….. ;-) Perhaps they could use something like the previous examples.

deleted

Doug,

I agree with you.

Can I vote for you?

You have a big mouth and always have an opinion….hehehehe. (with love and respect).

-Tony

Rog,

Great points and I do agree with you…think it will be a question of priority between satisfying the newbie and the experience ULer.

Once the short term goal, as I see it, of taking care of the newbie with "core" articles is taken care of…then it should free up time and resources to address the seasoned Uler.

For me, I would like to see more articles not on gear, but on technique…how to use the gear. I am done buying gear (shocking) for now and just want to learn the "secrets" on how to better use the gear to make my life easier on the trail.

Examples that I have put up before:

1. 6 Tarp Pitches/Configurations you need to know in the field

2. Review on Gravity filters (simply because there is little info on this topic)

I like trip reports and photo essays to Inspire me to want to take trips to places I never have been to before.

Maybe part of this thread is to get suggestions for future articles that appeal to the seasoned ULer?

Cameron,

Agreed….interestingly, I have never used the Gear Swap to buy or sell anything.

Hopefully, with the knowledge that I have gained from BPL's articles and from the forum, I have not made a "bad" purchase to the point where I wanted to sell something. Plus, any duplicate gear that I have, I have kept to have available for friends to use who don't have any gear and are interested in trying backpacking.

****Also, I wanted to thank everyone for changing the tone of this conversation to one that is productive and respectful of each other. We can do so much more together vs. bickering at each other. Love the ideas that are coming out here.******

-Tony

Doug: "+1 on a set of "Beginner's Guide to UL" or some set of core articles like that. As a newer member transitioning to a lighter pack, this would do a couple of things:

"Perhaps a free digital copy of Ryan's book on lightweight backpacking with each new membership."

It's available now, free:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00034.html

And the latest reader review (by George Carr in 2007) gave it 5/5, even without it having been updated since 2001:

"When I 1st joined BL.com this was the article that convinced me sub 5 was possible. I think that on the home page there should be a link that says read this first. While the original might use some updating, it is a solid first read for newbies to UL backpacking."

http://tinyurl.com/Reader-Reviews

Updating Ryan's digital book, and placing it prominently on the main page as George suggests in his review above, would be a fine step — and pretty easy.

Easy, that is, except for whoever has to do the update.

This is turning into a great discussion. Just got home from work and noticed most of the discussion was civil, with real suggestions for improvement. My condolences to Ryan – losing a family member is very tough.

I second the idea of a learning tree for newcomers. Maybe a homework flow chart with links to articles about skills and techniques. I remember – lighten the big three, gear list contests, and on and on. Thankfully, most of the experienced ultralighters were very patient with me when I first came here – I do appreciate this.

As far as my computer skill, Jake, yes you are right. When I need something technical done, then I call my son. I don't know how to use tiny url, but I get by somehow. As far as my knowledge of ads, I have been to sites with click through pages, flashing things and short ad videos that you must watch before you can watch what you want. I don't want BPL to go this way. As far as print magazines, I don't like articles that continue on page 112 and then finish on page 147 with 3 lines a picture and a period. I actually cut out articles, index them and file away for later use – especially MYOG techniques and plans. I said I was a simple man.

Keep up the good work BPL – I like a clean screen.

Dave

I am kind of shocked at the audacity of this argument. 'Your service is awesome, the best on the internet but if I have to pay for it then I won't use it therefore you need to keep it free'. Seriously?

Since when did BPL become a non profit organization here to help you sell your stuff and meet your pact with yourself to not pay for things you don't use (but really you want to use)? Why would a business person care that you won't continue to use their service for free? You are saying you are a customer only at a cost of $0.00, so basically you are not a customer at all, you have yet to reach the status of customer. How else can you describe it?

Why would BPL care what you (as a self proclaimed free-loader for life) thinks unless it is to convert you to a customer, which you have already stated you will not become?

I mean come on, is this serious? I am amazed this is being met with civil discussion.

Flow charts are great!

And would really enjoy seeing a "flow chart" approach married to Mike Clelland's cartoon character all outfitted for the wilderness.

You could click on an item worn or carried by Mike's cartoon character (his pack, his shoes, or anything else illustrated on or with the character), and == "pooof" == you're taken to a page listing articles, reviews, etc. from BPL database regarding that generic item.

Maybe Mike could expand his art to animation and have his character walk around demonstrating skills and techniques (skip the TP-less demo though).

His cartoon hiker could even be given a voice.

Maybe his own "Ask Mike" forum, too.

Or make that a "Dear Mike" column. As in, "Dear Mike: My pack and I are having a few serious relationship issues. I want to bag it, but my pack wants to keep hanging in there. Can you help me? Please keep it simple, and cheap. Sincerely, Yer Everlovin' Backache."

"It's available now, free:"

I didn't realize this! thanks Richard for pointing it out. I wonder how many new folks to the site don't know about this either!