Open Letter: Don’t make the Gear Swap for members only

Tom,

If this helps or matters, on the thread that Doug created, "Are you new to BPL?" I posted links to all of the photos essays that I have done in the past.

Since I post mine in the photo gallery, who knows if you or others have seen them, but they are linked in that thread for all to see.

And yes, they are a lot of work to post up…kind of a pain in the butt!

Back in August, I took about 3900 photos on my JMT trip and it is a pain in the butt to sort them and edit each photo for color/image correction, and then to down size each one to be able to be uploaded to BPL. No idea of when I am going to get that one done. Barely even started the editing process on that one because it is just a monster.

Ryan Jordan,

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us. Means a lot to get some indication of what is coming next. In the absense of information from you, sometimes people think the worst is going to happen.

Take care and best wishes.

-Tony

ive said it before and been lambasted for it … and ill say it again …

its not the gear, how shiny it is, analyzing how "optimum" it is or even how light you are that truly matters

its you using the gear to have fun going out …

to Mr Jordan's point about advertising … id hate the below to happen to BPL … i dont know many other places that gives an as honest a review as BPL … and nowhere else that tests using actual measurements

When a few of Nike’s shoes didn’t fare so well in the 1981 reviews, the company pulled its $1 million advertising contract with Runner’s World. Nike already had started its own magazine, Running, which would publish shoe reviews and commission star writers like Ken Kesey and Hunter S. Thompson.

“Nike would never advertise with me again,” Anderson says. “That hurt us bad.” In 1985, Anderson sold Runner’s World to Rodale, which, he says, promptly abolished his grading system. Today, every shoe in Runner’s World is effectively “recommended” for one kind of runner or another. David Willey, the magazine’s current editor, says that it only tests shoes that “are worth our while.” After Nike closed its magazine, it took its advertising back to Runner’s World. (Megan Saalfeld, a Nike spokeswoman, says she was unable to find someone to comment about this episode.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/magazine/running-christopher-mcdougall.html?_r=2&ref=magazine&pagewanted=all

I will address each of your points because they are decent points but none of them amount to much of an argument. I have been a member of other forums before where this same sort of thing happened and the members felt entitled to free content.

"People are used to getting content for free on the internet."

Tough. Just because a lot of stuff on the internet is free does not entitle you to free content on a forum or digital magazine. Most of the 'free content' on the internet is only free because of the advertising.

"The member content of BPL is variable and declining."

Says who? I hear nothing but great things about the members section and all I see around here is article after article on varying subjects coming out. I also see the staff members constantly asking what people want to see more of and I assume incorporating that into the members section. Also this is by far the best light backpacking site I have found and I assume the same applies to you otherwise you wouldn't hang here complaining you would just go someplace else.

"If a non-member user puts up 2,000 helpful, content-rich posts, are they a freeloader (or are they, instead, creating valuable "content" for free)?"

Absolutely not. If a forum user posts information on a known, public forum/message board they are offering that information for free. BPL does not monetize their content. If they took user content and put it in a book and sold it then your point would hold some water. If you think your information/posts have value I suggest you publish them not post them in a free, public forum.

Additionally I think it is plainly obvious that this site is an online magazine that has some free forums. It has always been clear to me that the forums are basically a teaser to convert users into members.

"Restricting selling on Gear Swap might reduce the benefit to all."

This is the only valid argument. I would simply say though that I think the BPL staff probably considered this point before hand.

"As attempts (scattershot, poorly communicated) to monetize BPL occur (e.g. MLife, user restictions, ads) what will the effect be on usage, the vibe of the place, solvency, etc.? "

What will the effect be on usage if people who are not paying members pledge to not pay to post in the classified section? I would say zero effect on BPL bottom line.

"What (if any) is the vision for BPL and a strategy to implement that vision? "

Is that really any of your business? Do you ask these same questions of other businesses that you patronize? Would you walk up, in person, to your favorite restaurant owner and demand to know what their vision and strategy is? Better yet, what if you never even bought anything in that restaurant, all you did was went in, ordered water and used their free wifi? Then they start charging $.30 cents for the water to cover the cost of the styrofoam cup and you demand to know how they think charging you for water while you get free wifi is going to affect their monetizing strategy, their bottom line, and the vibe of their restaurant?

"Should everyone pay for any use of BPL, including free forums, in light of issues above (and many others), and if they don't, is their input to be marginalized or wholly discounted? Etc. etc."

Yes, the input of non paying members should be marginalized as they are not paying and therefore are not customers they are free loading. They are using the free wifi but not buying the food so they should zip it and enjoy the free wifi.

Synchronistic angst seems to be in the air — or perhaps not synchronicity, but just that others here have visited Ryan Jordan's latest posting at his blog:

http://ryanjordan.com/blog/2011/11/the-lean-approach-to-wilderness-travel/

Ryan, That is some great insight from behind the scenes. It is unfortunate that gear companies will not let their stuff be reviewed honestly.

as one of the proponents for ads I am disappointed. perhaps a focus towards gear selling sites rather than the actual companies. Another idea is a conservation type site. In rock climbing the big wig is Access Fund. I'm not sure what would be similar for backpacking.

I have to say I like what Im hearing from a lot of members and especially Ryan. Ryans blog reflects an attitude I would like to see more of here. I have a good feeling that BPL may become something I would like to join again in the future. I will be watching with interest.

Since technique, philosophy, trip reports and photography have all been mentioned multiple times as things to focus on other than gear, those forums could be moved to the top. It's always confused me why there's six separate forums for gear and the actual talk about backpacking is down below.

Ryan,
Thank you for weighing in. Take care, and I look forward to your increased presence as BPL moves forward.

Ty Ty,

See the earlier points about wanting to WIN at all costs. Don't lose sight of the forest for the trees. When you have to REFUTE you perhaps don't see that it's the intersection of all these issues (and about a hundred more) that are leading to all this conversation. You are apparently new here (3 mo.) so you haven't seen the continuing nature of these discussions and the arc of folks' concerns. You might want to argue, but I don't. I want folks to explore, not argue, about where BPL can go.

These conversations happen because people here (perhaps unlike other places) honestly care and are invested in a good community here.

Dave.

Ryan,
I thank you for extending my membership and extend my condolences for your family.

Everyone else,
Thanks for continuing the discussion while I wasn't here.

Craig makes an excellent point about gear being popular, and I would assume driving traffic.

The onus is then, in my perfect world, on the bigs around here to ensure that such content is put in its proper place. I'd love to see the GEAR forum down low, and the TR forum at the top.

More trip report articles would be good. That means that you all (Tony and the JMT, Travis and Isle Royale!) need to submit some articles. I will say by way of encouragement that Addie is a great editor to work with, not scary at all (much though she'd love to be viewed otherwise).

I started working on four major new gear review projects (not guaranteeing that all will see "print") this evening. I'll resolve to submit a few more report and technique articles to balance it out.

David– I KNOW!!! I've been busy with post-Wedding stuff, and the holidays…. :) It'll be coming!!

Dave,

This is nothing new or unique that is being argued about. I would venture to guess that of the tens of thousands of internet forums (maybe more) that this same exact conversation has played out on most of them.

The only valid argument taking place here is for the paying members to discuss weather the change will limit their access to buy and sell gear to a wider audience. The rest of this discussion is rude and out of line. You can cover it with this air of 'we are simply promoting discussing' but it doesn't change the reality of what you are doing and the fact that in person, you wouldn't be doing this because it would be obviously rude and inappropriate.

As a newbie to lightweight backpacking this sight has been invaluable to me. In the past 3 months or so I have replaced my pack, shelter and sleeping system. BPL has been my main source of information as I researched gear. The forums and gear reviews on this sight have been extremely helpful. The member gear lists are also something I enjoy looking through for ideas and I encourage more people to submit gear lists. The membership fee I paid has been worth every penny and I plan to continue my support of BPL.

I totally understand paying for a membership. I myself have a couple small private forums I run and I understand the time and cost involved in those very small projects.

I wish there was a multi-level membership system such as at hammock forums. I see over and over again saying it it isn't worth $2 a month then move on. Make it an option for me to pay my $2 a month and I would do it, but it is hard for a lot of people out there to throw down $25 all at once. Things are so tight financially for so many, myself included, that to put a $25 membership fee into the budget just isn't acceptable. To many it doesn't seem like much but to some it is 1/4 of $100 dollars and that hurts.

I just wanted to throw my 2cents in although I probably should have thrown it in the piggy bank instead.

Craig has some great points. Once you dial your UL kit in, and then slide back a little for durability or whatever, and then just start using it, much of what BPL provides (e.g. gear fetishism) seems pretty unimportant. I'm interested in the points about how BPL can serve to help folks get lighter in the outdoors (for a variety of reasons) while providing compelling reasons for those of us who have alerady gotten light to stick around/member up/whatever. Seems like the latter must focus on WHAT and WHERE to do with all that gear.

"Since I post mine in the photo gallery, who knows if you or others have seen them, but they are linked in that thread for all to see."

I've done that with one set, Tony. Otherwise, I've inserted a pic or two occasionally when posting to a thread to better illustrate a point, but in either case they haven't had the text that accompanies a trip report. That's where the "pain in the butt" factor comes in. I might go to the trouble if I thought anyone would actually read them, but I have the sense that, unless the report is about some popular venue like the JMT, most folks aren't much interested. Unfortunate, IMO, because an honest trip report that includes the screw ups along with the triumphs could be an invaluable tool for newbies and veterans alike to enhance their knowledge base.

Tom,

The whole process can be a pain in the butt.

1. Sort through hundreds or thousands of photos, delete the bad ones

2. Use Photoshop Elements to clean up and crop all of the keeper shots

3. Sort through hundreds of remaining shots to determine which tells the story the best

4. Use Photoshop Elements to down size photos to each photo to be able to be uploaded

5. Check Topo Map & Journal against shots to know what to label them as captions

6. Upload each photo and create captions to tell the story of what happened

That said, I think that any trip report can be an interesting read even if it is not the most popular trail. In fact, I think that a well written trip report with good photos can inspire someone to take a trip that they would not have considered before. The mix of story telling and photos can inspire people to follow in your foot steps.

I find that the greatest reward and compliment is if someone puts a comment up under the trip report to say that they want to go hike that trail or that they have done it and had a great time.

Fully agree with you that an honest trip report shows the good and the bad and does not gloss over the bad parts to make the people in the trip report look good. Frankly, I find that reading about the bad stuff, the challenges overcome on a trip, makes for a much more interesting trip report/photo essay.

For myself, I like to also make a point of showing the gear being used in the field. Not that I think that I am an expert in using it, but simply to show how I use the gear. That in itself can be useful to the reader. Maybe it shows them a product like they Bush Buddy in action, or how a poncho tarp is setup, using a bivy bag, etc. Call it the light weight backpacker illustrated.

Anyway, my point is this….don't sell yourself short. If you have the inclination, please post up a trip report or photo essay and don't worry if it is popular or well known trail you went on.

If you are concerned about your work being lost forever in the back pages of the forum, do what I do….put links to your prior work at the end of each new trip report/photo essay so that it can be viewed by new members who may not know about the work you did in the past.

Bottom line, yeah, it is a pain in the butt to put together, but I think you will find it is rewarding not only to have others comment about your work, but simply for you to be able to look back at the photos and relive your past adventures.

-Tony

Thanks much for the input, Tony. Lots of good points and much to think about.

The trips reports is probably my favorite forum. In fact, I discovered this website after doing a google search to research a trip to Emigrant Wilderness and was directed to one of Tony's trip reports.

Edit to add: So thanks Tony and others that take the time to post these reports!

I just realized that. Ugh.

Really Eugene? You can't get to the PM system as a guest?

I've been okay with the changes so far, including the gearswap changes, but I think restricting the PM system is a little excessive IMO. Makes communication on gearswap threads, and general threads (to avoid thread drift) difficult. Sorry buddy.

I can PM you, but I don't see a way to PM non members. Can you PM me?

It was the SoCal trip thread that got me to check because I was trying to make a contact list for everyone that said they were interested. I posted one list already, but I was going to post a second list with the link required to PM each person. That's when I discovered that I could not PM non members. I was on the verge of getting another membership, but this irritates me enough that I changed my mind.

Eugene, I can pm you. The problem is, most people that are BPL guests don't bother to set up their PM systems. For example, if they don't setup a personal email address that's associated with the BPL PM system, than you can't PM them. It's a very common problem. It's caused quite a problem for many in the past.

Everybody setup your PMs! and Happy New Year!

Okay, my mistake. I jumped the gun. I can see that guests can be PM'd. I must have unluckily tested a couple non members that didn't have their PM's set up, or I made a mistake in my scripting…

Yep, it was a mistake in my scripting.

nm