New Kifaru Pack – less then 3lbs, 5200 ci, will carry 100+ lbs!

B.G. I was just wondering what he meant by his post. I probably should just put that instead of the "?".

I hate most politicians also. A lot of talk and no content.

Thats me laughing. This is the gear forum where we discuss the integrity of gear. When some one shifts the focus of integrity, there is usually only one reason for that. Trust me, I dont need to "further" my gear.

Maybe my sarcasm was not appreciated, I apologize. Maybe I should have been more profesional and serious like some of the other posters and asked serious questions.

So let me start over, and try again, has anybody experienced any trouble with their wood stays when pack rafting?

On December 11, I wrote:
"The two packs that I use most weigh in at 4 ounces or 7 ounces. The Kifaru packs like that would be interesting, but I can't find them on the web site."

Nobody else has found them, either?

–B.G.–

Josh, it was the BS part of the "no hyped BS" that left a sour taste in my mouth. If you say you were being sarcastic that puts it in better perspective for me. Sarcasm doesn't come across well on forums so I can understand that.

At first glance I think your reaction on the load rating is what most people will have though. Kifaru and the guys that tested it have good reps so I'm hopeful. In reality only time will tell. It's certainly an interesting addition to lightweight backpacking though. Simply surviving those loads is very impressive in my mind.

I look forward to seeing how your pack turns out.

Bob, it's 9.5 oz but here you go. Top access, shoulder straps, place to put a water bottle holder, sternum strap…the features go on and on…:-)

https://kifaru.net/KUEE.html

That's 1000 cubic inch volume. I classify that as a daypack. That's certainly not what I had in mind.

–B.G.–

:-) Yep, it is hard to tell what is sarcasm and whet is not.

For my part I have revised my new year's goals:

1. Promote world peace.
1a. Do not refer to Kifaru's silicone coated nylon fabric as silnylon, at least when Vern is around. :-)

On the serious side, do any of you know a source for obtaining fabric like Kifaru or Integral Designs uses? I've been online to the usual places, but I can't seem to find anything but standard silnylon and/or Ultra-Sil.

Russell, I know everything in their packs is made in America so that might help limit your search. I'm betting they have it specially made for them but I could be wrong.

If you find it I'd like to know.

To unfurther that world peace initiative, the K-fabric IS what is commonly known in the industry as "Silnylon". 30×30 denier, silicone coated/impregnated nylon, is what it is, which is what is generically called "silnylon". The tear stengths and all, are right on par, I've tested them. We have a roll of it, from the same finisher, in Grey, we can sell you yardage cheap, we dont use it.

Who's the finisher? I'd like to give them a call.

What's the tear strength on silnylon? 10lbs per sq inch?

If this is simply a full suspension silnylon pack, then the weight makes sense. The long term durability wouldn't, however.

Josh,

I would be interested in purchasing some. Can you send me info to my email: rradams@q.com

Also, I can't help but wonder why you guys don't use it.

Because it has a low tear strength.

Raymond

You'll have to get another manufacture to reveal that information, I have one in mind.

Russell

I'll get an email off to you.

David

The puncture resistance of uncoated 30D is ~10lbs/sq.in, Sil coating brings that up to ~13-15 depending on the coating. The grab tear strength of all 30D is ~150 lbs, regardless of coatings. We dont use this particular fabric because of its width, and how the edges are finished. Does not matter for 99% of peoples uses, but because of the way we manufacture our tents, this particular Sil is not as easy to work with for us. Other than that it is for all real world purposes the same as what we currently use. Ours just doesnt have a Flavor Flav style endorsment. I guess I could bust out my clock and do one though.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, some context makes all the difference in this discussion. Silnylon packs have X number of miles of life in them. So depending on use, a Sil pack could last someone a lifetime, while others will use one up in a year.

Thanks for making my point for me.

Haven't known trolling to be a successful marketing strategy, but hey, I could be wrong.

That's convenient…if I can't call them then I can't verify your claims. I doubt they'd tell man anyway. I think your just assuming what material it is. I can't prove one way or another so it comes down to who I believe…you or Patric. I think he's more qualified to answer the question on what material he uses then you are. As quoted before:

"The fabric is the same as we use for our tipis. It is NOT silnylon. It's mil-spec Ultra High Tenacity American ripstop nylon. Double the strength of silnylon, at least, and double layer in all the packs and pockets, which dramatically strengthens the whole package."

http://www.kifaruforums.net/showthread.php?23909-Kifaru-Ultralight-Packs!!!/page9&highlight=tenacity

Either way I'm just going to leave it at that. I don't own any of his packs yet and I don't plan to order one soon so I have time to see how they work for others.

I find that ironic since the manufacturer doesn't actually say anything about the fabric other than claiming it's not "silnylon" and then describing it with a handful of vague, and meaningless buzzwords.

Well, other than saying it's "American", although it doesn't even definitely claim it's made in the U.S.A., technically speaking all Central and South American manufacturers are "American" also.

Simple solution here would be to actually let someone know what the fabric is. Which I'm going to go ahead and give you 10 to 1 odds that it's something the majority of us here would classify as either Sil or Urethane coated nylon.

Simply put, if it's nylon, and it's coated/impregnated/splattered with a silicone or silicone blend, it's silnylon by my (and I think the majority of us here) definition. If it's coated with a urethane based coating, then it's PU coated nylon, or best case maybe, it's some type of ultrasil(silicone and pu coated) either way, it's nothing spectacular.

Of course that doesn't really fit in with the idea the above statement seems to be trying to convey that they're actually using some "super special military exclusive paragon of patriotism textile" that nobody else has access to.

This is no different than the thread about whether or not McHale can magically "dye" Spectra/Dyneema.

Seriously, this pack may have immense promise, but the level of hype and BS being generated as a result of all this vagueness is out of control. I'm guessing that's the intent. Mission accomplished, buzz generated.

It's amazing how a few can ruin an otherwise great thread. I regret even starting the thread at this point. I wish we could just stick with facts instead of making ridiculous claims and trying to pass on speculation as fact.

Mr. Reese. Trolling would be posting twice about a pack that, unless it is revealed in full, is open to criticism and conjecture about it's lofty abilities.

We all want to see the finished item; we have seen much marketing hype on these forums where the final reveal is less than appealing. This may or may not be the case here but I suggest you leave your promotion of the item to other forums.

Dan Mchale has put his amazing suspensions in carbon fiber prototypes that would weigh 30% less than what this thread is pimping (and carry better) but has not been 100% satisfied with the longer term durability. Should be the same with the 30d ripstop on this pack or are you using an interweave of Unobtanium?

I was looking at the pack I know last 3 year the military was reviewing on lightweight pack designs made in the USA.

To lighten the load on our military personal,I also think they are pushing for extra capacity light weight packs to fight in Afghanistan mountainous regions were hummer cant travel you need to travel on foot or pack animal.

I know Granite Gear , Mystery ranch and looking at the pack maybe was Kifaru submit packs for review for the military.
The military needs packs that carry 100 lbs. loads.

Kifaru pack frame look like a frame I had on my Vortex[ now badlands brand] pack mad out of poly carbonate.

The backpacking community got some blow back on this technology like the Granite gear escape AC 60 pack and frame that is breathable that carry heavy loads. Mystery Ranch has carbon fiber plate style stay type of pack in their line up to carry heavy loads.

So that is my take on the Kifaru new lightweight pack design

The only thing I do have to say is any high tenacity silnylon or nylon is not very abrasion resistant at these weights and loaded. Sit on a rock or scrape against rock or tree you will get a hole in this fabric compared to a 500 denier fabric.

"I wish we could just stick with facts instead of making ridiculous claims and trying to pass on speculation as fact."

Ditto, but we'll need some actual *facts* to do that with as opposed to meaningless random strings of marketing buzzwords intended to make people believe whatever pipe dream compels them.

Here at BPL we have an intense desire to know the deeper truth about things, especially related to materials, not just the information manufacturers want us to believe.

In case I wasn't clear before: "mil-spec Ultra High Tenacity American ripstop nylon" defines absolutely jack. There's no relevant "fact" here other than ripstop nylon.

So I guess we can agree that it's ripstop, and nylon. Awesome, mystery solved! <– Sarcasm in case it's not obvious. :P

Maybe someone from Kifaru will jump on and put this fabric question to rest and list some real numbers. I think that's fair. This isn't the first time the question has been raised.

+1 Raymond. But I will be surprised if we get any further information. I've seen the question raised before, more than once, with no additional information offered. It would be informative to compare specs on other similar fabrics, like Kerlon 1200 for instance.

My guess is all we will know is:

"mil-spec ultra high tenacity American nylon"
"Waterproofing: It is coated on both sides with silicone,"

(Both quotes above are taken from Kifaru's website)

As I've stated before, I have some of their fabric in a shelter and misc bags and it's pretty good stuff. My only question is whether they are using something no one else is.

@Ure — I'm not "promoting" anything and I'm not in any way connected with Kifaru. My experience with Kifaru's products and service has been great, but they don't need me to defend them. And whether you're skeptical about their claims is your own business.

What struck me was Leavitt's attitude. It's rare for a vendor to jump into a thread about a competitor's product and publicly scoff at the claims made about that product, while promoting his own. It's a low-class thing to do. Which is why I won't be interested in purchasing one of his products: God forbid there's a problem with my order and I have to deal with that kind of attitude.