New Kifaru Pack – less then 3lbs, 5200 ci, will carry 100+ lbs!

Josh

Let's keep it at 150:) Can you answer the question? Or is this another one of the standing upright with 150lb pack answers?

I have checked these packs out on the Kifaru site and even looked at some of Aron's pack reviews on Bowsite; I am impressed by them and tend to think that they are a good concept and will advance the art of backpack hunting and also longrange backpacking remote treks where every ounce means a little more food to allow you to say out longer.

On the issue of heavy loads, I do not doubt Aron's word on this as I sometimes carried about 140 lbs. on a Trapper Nelson #3, as a "Lookoutman" and wildfire fighter and silvicultural supervisor in the BC Forest Servive in the '60s and into the '70s. This, was not "fun", but, I could do it and it often shortened my work day to just bull the supplies up to the L/O and get it over with.

I also backpack hunt and have done for 46 years, all over British Columbia and one must pack some gruesome loads when doing this as game meat spoils VERY quickly and anyonew who wastes meat is a _________!

I started carrying a pack in 1956 and have owned and used packs from many top makers from Canada, the UK, the USA and Europe, including Kifaru. I am a Mystery Ranch-Bozeman Dana Designs fan, simply because in 33 years of use of Dana's packs, nothing has ever fitted so well, been as comfortable or lasted as long, but, different packs fit different folks and my next and LAST pack is going to be a full Dyneema Expedition pack from Dan McHale, the cost of customization is worth it to me, at this age.

I will make one more point, very simply, in my years of mountain work, in working in the mountain gear industry and on the internet, I have not met a more credible or knowledgeable person than Ed Tyanich…if, Ed says these packs will do this and such, I take that as good enough for me.

I am eager to see what Kuiu and TiGoat introduce and hope that the process of constant improvement continues, if, you ever had to carry a heavy load on a blistering July day up a Rocky Mtn., you can understand why I hold this thought!

bahhh …

lets see if the kifaru can handle these fuzzy wuzzies … the smaller ones can go in the daypack

Hey, Eric, if you will put them IN the pack, I will try to carry them!

thats what the honey is for … works for pooh bears

i guess well see how the kifaru "silnylon" reacts to bear saliva as well ;)

im liking this kind of real world testing more and more … lol

Aside from about half a dozen pack frames that will easily do a buck fifty. I have a modified ULA Catalyst that I just loaded to 180, this pack tips at 3 lbs so a couple ozs heavier. This pack is built with dyneema, so you can put miles on it behind a truck. It only has ~800 miles on it.

My father is 5'7", 115 dripping wet, he made it half way across the shop before leaning back too far, we're still laughing.

That pack looks like a duffle bag with shoulder straps.

I tell you what, you load 150 in that pack and I will load 150 in the KU and we will see who is happier at the end of a 5 mile loop!?!?! What do ya say? Deal?

I wont be comfortable, I've been pi$$ing blood for two days. I have a dozen 3mm kidney stones, in both kidneys, that want out bad. I spent almost 2 months in bed this year, and one surgury. How about 100? Or anyone else can step in?

I have been enjoying our chit talking session, but KS are no joke! I passed a kidney stone (my first) in the middle of a 10 day bivy hunt and that was not fun or funny. Good luck!

Sorry to hear that Josh. Hope you get feeling better.

I will step in for you provided the 150 lbs can be done is (3) separate loads spaced over (6) days. :-)

The last one was 7mm :-)

I'll get the specs and draw the fabric test procedure. Who wants to conduct the testing? You still game Roger?

Hey Josh

I was curious about something.

Why do you need some of Kifaru's material if you have a roll of that material at your shop already? At least that is what you posted earlier in this thread. Is it possible that the material you have at your shop is from a different manufacturer or source?

To be honest, I'm a little nervous to send you any material from Kifaru, you know, because of the history between Ti Goat and Kifaru.

I tell you what, I will send you some material as soon as you send me on of the TI goat packs to review.

I dont want you to send me fabric, we are going to find a third party for you to send it to. If I provide fabric that I claim to be the same as what Kifaru uses, then people will cry foul. I'm not going to touch it, it will come from Kifaru, and go to someone besides me.

And what makes you think I'm sending you a pack after that last episode, you told me on the phone more than once how objective you were, I beg to differ at this point.

Is this pic more appropriate on the gear list forum?

Josh, fun thread! Hey, The fabric in the pack there is not Dyneema. It is mostly nylon with Dyneema grid so it could not take a trip behind a pickup. The fabric is officially 'Dyneema Grid'. I edited the rest of this because it all gets very subjective as you have shown by putting the weight in that pack.

Aron, the fabric grab tear test you did is not valid. If you used a piece that was 3×3 it would hold more and less than 2×2 would hold less. A true grab test is more difficult. Most fabrics test fairly high in grab tests but tear tests is where the metal shows. Just take a piece of fabric and cut it so you can tie your knot on one side of the cut and tie the other side to the bar. It will hold far far less of course.

I understand if you are worried about your pack being reviewed, but I'll just buy one and test it then.

As far as being objective, I think most would agree I have been very unbiased on my reviews.

Mystery Ranch packs are a great example of this! They new I used other packs and spoke highly of them, but they sent out the packs without hesitation and I gave very unbiased reviews. MR makes a great pack and they have nothing to be afraid of, Kifaru is the same way!

I do know that you will never see anyone from Kifaru of MR bashing another companies packs on a web site, and know matter how you twist it, that is exactly what you are doing!

I always thought it best (if I had questions about someone's pack), to buy the pack and test it for myself, but I doubt that you will ever do that with open eyes. I know Patrick had no issues with me testing his packs and he was fully aware that I had been using MR packs, and MR had no issue selling me packs when they knew I had been using Badlands.
They both new they had top quality products and I would be impressed no matter what I had been using!

Dan

Thanks for the info and that makes good sense!

You make a hell of a pack as well and I have been told you are a first class guy! Keep up the good work and thanks for making a great product.

Aron

Go ahead and buy one, please dont endorse it like you do other packs. There is a difference between reviewing something, and endosing it. I have said that the Kifaru Packs would be just fine for some people. I am questioning particular claims, and voicing my opinion about particular parts of the designs. No, most manufactures don't speak out, this is bad for consumers. Most manufactures go along with most of the marketing hype in the industry because it serves them well. I have been questioned because of who I am, not because of the claims I've challenged. Back to the fabric.

Dan

You are correct. In a grid to sil comparison, I stand by what I said. But no, the grid is not nearly as tough as 100% dyneema.

You are indeed bold here!

a : to approve openly ; especially : to express support or approval of publicly and definitely

Josh, you are correct about that, and that is what I will do for companies that I know I can trust and that I know people can depend on!

Since your giving me advice, I will give a little back. Try one of the KU packs for yourself, because in the end, as people start using these packs, the truth will come out anyway and you and I arguing back and forth won't mean anything anyway.

Dan
I may have let it go some time ago, but there are allot of bad claims about gear and fabric made here, as you know. Most times forum posters challenge particular claims, and some questioning ensues, especially around outdoor retailer time, and then it dies down. But I have always found it interesting when you question gear, and the only response is to be questioned yourself. So maybe this is nothing more than my own exercise in staying on subject. Or maybe I thought that there was something in the best interest of consumers to be learned here. You used to find that kind of thing here on BPL, science, state of the market reports, information. Do you know anything about 300 lb tear strength high tenacity nylon?

You mean a pure tear test? 300 lbs is not likely.

"I always thought it best (if I had questions about someone's pack), to buy the pack and test it for myself, but I doubt that you will ever do that with open eyes."

Aron, no offense man, but, seriously?

That's mighty noble of you, but the main point of reviews, and one of the primary purposes of this section of the forum, etc., is the dissemination of information such that you can make an educated decision before you buy.

Frankly, considering the cost of this pack, and the lofty claims, this becomes all the more relevant.

Honestly, I'd think it more likely easier to be less critical of something (especially a pricey something), that you didn't have to pay for, than the thing you did. Not hard to love something free, unless you're intent to find it's flaws.

If I paid what they're asking for this pack, I'd expect full spectra/dyneema. Which is one of the things that makes me see how it could be very important for Kifaru to differentiate themselves from the "silnylon" image.

Which btw, I didn't respond again before, but in my book, any 30D(or other denier for that matter) ripstop nylon, that's silicone coated, single, double, triple, or quadruple, no matter how tenacious or american, or what the relevant test strengths, *is* silnylon. Plain and simple, all that appears to be going on here is the manufacturer playing the semantics game. As requested, "sticking with the facts", we've been given two contradictory statements by the manufacturer. 1) This isn't silnylon. 2) "mil-spec Ultra High Tenacity American ripstop nylon" & "silicone coated on both sides"

Obviously, my definition of "silnylon" and Kifaru's definition are different, and that's the problem, it's arbitrary, there is no consensus baseline.

Anyway, this has become a soap opera of skeptics vs believers, and it's getting downright near religious, and absolutely unproductive. I know I'm playing my part, but I'm not proud of it. This is a waste of time.

edit: spelling and grammar only, I'm not going to recant.

Josh, I added to my other post above but then edited. Go for it though, you have my blessing!

Dan: I think it's important to point out that I'm pretty sure the 150lb comment is from Aron and not Kifaru themselves. I'm assuming you meant Kifaru when you say "they claim".

I personally put a lot of weight in his comments/reviews based on the number of packs I've seen him review and that amount of time he spends testing them under serious loads. You're right thought, it's very subjective.

As far as the fabric testing goes I think there is a bunch of stuff we need to figure out first. One is that we need a clear definition of what Kifaru is claiming to be fair. I think coming to a consensus on that will be a task in and of itself. To some it's very clear but to me it isn't so much so. I'm too tired to get into it right now though.

> Who wants to conduct the testing? You still game Roger?
Yeah, OK.
But let's get very clear agreement on the test procedure first. Clear diagram of how the fabric is to be held etc etc. I don't currently have access to the ASTM Standards – I'm theoretically retired and have no library at my beck and call.

Cheers