New Kifaru Pack – less then 3lbs, 5200 ci, will carry 100+ lbs!

3 things: Ok, 4:

1) I want a pack with a detachable frame like Kifaru Packs from the bag. This allows me to buy one frame and attack either a weekend climb rucksack or an expedition rucksack. Combine this feature with McHale's Byonet stay system and we are really getting somewhere.

2) I want a climbing harness built into said frame on said pack. Saves weight. No one does this. Its really stupid In My Opinion that this isn't the case especially as one gets a Gigantic WAD of buckles, zippers, suspenders and what not at your waist.

3) I want McHales suspension system. Period. Dual buckle Hipbelt and shoulder suspension strap system where it uses TENSION instead of compression on your shoulders! It can't be beat by ANY other pack. If you haven't had one on your back you don't know what you are talking about.

4) Fabricc: Dyneema would be nice except it doesn't stay waterproof. The waterproof coating falls off the dyneema. Lightweight nylon rips too easily unless you go to an insane weight fabric. Most folks go on a trail or in wide open country where there are no sticks to puncture your pack. For most folks Silnylon is just fine with a heavier weight fabric on the bottom. BUT, if you do ANY off trail work through brush, open forest, climbing, mountaineering(ice), abrasion, or even dessert where there are TONS of thorns, then any form of nylon below 210 IMO is GARBAGE as it will rip and tear in a heart beat. I own many packs. I see many like the ULA catalyst. I fell in love with it on there site as well. Said pack now has a ton of miles on it and a TON of holes in it. Ok, the DYneema kept the pack from blowing apart in said rips, but the lightweight nylon fabric rips very easily. Thus, its NOT waterproof. I still have a 40 year old REI frame pack that is still waterproof without rips using 210 fabric. Well I redid the waterproofing because after 35 years the urethane died.

NOTE: Kifuru gets away with lightweight fabric in that they make their BAGS detach from the frame! So, you can buy a super light weight bag, or replace said "normal" bag that is made out of gossamer air and rips like it as well, or you can put a heavy duty bag on. I also go paragliding, and believe me, said paragliding fabrics rip very easily. Not quite as easily as the lightest of silnylons used on UL tarps, but very easily. The thread count is 70 on paragliders normally I think. It could be 110 on older paragliders. I forget for sure honestly.

That all being said, none of these packs have these features.

McHale packs use 7000 series aluminum sheet stock with 80kpsi yield strength. SOLID aluminum. Yea yea everyone does the same thing. AT least Dan uses the best aluminum out thereunlike everyone else, the dumb schmucks. It is NOT optimal! Rather it makes it easy to build. I am guessing here, that the new Kifuru pack uses a tubular Carbon fiber design for its stays with a wood core.

Thank GOD. Finally!

It will be lighter, more rigid, and stronger to boot allowing one to carry far heavier loads. Period End of story. Why? A little thing called Structural Engineering Mechanics. A circle is ALWAYS stronger/stiffer for multi directional stress. That being said, it is also far harder to buy said round object and to attach said round object with things like BOLTS to things like oh, hipbelts. That and fitting to your back! Said tubes would have to be preformed to a "standard" back, is no such thing, or attached to a "frame to hold said tubes behind it where the frame is the part molded and somehow attached rigidly to the tubes to attain its stiffness to hold its form.

This is especially true of Carbon Fiber as it either holds the stress perfectly OK, or shatters whereas Aluminum yields and deforms. Now I read somewhere that McHale toyed with CF a while back but didn't like the durability. I would point out that he probably never implemented it correctly as I have had many years of experience designing/building with CF. It can be tricky.

There is a reason all high end arrows are made with CF and not aluminum. Its stiffer. This is what you want as the main stays in your pack. Guaranteed. They do need to be designed correctly though.

Sorry, for long post. The ultimate pack is still out there.

PS. Kifuru packs act as chairs without the bag… Quite handy.

Brian

Please pretty please, Kifuru use McHales suspension system. His patent ran out I am pretty sure. I have neck headache problems and only McHales suspension system helps in that regard. Oh, yea hip belt pockets are SWEEEEET! Every pack should have them. Yes, I own 2 McHale backpacks. Black Diamond Shadow 55, ULA catlyst, Gregory Denali Pro, Dana Designs Astraplane, Kelty Tioga, Mountainsmith,and several others.

If you own 2 McHale's then why do you need a Kifaru made with a McHale suspension,which would be a rip-off anyway, patent or no patent. Just be happy with the McHale's and use them. Disagree somewhat about fabrics,I think it depends on how one treats their gear, how much they use it, and how and where they use it as well. Waiting for my 2nd McHale made from 140D Grid-Stock fabric.

I like the idea of meshing a pack frame with a climbing harness, but it would be horrible in practice. Do you want straps/buckles that are easy to use or do you want them to be secure?

It has not been my experience that the internal coatings are 'falling off' our dyneema. Most coatings do fail long term though on most fabrics.

Paul,

What tent are you using in your pic? Looks interesting,

Regards
Mark

https://kifaru.net/TIPI2009.html

I must have had bad luck on the dyneema pack I do have then.

As for the climbing harness/hipbelt. It would be like the alpine bod harness with 2 sets of buckles. Difference is you wouldn't have two sets of padding. OR 2 sets of hipbelts moving to their own desires and positioning!!! One harness wouldn't try riding up and over the other creating pressure points. Or slipping and falling down. As of right now you have to put your pack on OVER your harness for all glacier travel and after a bit said pack belt will dig in on the top edge of your climbing harness. That and it makes your gear loops on said harness unaccessable for the most part. It also creates pressure points on your hips. This isn't all that bad with super thick harnesses/hipbelts, but on thinner ones, aka lighter… If they were one and the same wouldn't have this problem. Attach to pack via simple swivel pins, same ones used on sailboats. Make the normal "belt" buckle detachable as it would slid under the gear loops on climbing harness. All one needs for hiking is something to keep a fair amount of tension on the front of your waist and be able to adjust it like the double buckle of McHales pack.

PS. To the disgruntled persons post above who thinks that just because I have a couple decent packs 2nd hand cheep then I should be 100% content.. A pack is never good enough, just like one can Always do better even if you are on the top of the heap. The question in this case is, would anyone buy them?

=)

Oh yea, pulled out my 3rd hand paraglider and it has 30 count threads sil coated nylon. Either 1.1 or 1.3 oz/sq yd. Its the Gliders that one can pack up the hill that use the 70d ripstop and heavier fabrics. Sorry posted wrong. I think their leading edges use polyurethane coatings for windproofing. Anyways silnylon at 30d rips very very easily. IMO it has no business anywhere but on a throwaway pack bag. Certainly not on a stuff sack that would have to be attached to the outside of a pack. Now maybe if you are on trails only then this is fine. But here in PNW, even the trails have a ton of brush on them that will shred silnylon. California/CO there isn't any though. There is on the east coast where there aren't trees but otherwise they don't have brush either for the most part.

You got a couple dyneema packs second hand cheap? How old are they and do you know if they are Dyneema versus Spectra? McHale Packs has been making packs from these materials since 1992. Our older Spectra packs were less waterproof than the latest Dyneema. Also, I noticed over at 24hourcampfire somebody is saying Dyneema/Spectra is not UV resistent. This pops up on the net once in a while. The opposite is true. Dyneema is UV resistent, and even if the coating did fall off, the pack itself would outlast any other pack made from conventional fabrics. A 420 HT pack for instance could see a life of only 5 years say in Patagonia, if used continuously and daily before it becomes danerously weaked and loses strength. I have not yet witnessed a limit on the dyneema/spectra even though it generally lighter than the 420 HT. There is some degradation but the initial high strength carries it through.

As for climbing harness, I have worked on that problem. In the 90s I worked with Yates Harness and had the permission to modify and resell their harnesses. I would cut out the fixed round donut in front and replace it with an adjustable strap that would allow the upper belt of the harness to ride above a pack belt. The belt itself had a couple of quick release buckles on it to suspend it from the pack harness so that the climbing belt would not have to be overtightened to keep it up. I have always thought the leg loops and belt should be adjustable like this. It makes it possible to use just the belt for easier climbs also. It is the way Bill Forrest of Colorado first introduced his harness in the early 70s – the harness that really started the industry. I don't think there will be a combo harness/hipbelt but I am still working on another solution that shows promise.

2nd hand, Old. Don't know how old, sorry. 90's vintage for sure so probably is spectra.

I hear you on the UV light issue! 100% Dyneema is hands down better than nylon in this regard. Well actually it comes down to how many UV blockers the Manufacturer decides to place in said material actually. Yes, different plastics "bleed" said UV blockers at different rates. Why in 100 years it won't matter what plastic it is, it will die when exposed to UV. For instance old nylon verses new nylon. The difference is that the newer manufactured nylon tends to have more UV blockers in them. They didn't really know this until the late 70's and 80s. Well widely known. Of course it all depends on the manufacturer.

Sweet working on harness/hipbelt combo. Nice! Thought very seriously about modifying one of your packs for expressly this purpose, but frankly I have been buried under a mountain of projects all much more pressing than a slightly lighter pack and gear combo for pleasure!

I have found that one can "cheat" with lighter frame packs by always wearing your climbing harness under the hipbelt for trail walking, but this is pretty much a matter of the pack in question not having a good suspension.

Thanks for the information Dan. One of these days I am gonna come knocking on your door for a new pack. Super Inex. Get those before mentioned million projects off my neck…

Brian,

Just to clear up a few things on the Kifaru UL Packs:

The bags do not detach from the frame on the UL's
The UL packs do not have the Cargo Chair option
The stays are not tubular CF, they are flat laminated wood/CF in multiple layers.

Brian,
Regarding the integration of a climbing harness and a pack's hipbelt:

http://www.figurefourpacks.com/omega_demos.shtml

I am not sure if you mentioned these packs, but if not their solution may interest you.

Honestly I think the problem of conflicting hipbelts and harnesses was pretty much resolved by the CAMP XLM 95. I don't notice it under a hip belt at all, and it's comfortable enough that I sometimes forget to take it off even after I have gotten to camp.

Most climbing harnesses are designed largely to allow freedom of movement, something pack hip belts inherently don't do. Combining the two would always mean compromising one or the other. A design that maintains a very effective load transfer from the pack will probably be annoying to do hard climbing in without the pack, and a design that is good to climb in probably wouldn't carry weight all that well.

A Mchale Hipbelt is effectively the same weight as a Petzl or Black Diamond harness with a little padding. Not quite as light as an alpine Bod webbing only harness of course. Or that CAMP harness. That CAMP harness sure does have potential though I would like to see said fall ratings. How many before the stitching fails? What is the fall rating for a harness to get the UIAA sticker of approval? Anyone know? Sorry, feeling lazy and don't have lunch break time to look it up.

As for the Omega "solution" seems to be more hassle than its worth. How is one supposed to do that with a 50+lb pack? IE going up Denali. Going to Waddington. Going to any other icefield that is remote like the Columbia icefield and planning to stay a week with food etc as it took so much time and energy to get there in the first place? Yes it would work as shown giving extra comfort, but it adds extra weight. How are you supposed to get it off your back quickly for crevasse rescue or if you fell into a crevasse? Guess you don't. Actually this would be a problem for any hipbelt/harness combination. Things to think about.

Will definetly look into said CAMP harness. Shed half a pound off my weight for $50? Mighty tempting. How long does it last that is my concern as its main tension member(nylon) is exposed to UV light all the time unlike padded harnesses and said normal harnesses also have more "nylon" in said waist webbing! Seems to be a couple trick pony, then get to buy another pony.

Hmm and one doesn't want a Dyneema harness either as it doesn't stretch nearly like nylon does IIRC. IE absorb energy time constant before transferring said shock to the climber. I forget the exact difference in elongation stress. I do know that almost all big boats use dyneema ropes to tie to a dock with anymore instead of steel cable. Lasts longer as well. Doesn't rust… THey are using dyneema on cranes as well now.

Thanks much for your replies.

The KU5200 is designed to carry 100 pounds because it a load hauler with hunters in mind. The hunters can carry that much weight (or more) after they kill an elk or a bear. The KU5200 can actually carry more – it's been tested up to 150 pounds – but it's advertised to be able to carry 100 pounds comfortably. There's a smaller version, the KU3700, that is rated at 70 pounds.

Kifaru has a excellent reputation for their backback quality and have other backpacks that can carry that much weight. The one downside with the Kifaru packs is that they are extremely pricey.

The fact that Kifaru came out with a 5200 cubic inch pack with a load bearing capacity of 100 pounds, and the backpack itself weighs less then 3 pounds is just simply amazing. The 100-pound capacity is just an indication on how well-built the pack has to be be to even do that. No one is pointing a gun at anyone's head saying they have to load up this pack with 100 pounds. You can obviously pack less weight.

This is high-quality pack 5200 cubic-inch pack that weighs less than 3 pounds. And, oh by the way, it can also carry up to 100 pounds, if you so desire.