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Sierra Snowpack 2015

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Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 234 total)
PostedMar 25, 2015 at 7:39 pm

"and can't people pump water out of the ground all they want?"

Maybe. Depends on where. Many areas have restrictions on groundwater pumping. And more areas passing laws to restrict groundwater pumping every day… especially in the drought areas where pumping is drawing down groundwater tables causing some people's wells to go dry and some land to subside…

"if (the government) wanted to fix this, they'de be declared unconstitutional, taking people's property, communist,…"

Not quite sure what you are saying here Jerry, but that statement can be argued from both sides. A person or entity who owns water rights considers that part of their property too… and they might feel it 'unconstitutional' for their property to be 'taken'…. this could be the feeling/argument of those who get 100% allocation as well as those who get 10% allocations… and all in between….

just sayin…

billy

J-L BPL Member
PostedMar 25, 2015 at 7:42 pm

Interesting, my water bill always reads my usage at 1000 gallons per month. I assume that's the minimum the city will bill for. My yard is small though and I don't water it (the mesquite tree does well in a dry climate).

I'm glad to see some people in California are concerned about their water usage. People with lawns in Phoenix drive me crazy. I sometimes think people are delusional about the fact we live in a desert

This was a weird winter for AZ. We had lots of precipitation, but mostly in the form of rain and not much snow. Many of the big storms we saw completely missed the Sierras.

Katherine . BPL Member
PostedMar 25, 2015 at 7:55 pm

hats off to the earlier poster who makes use of the cool water that gets wasted while we're waiting for our hot showers.

I believe at a Scottish B&B our shower had it's own tankless/electric heater. I propose all showers have such specific heater cut out the "wait water." Then we should rig up some shower waste water to fill the toilet water tank.

There was one one summer when I hauled several watering cans from the tub after my kids finished their bath. But I've since slacked off on the gardening.

Ian — I've used two composting toilets, both great

#1 more rustic – The Good Life center in Maine. In an outhouse. Wooden seat, ample supply of wood chips to mix in. No smell. (But it was a pit stop on a kayaking trip in a high-impact island, so any toilet seemed like luxury compared to the "poop tube.")

#2 more modern — In Phonicia, NY – Guest house owned (and selectively rented out) by folks who own a shop in town. It was electric, seemed very modern, was right in the bathroom in the guest cottage. Very civilized. (night after my biggest backpacking fail).

Jerry Adams BPL Member
PostedMar 25, 2015 at 7:57 pm

oh, wait a second, this isn't chaff, I was being overly provacative : )

The water rights law were created when there wasn't a shortage like we're having currently

A property owner just took out the first X gallons out of a river a long time ago. Why should they be entitled to it in perpetuity?

or if someone pumps water out of the ground from directly below their property, it flows from somewhere else

like mining rights – why should someone be entitled to mineral rights on public land just because they found it? That was from a time when the government wanted to encourage emigration

there'll definitely be some lawsuits

Ken Thompson BPL Member
PostedMar 25, 2015 at 7:58 pm

usage: Irregardless is widely heard, perhaps arising under the influence of such perfectly correct forms as irrespective, but should be avoided by careful users of English. Use regardless to mean ‘without regard or consideration for’ or ‘nevertheless’.

So there is no snow and you are acting like you are snow bound. Go outside. It's beautiful out. Go regardless.

Kattt BPL Member
PostedMar 25, 2015 at 8:06 pm

I had to look "Irregardless" up. Apparently it is considered unacceptable because it smells of a double negative.

Double negatives are used in almost every language and in English as well. In order to separate the educated from the uneducated English was artificially manipulated to no longer allow double negatives, as if it were math..and now no longer a negative.

So you are correct that I made a mistake.

PostedMar 25, 2015 at 8:07 pm

"A property owner just took out the first X gallons out of a river a long time ago. Why should they be entitled to it in perpetuity?"

Depends. Some have contracts or actually bought the water rights.

"like mining rights – why should someone be entitled to mineral rights on public land just because they found it? "

Because that is the law…. irregardless of what you 'feel' is right

Hard to change existing contracts… can change any new ones going forward… but the existing contracts? hmm… maybe buy them out… or a few water wars maybe… but hard to change via lawsuit if the contract is good…

billy

PostedMar 25, 2015 at 8:08 pm

Good to see people taking action. I'm not surprised as those of us who backpack and venture into the outdoors are used to using so little water. From what I've heard, the 100 avg is driven up by watering lawns and plants.

Obviously big agriculture is the evil man here. It was a problem from the start. But blaming them and not taking action on an individual level doesn't solve anything either (not saying anyone's doing that). Besides, when severe water restrictions begin to be a regular occurrence, as well as the likely occurrence of water "blackouts," those that are used to living with less are going to be able to adapt a lot more easily than the average citizen.

@Ian- Have you checked out the book, The Humanure Handbook? It's fairly detailed and I thought it was pretty good. Might help you win your wife over.

Jerry Adams BPL Member
PostedMar 25, 2015 at 8:12 pm

If I complained about people correcting others for usage of the non-word "irregardless", that would be just as bad as those people correcting for usage of the non-word "irregardless".

You people, go ahead and use "irregardless" if you wish, and correct people for using that word if you wish : )

It was just unclear to me what Tom was +1ing

PostedMar 25, 2015 at 8:14 pm

Oh Jerry… wondering if you've had a 'little nip' this evening :) lol

It's perfectly okay… you can share with us… we're one big f-a-m-b-i-l-y…

Billy

Jerry Adams BPL Member
PostedMar 25, 2015 at 8:22 pm

"Oh Jerry… wondering if you've had a 'little nip' this evening :) lol"

I follow the rule not to hit submit button after 'a little nip' : )

PostedMar 25, 2015 at 8:32 pm

@ Jerry… er…

lol lol lol….

gotta stop this… one week out on triple hernia surgery and it hurts to laugh… :(

billy

Bob Gross BPL Member
PostedMar 25, 2015 at 8:38 pm

"Because that is the law…. irregardless of what you 'feel' is right"

Billy, if you like that word — irregardless — then what is the opposite of it? Regardless? Then what is the difference between those two words?

We feel your pain.

–B.G.–

Jerry Adams BPL Member
PostedMar 25, 2015 at 8:41 pm

"gotta stop this… one week out on triple hernia surgery and it hurts to laugh… :("

my goal in life is to improve global health by inducing healthful belly laugh, forgot you were hernia recovery

PostedMar 25, 2015 at 8:47 pm

Yo Bobert…

the difference be:
irregardless is useful when speaking or writing in the 'vernacular' of, say, Li'l Abner… so to speak…

regardless is useful when not speaking is said 'vernacular'…

irregardless of how you cut it… :)

ouch… laughed again :(

Billy

PostedMar 26, 2015 at 5:57 am

It's ridiculous we flush with drinking water. What we need is a complete change in how things are plumbed. Reclaimed water should flow through our toilets and be used in the yard.

This drought is really bad. Plus it's always summer now. I used to wait until April to go on a local backpack trip. Now that is too late. I am going this weekend and I think March is going to be too late. The best time these days is January. I can be barefoot all year. I lift weights in my garage before dawn and can do it in a t-shirt even in January. I ride a Vespa around town and years ago I used to only get a two-week period of time when I didn't have to wear a warm jacket. Now I get periods of time in any month when I can ride in a tank top. I've lived in the same town my whole life so I can see the changes.

PostedMar 26, 2015 at 9:27 pm

After finishing my hydrology degree, then going back to school and receiving 2 years of additional water treatment training, I am now working for a coastal water district here in the Bay Area.

Before I say anything else, I strongly urge anyone interested in California's water problems to read "Cadillac Desert" by Marc Reisner.

As previously mentioned big AG and industry consumes 90% of our freshwater supply. Yes, some of this water is used to grow crops that are actually staples of our daily diets, but much more of it goes to luxury crops, many of which are exported to China (and other countries) for profit. Food crops such as almonds and walnuts are incredibly water intensive.

For instance, it takes one gallon of water to grow one almond and five gallons of water to grow one walnut.

California's ~40 million residents use less than 10% of the state's water supply. Central Valley farmers have received incredible amounts of welfare. Billions of dollars worth, subsidized by you and me.

Any large scale projects are years off into the future. The only feasible route I have read about in regards to a pipeline from BC Canada to California is via Idaho and Nevada owing to the (BLM) Federal Bureau of Land Management. The BLM can ignore the protests of individual states and build pipelines on federal land. The BLM owns enough land in those 2 states to feasibly construct a pipeline. You will never get a pipeline through Oregon and Washington. You will never get a pipeline from the Mississippi. We are already feeling the long-term environmental impacts of damming the West. Dams are out of favor now, and there is not much left to dam.

Desal is a very expensive form of water production. Incredibly energy intensive. Most plants I know of are using reverse osmosis technology, which is cheaper than previous methods, but still dependent upon energy rates. As solar becomes a more efficient source of energy, desal may become a more viable form of water treatment. However, there are also negative environmental impacts related to building and operating desal plants. Desal is not the panacea it's often made out to be.

Reclaimed/recycled water: This to me is an exciting alternative to the above scenarios, but again very expensive because of the need to build a secondary distribution network to deliver the water to customers, since you cannot at this time mix first-stage treated water and recycled water. I believe, though I could be wrong on this, that Orange County is already injecting treated wastewater back into the aquifer to help replenish their dwindling groundwater supplies. I do not know how long the water must remain in the aquifer before it can be pumped. However, there are growing concerns over pharmaceutical drugs, the result of people dumping them down their toilets, entering our water system via reclaimed water.

Individual usage:
There are many encouraging signs of growing awareness in my district. People are allowing their lawns to die. Outdoor water usage usually accounts for the bulk of a customer's monthly water bill. The goal within our district is to get people to use 75 gallons per day per person. This is an easily reachable goal, if customers curb their outdoor usage. Tear out the lawn and replace it with drought-tolerant landscape. Replace your old 3-5 gallon toilets with lower-flow 1.2 gallon toilets. Install rain barrels. Our district offers rebates for every conceivable water improvement. Our pumping is down 25% from February of 2013 to now.

Water rates will continue to rise. That's the conundrum for a district. Raise rates and customers, except for the extremely wealthy, tend to use less water, which means less income, which means districts raise rates again. It's a vicious cycle. Costumers tend to become conservation weary. They feel they are saving water only to watch their bill double and triple.

Maintaining treatment plants, wells, tanks, and a distribution network is expensive. Employees are expensive. Water has been cheap for too long. No more. Probably never again in California unless technology renders droughts meaningless. I doubt that will happen in my lifetime.

Another problem in my district, that is somewhat separate from much of the rest of the state, is saltwater intrusion. 100% of water in my district is groundwater and as we continue to drain the 2 aquifers supplying our system, saltwater is starting to encroach inland. We are working with Stanford and the USGS, among others, to monitor and study this problem.

I went to college in Southern California and still visit friends there frequently. Unfortunately, many people in SoCal treat water like an afterthought. 25-30 million people live in what is a desert. That bill is going to come due soon enough. In fact my best friends down there have an acre of lawn and a swimming pool in a neighborhood that averages 105* days in the summer. We disagree on a few things.

Long story short, California's water problems are complex. There are no one-size fits all solutions because the state has such various terrain and climate. Sometimes I think it's this complexity that frightens people into inaction.

However, maybe it's not that complex. Maybe it's time to abandon all these multi-billion dollar projects and look at ourselves in the mirror. As others have mentioned, here in the US we are always crying "More, more, more!" Well, maybe it's time to stop whining, stop complaining, stop thinking it is our American right to have a green lawn in a desert, and start using less.

Hey, less is more. Isn't that the BPL motto or some such.

(This officially concludes the longest rambling post I will ever contribute to BPL. I am on-call and tired from a 14-hour day. Cheers.)

Kattt BPL Member
PostedMar 26, 2015 at 9:41 pm

Thanks for the valuable information you shared with us.

Jerry Adams BPL Member
PostedMar 26, 2015 at 9:55 pm

Interesting info.

I think you chose the right career. No problem getting a job. Perfect timing.

Yeah, conservation is cheaper than building a pipe from Oregon, Canada, or Mississippi : )

PostedMar 26, 2015 at 10:14 pm

Geez,

And I even forgot to mention water rights and what a mess that is.

For instance, the district I work for only accounts for about 35%-40% of the total pumping between our 2 aquifers. These days we are partnering with private landowners outside of our district because we all have a stake in the future of our water supply. If salt water continues to invade the aquifers then our properties pretty much become worthless.

On 9/16/14 Gov Jerry Brown signed the Sustainable Groundwater Management Act of 2014, which is a step in the right direction.

Politicians have been afraid to touch water rights because it's such a hot-button topic.

Oh, and as I previously mentioned, I am tired and much of the above longer post was off the top of my head, so I encourage anyone reading it to do their own research. I will revisit them after more sleep.

Cheers

PostedMar 26, 2015 at 10:19 pm

"Yeah, conservation is cheaper than building a pipe from Oregon, Canada, or Mississippi"

Maybe not. You'd have to do a lot of estimating to actually know…

Building and entire second water distribution system for gray water for 39 million people and putting it under existing streets and into existing homes actually might be more expensive than building one big pipe on BLM land (many more miles of gray water pipe and each mile harder and more expensive under existing streets and parking lots, etc.)… and take longer…

Besides, conservation wouldn't allow us to grow almonds and sell them to China…
That would be bad for our Capitalistic System… Gotta get some money out of the Chinese… trade balance you know… and conservation, with everyone working together for a common good… hm… sounds like communism and playing right into the hands of the Chinese… they'll have us for sure then…

billy

Bob Gross BPL Member
PostedMar 26, 2015 at 10:44 pm

" (many more miles of gray water pipe and each mile harder and more expensive under existing streets and parking lots, etc.) "

Or, maybe not. You have to start somewhere. I live in a municipality that reclaims storm drain water and from other sources, and then it puts that into a system of purple pipes. That goes all over town for lawn irrigation. So, a big company with lots of landscape pays one water bill for the normal water, and then they pay another bill for the purple pipe water.

It works for me.

Lately, I'm not sure where the storm drain water is coming from. There is not much flow.

–B.G.–

AK Granola BPL Member
PostedMar 26, 2015 at 10:47 pm

Putting poo and pee into clean water is insane. Ever heard of the Humanure Handbook? It works. Save your water for drinking and stop polluting it with human waste.

Jerry Adams BPL Member
PostedMar 27, 2015 at 7:15 am

Orange County and San Diego have small programs putting treated waste water directly back into drinking water with plans to scale up.

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 234 total)
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