Why doesn't someone build a UL BPing chair…Entrepreneur needed!

[JCH]

Someone on another thread said “why don’t we have more ‘someone should build a…’ posts?”. Well, here you go.

First, take a look at the “Pouch Couch“. Now, obviously this thing is way too big, way to heavy and totally overbuilt, but (I think) the concept is right on the money.  Imagine that it were (at most) 1/3 the size, the closed end was ~12″ tall and the roll-closure end was ~30” tall, i.e. cut to be used as a chair.  Now use UL materials and you have a nearly perfect 4 oz(?) chair.

Seems like there would be a pretty good market for a true UL, uber-comfy chair.

[Franco Darioli]

“Imagine that it were (at most) 1/3 the size, the closed end was ~12″ tall and the roll-closure end was ~30” tall, i.e. cut to be used as a chair. Now use UL materials and you have a nearly perfect 4 oz(?) chair.”

It may not be as easy as it sounds.

[JCH]

Franco – of course it isn’t. :)  that’s why no one has made it yet.

[Emylene VanderVelden]

It’s a neat idea, I suspect no matter what chairs are out there I would end up with my old blue foam sit pad anyway. It’s just light and easier to pack.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Why don’t you give us a guideline as to what it is worth (price/ performance)?  I assume that the price would be non-linear with weight.

4 oz. – $350

8 oz – $100

16 oz – $40

 

What would you pay per oz?

[Ken Thompson]

Wait a couple decades Emylene.

[JCH]

As expected, value is a function of weight plus one’s age :)

Lets see, I paid $80 for a 2 lb Chair One.  $80 for a 10 oz Chammock. I’d easily pay the same or a 4 oz “pouch chair”… Quite possibly more.

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

ZPacks makes a pointy hat. You stop at a nice place to rest, take off the hat, unzip it and either use it as a sit pad or back rest. Since you wear it with a visor or ball cap, when you take it off you’re still wearing a hat.

[Lori P]

Get a polypropilene strap. Sew two loops in the ends. Loop one end around a tree, put a clove hitch in the strap, stick a stick or longish rock through the clove hitch, put the loop around the knot (not the stick!), repeat with the other end around another tree. Sit on the strap. Probably weigh 2 – 6 oz depending on how much strap you bring. Don’t have to sit on the ground anywhere. Add a length of fabric instead of using a continuous strap and have a Bushman’s Chair, already in production at Arrowhead Equipment.

[Todd T]

That thing does not look comfortable. It doesn’t look durable either, but that’s probably okay because you wouldn’t want to sit in it anyway.

Even if it fit the required specs above, it would be a bust. I predict the one on the webpage is already a bust.

[Roger Caffin]

Of course, the very lightest backpacking chair weighs zero grams. Works well.
The next lightest weighs as much as a foot-square bit of 1/4″ closed cell foam.

Cheers

 

[Lori P]

That thing does not look comfortable. It doesn’t look durable either, but that’s probably okay because you wouldn’t want to sit in it anyway.

Even if it fit the required specs above, it would be a bust. I predict the one on the webpage is already a bust.

What thing? If you mean the bushman’s chair, it IS comfortable, I have one, I use it. I’d sleep in it with the addition of a place to put my feet. It’s been on sale for YEARS now and continues to be, so I’d assume it’s successful enough…

If you mean the OP’s couch – I think it would depend on what it’s made of, and I suspect that for it to be comfortable against the skin (for most people) that wouldn’t be UL anything. And I suspect that it will pop like a balloon, at some point….

[Jim C]

I had an idea on my commute this morning: A seat back for a bear canister. If there’s any practicality at all to this idea, I welcome anyone to run with it.

 

I’ve yet to use a bear canister myself, but I know some folks like to use them as a seat. This makes sense: It elevates you above the ground and puts your legs lower than your behind, just as we typically sit.

Then you’ve got the chair kits from Thermarest and others that turn your sleep pad into a backed seat, but they don’t really elevate you off the ground.

So what if someone made a chair kit for a bear canister, that does the same thing, giving you a back rest? I suppose one challenge to overcome would be keeping the canister from tipping as you lean back, but some fold out legs could do the trick.

Maybe this idea is impractical, or maybe the niche of backpackers who bring a bear canister and want a seat back is too small. Thoughts?

[Dean F.]

That’s a difficult engineering challenge.  The issue is that we don’t have materials that are light enough for our standards yet strong enough in compression to take an adult human’s weight while also being rugged in bending and torsion.  Not to mention that strong but thin rods tend to puncture through fabrics.

But what about tension instead of compression?

I maintain that other than cost the 7.5oz Hummingbird Hammocks (including suspension) are a great “camp seat” solution, albeit with the usual hammock limitations- i.e. you need suitable anchors from which to hang them, so not great above treeline.  And the cited smallest 7.5oz model is really too small to comfortably sleep in unless you’re an Australopithecine, because you can’t get an asymmetrical lay.

[John “Jay” Menna]

“Of course, the very lightest backpacking chair weighs zero grams. Works well.”

Im afraid my again butt is getting heavier by the day.  And getting less and less comfortable I might add.

I have a 12 inch by 10 inch piece of reflectix.  Weigh nothing and takes the bumps out of the ground or log.

 

 

[Roger Caffin]

One of the great advantages of the CCF foam / reflectix pad is that it keeps your bum dry when the ground or log is wet. That is lovely.

Cheers

[Sam Farrington]

Check out X-C Ski Pole Tube Chair posted a couple years ago.

[Matt Swider]

Then you’ve got the chair kits from Thermarest and others that turn your sleep pad into a backed seat, but they don’t really elevate you off the ground.

You might be surprised how high one of these “chairs” elevates you off the ground.  I acquired one recently and was quite surprised not only how high my seat was off the ground, but how high the back rest was.  I have a bad hip, and sitting flat on the ground is rather uncomfortable.  My only real comfortable position for sitting is leaning back.  With my big agnes sleeping pad chair (or whatever its called) I can sit very comfortably on the ground, lean back, and very much enjoy myself.  Other than the 6oz (gasp!!) weight penalty, the only disadvantage I see with it is that it is a bit difficult to set up.  It never comes out at a trail break, only in camp.  Since I sleep on a full length neoair (another incredible weight penalty luxury) I have a 6 oz camp chair that is more comfortable than anything else I have seen or used on the trail.

Oh, the cost was $6.85 or so if I recall, it was a gear give away on this site by a kind soul who was passing along gear they did not use anymore.

[Dale Wambaugh]

If you sleep in a hammock, you have a chair too— with a roof as well. Nothing like brewing the morning coffee while surveying the view from a dry barcalounger :)

[JCH]

Best zero-added-weight chair I’ve found is to inflate my Xlite about 20-25%, roll it up like a burrito, slip it into the Schnozzle (pack liner and pad inflation) and roll the Schnozzle up tight. It’s the same concept as the TAR Jembe kit. Pros: good height off the ground and it’s very comfortable.  Cons: no back support.

[Jim C]

 

Continuing with my possibly crazy ideas…

Start with something like the TAR Jembe kit mentioned by JCH, make it to work with either a sleep pad or a bear canister, and add a chair back to it. Now, add guy lines to stake the thing down so you can lean back and not fall over.

[Bob Moulder]

I assume the Thermarest R&D folks have taken a mighty crack at it… the Air Chair (Pat. Pend. TM lol)  :^)

It is a very tall order to design a structure that weighs 1/4 lb that can support 200 lbs, or 800x its weight. The typical air mattress weighs about 12-20oz and usually supports about 200 lbs, therefore about 200x its weight. It’s not a surprise that the current lightest options for chairs are ‘hangers’.

Back to the air chamber option, even a material that incorporates aramid fibers would still require some sort of heat lamination (or other, yet undeveloped, methods) to bond/join the panels. Already there are issues with delamination (more with Exped, fewer with Thermarest… my rough guesstimate from following various forum threads) at 200x, so 800x is going to require a serious design breakthrough regarding the way the panels are joined. I think this is the crux of the problem.

Does anyone see a way to make something like this using an external frame (a la Helios) with carbon fiber tubes? I’ve given it only a little bit of thought and I don’t, but I would be delighted to be surprised!

However, I would not be surprised to learn that Thermarest engineers/designers are working on the panel joining problem (whether with heat bonding or otherwise) and an aramid fiber-reinforced (matrix with current materials) panel material. That would open a whole new world of possibilities… a real game changer.

 

[Alex H]

I have been using the Thermarest chair kits for years and like Matt find them extremely comfortable and the back rest is the important part to me, not the elevation part.  My surprise/disappointment is that the Compack chair now at 7 oz. is not more durable, while the 9.5 oz. Trekker is rugged.  I kept having the Compack material tear out at the joint of the stays even when used on soft ground much less on rock so had to go back to an old Trekker.  The Big Agnes chair has the same issues from what I have read.  If they could reinforce that area better I think an even lighter chair kit could be made.  I thought about contacting Chris Zimmer to work on it for a while including some carbon stays, might could get it down to 5 oz..  I find the added weight well worth it to stretch out my increasing old legs and back after long days.

[Curtis B.]

Here’s a thread that talked about some of the lightest chairs out there–the Jerry Chair being a decent innovation:

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/54182/

 

[Scott N]

One thing I’ve noticed about the air chair kits that is a bonus is warmth. I have a thermarest and a sea to summit version, is if you set it up at night you get the R value of your pad, making them quite toasty seats for hanging out when you aren’t moving. Compared to seats with mesh bottoms and no backs the warmth difference is significant. They can be a little slower to set up,  but with some practice about 90 seconds. The StS version specs at 8.5 oz, with some fabric trimming (carefully!) You can get it down to 6. Of course, they have the pointed out drawback of you would never take it out while on the trail.

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