Seam sealing eVent mitts

I did like shown here

Thanks, Ken!  That’s perfect – exactly what I was looking for.  The video makes it much easier to follow than written instructions (and it makes it clear why my first sealing job didn’t work).

Glad that helps.

I got a lot of water in while hiking in heavy rain.
Fundamental truth about backpacking in heavy rain:
You are guaranteed to get wet.

For a start, I suspect a lot of the rain came down your sleeve. There’s a big hole there.

Getting wet does not matter: we are totally wet inside a thin layer of dead skin cells. Staying warm DOES matter, but you can do that while wet.

Cheers

True, Roger.  The bigger problem with the mitts getting so wet was that I was wearing my light fleece gloves under them, and they got soaked – I count on them for warmth at night (sleep in them too).  I probably should have not worn the fleece gloves in heavy rain.  Mitt/glove combo was fine in light rain.  Much of my backpacking is done in the relatively dry west, and I haven’t quite figured out a complete system yet for wet but warm.  Still learning by lots of trial and error…

Hi Susan

a complete system yet for wet but warm.
Warm? In that case, forget completely wearing any gloves at all. You just don’t need them.

If it is warm and yet raining, we often skip the rainwear completely. We are going to get wet anyhow, so why get all sweaty as well? Granted, when it gets down to <5 C we put on our ponchos.

Cheers

I wasn’t very clear – I meant me being warm in wet conditions, not air temps being warm.  Heavy rain around, say, 5 C.  What would you recommend then, hand-wise?  What about 10 C?  I didn’t actually think of no gloves at those temps – maybe I’ll try it.  My immediate thought is numb hands, and therefore problems using/placing poles.  But maybe movement keeps them warm enough?

Heavy rain around 5 C – we would have our silnylon ponchos on and our hands inside the ponchos. We get a nice fug inside the poncho but have very fine control over just how hot – er, warm. The problem for hands is not being wet but getting a continuous stream of very cold water over them. So – we block the water.

10 C? Um. Depend on the wind. If wind then chill factor, so poncho. If not wind, possibly just walk faster without poncho. If slow country – possibly poncho.

You see, a lot or most of our walking here in Oz is off-track, often in scrub. The scrub makes a mess of any rain gear, and you quickly get wet from the wet bushes anyhow. And scrub walking is not fast, but can be energetic. If you are track walking then things might be rather different.

My 2C: in general terms new walkers tend to wear too much clothing and worry too much about getting wet.

Cheers

^ He gets like that. Enjoy your dry mitts.

The whole point of the MLD eVent mitt shells is to keep your sponge-like fleece gloves DRY (and your hands warm) in 35F rainstorms—but most especially when packing up a wet tent and gear in the winter.  10 seconds rolling up a wet tent and your fleece gloves are soaked . . . . for the next 4 days.

My MLD mitt shells are part of my winter standard load—and seam sealed with McNett’s seam grip I think (or is it silnet?)

My eVent shell mitts in action.  You can keep cold arm-water from entering the mitt opening by putting the rain jacket cuff over the top of the mitt shell.

It’s Seam Grip

susan …

use fuzzy open weave fleece gloves …. not the thin dense fleece

it should fell VERY fluffy and fuzzy on the inside …

the thinner dense fleece is fairly useless in the wet as the material start clinging to the skin with less an air gap … and the moisture is kept right next to the skin

roger is correct that in heavy nonstop rain water will eventually get into the shell mitts/gloves …. especially if you need to use yr hands constantly, or are taking off the mitts frequently (to access the pack, etc) …

shell mitts/gloves are useful in the snow, or when its windy …

but plan on having the fleece gloves get wet sooner or latter

remember fleece (and wool) for wet condtions is best if its fluffy like a bunny and fuzzy like a bear

;)

Keep reading this “you’re guaranteed to get wet” speaking as a English bloke (we get a fair bit of rain there) it’s absolute nonsense.

If you pick the right clothing and a pace that’s not going to get you sweating buckets you can spend all day in the rain and still stay dry underneath.

I’ve been running, cycling, hiking and riding motorbikes in the rain, if the gear is well designed for the task you can very easily stay dry.

I’ve returned to the car after 8 hour hikes where it was like standing under the shower at home for at least 6 of those hours, removed the outer shell and drive home warm and dry.

Also strongly disagree with

Getting wet does not matter: we are totally wet inside a thin layer of dead skin cells.

Comparing internal organs with the abuse our outside skin has to go through is ridiculous.

Our internal organs are not pruning up and rubbing against each each for hours on end.

I think it’s great that we get such a broad spectrum of advice here, making absurd claims like above is extremely unhelpful to the point of being dangerous.

If we class our our external skin the same as our internal organs then trenchfoot would not be a problem.

My advice is to buy kit that suits your needs, if it’s raining then i always aim for layering as little as possible under my shell, to the point where i’m cold if i stop for more than a few mins.

It’s also worth slowing down your pace if you can, this makes a massive difference in how much sweat your shell has to deal with.

Your absolutely going to get wet sooner or latter

notice how every BPL article on the rain (put out by some very experienced folks) focuses on managing dampness … Not staying dry

But then again maybe they dont ride motorbikes and rewarm at the pub afterwards

;)

What can i say Eric, thousands of hours outdoors in the rain over my lifetime yet more often than not i’ve stayed warm and dry.

As do hundreds of other UK hikers, do you honestly think hiking would be so popular in the UK if everyone got wet every time it rained, cause it rains a fair bit in the UK

Yes i have been wet through, this has been when i’ve worn badly designed or faulty shells and is the exception rather than the rule.

I’ve found you have to pick and choose what to believe, you could for example read a blog of someone with years of hiking experience, but if they’ve been doing things wrong all those years then those experiences are worse than pointless.

It’s not like every experienced hiker has a blog or flaunts their accomplishments on the internet either is it

1. Choose the right clothing
2. Layer up so you’re a little cold when stopped
3. Slow your pace
4. If the rain slows up then vent where you can
5. If it’s not too cold something as simple as rolling up your sleeves makes a noticeable difference

But then again maybe they dont ride motorbikes and rewarm at the pub afterwards

If you finish a hike (either day or multi-day) with a Brit there is a very strong chance you’ll end up at either a pub or a cafe tucking into the full monty

Mark

Perhaps you can give a few hints to your fellow brit here …. Im sure mr townsend doesnt have your bredth of knowledge about rainy conditions ….

“Clothing needs to be quick drying and reasonably warm when damp as it will get wet to some extent over several days of rain. The outer layer must be waterproof. As temperatures can change rapidly a layer system works best. Thin layers also absorb less water than thicker ones and so dry more quickly.

http://www.christownsendoutdoors.com/2014/10/backpacking-in-cold-and-wet.html?m=1

For yankee conditions da great skurka basically says the same thing … Manage the dampness and wetness

http://andrewskurka.com/2015/backpacking-in-the-rain-helpful-gear-skills/

;)

You arent getting into personal attacks are ya now?

I have no one person in mind, just a general observation

Perhaps you can give a few hints to your fellow brit here …. Im sure mr townsend doesnt have your bredth of knowledge about rainy conditions

Be nice to disagree about something without the condescending attitude Eric

I don’t care a jot what anyone else’s experiences are, both the people you mention are sponsored by outdoor clothing manufacturers, be that directly or indirectly through advertisements for magazines they write articles for

Even then there is a big difference between

Fundamental truth about backpacking in heavy rain:
You are guaranteed to get wet

and

it will get wet to some extent over several days of rain

You quoted but didn’t highlight the key words though

The outer layer must be waterproof

I am happy for you to disagree with me Eric but i will not respond to your trolling and condescending posts.

I don’t use “trolling” lightly, but you have a habit of disagreeing with me.

I don’t mind that, my problem is rather than using your own experiences and opinions you quote complete strangers opinions and experiences.

I’ve stated my opinion, i’ve stated my experiences, you disagree then good on ya, i’m not going take your bait anymore though.

Good advise everyone, thanks.  My fleece gloves are thin and dense.  Not spongelinke, or thick and fuzzy and fluffy.  Will look for a different pair.  Good point about slowing down – need to remember this. I probably walk faster if anything, thinking to get the tent set up and out of the rain faster.  My gear and strategies for the Rockies and Sierras need major changes for UK/Pacific NW-type weather.

Ummm mark …

Both roger and chris said you are going to get wet ….

Skurka basically says the samething as well

Every good article on the subject and everyone whose been out long enough in the cold rain says more or less the same thing

They key is in managing the moistuure to reduce the wetness (to just damp hopefully), not in staying dry

As to you personal attacks on me in yr last post … Well thats BPL i guess

When you state

I’ve found you have to pick and choose what to believe, you could for example read a blog of someone with years of hiking experience, but if they’ve been doing things wrong all those years then those experiences are worse than pointless.

Im simply asking if you believe mr townsend and skurkas experiences “are worse than pointless”

As basically what they aay mirrors to a large degree what roger and indeed the BPL articles on rain have said for years

No need to go off like that

;)

Susan ….

If no one has mentioned it yet test the re-sealed mitts in a tub of water

Also be aware than seam seal may peel eventually … I reseales a “waterproof” dead bird pack last year, however the sealant is already peeling

So retest em every now and then …. Also one can seal both the inside and outside

As to fleece gloves .. You should be able to soak them, wring em out, and wear em walking around and they should feel just damp (not wet) …. Also gloves slightly looser dont feel as wet (less skin contact)

You can sometimes find these kind of cheap fleece gloves at department stores …. They should feel like a regular normal fuzzy fleece

;)

Good advise everyone, thanks.  My fleece gloves are thin and dense.  Not spongelinke, or thick and fuzzy and fluffy.  Will look for a different pair.  Good point about slowing down – need to remember this. I probably walk faster if anything, thinking to get the tent set up and out of the rain faster.  My gear and strategies for the Rockies and Sierras need major changes for UK/Pacific NW-type weather.

Tipi’s advice of pulling you coat over your gloves/mittens is absolutely essential

If you use hiking poles it’s also worth tightening your sleeve straps on your jacket, as i’ve found if i’m hiking up hill the water will run down my gloves into my sleeves unless i tighten them

If you use hiking poles and you’re handy at making stuff (i’m terrible) then it might be worth having a go at making something like this

http://www.pacerpole.com/product/pacerpole-over-mitts

We’ve had similar things on bikes for years and they work surprisingly well

I think it’s unlikely they’ll be waterproof, but it should stop a LOT of rain creeping up your sleeve

To the OP: it sounds like you are doing fine in the daytime but wet liner gloves are not working for you at night. Why not bring a second pair of gloves for sleeping in a ziplock? If you rely on gloves while sleeping that might be <2 ounces worth carrying so you can be comfortable.

Must endorse Tipi’s comments about wearing overmitts when packing up a tent – especially in the snow! Bare hands can get dangerously frozen then. At least the overmitts!

Matthew’s comment about keeping sleeping gear very separate from day gear is a very good one. Do not bring wet gear inside your quilt ‘to dry’: the moisture will end up in the down and make it soggy and cold.

Eric’s comment about being able to wring the right sort of fleece ‘semi-dry’ is a good point. I have even done that with a 300-wt fluffy fleece jacket once – in the snow. It worked. Tight fleece is good for hard wearing, but it retains the water more.

I’ve walked in the UK a bit. Damp place, lots of drizzle. Wales was wet. But water is water.

Cheers

Great points ands advice from Matthew and Roger

I always carry a spare hat, pair of gloves and socks if the forecast is wet

For overnighters i have spare socks and hat kept in a dry bag with my sleep kit, as Roger advises i keep my wet kit well away from any sleep kit

One thing worth thinking about

Our hands do not put out much heat, you will certainly be warmer with no gloves than with wet gloves.

Might sound a little strange but wet clothing (even wool) will drain body heat a lot quicker than wearing nothing, of course if the wind is blowing all bets are off, but there was a case a few years ago where a woman was stranded, when her clothing got wet she had the good sense to remove it, it’s almost certainly a major factor in her being found alive

For clothing, our torso puts out a fair bit of heat, so if you did get any top damp wringing it out and using your body as a heater will work with some materials (not with Merino in my experience), you need to be well fed and pushing it though.

Slow down or stop and that wet or even slightly damp layer will drain heat from your body very very quickly.

With gloves our hands in my experience i just don’t put out enough heat to dry them, even if they are only slightly damp.

Once I’ve set camp i usually fill one of my water containers up with hot water and place a glove over that, if they’re well wrung out it’s surprising how much drier they can get this way

Failing that, if it’s stopped raining i’ll wring them out and move them around pockets till they get dryish
Tucking them in the small of my back gets them fairly dry, but after a point they just get damp from sweat, so they go in a pocket after that