New Durston Iceline Trekking Poles — but no straps :/

Regarding R&D, I shared some lab results here but that is not the only thing we do. We have done lab tests all along, but also quite a bit of field testing.  I’ve personally used the poles for over a year and we have quite a few other people testing them as well.

In the case of the quick connect, in the original version the pole will most often break here because it is the bottleneck for strength on the pole. Somewhere has to be the strength bottleneck and wherever that is will tend to see the most breaks, even though if it were made stronger then oftentimes somewhere else would just break in the same incident. So of course it is possible to break the poles and certainly stronger is better (and we are making further progress towards that) but the original version did meet our strength goals and has a fairly low real world break rate (1-2% reported breaks, of which many are traumatic incidents).

While I think the original version is a good pole, I very much recognize that great products come through continual refinement and feedback, which is why with all of my gear I value feedback and am constantly updating it. Our X-Mid tents were pretty dialed in back in 2019 and yet we are still updating them several times per year. Same for these poles – they will see updates for the next run and probably all of the runs for the next several years at least. There is always more we can do to save weight, add strength, improve reliability, and ease of use. So it is not unusual there are updates for the next batch.

I do passionately stand behind these poles, so we are providing free replacement sections for all breaks (even if the user is adamant it was their fault). If someone does break the quick connect on a v1 pole, we will soon be able to provide a v2 tip section at no cost, so their pole is not only stronger than new but also improved in a variety of other ways (TBA).

<p style=”text-align: left;”>I used to ham fist hiking poles like Richard P mentions. I thought it inefficient at best and tiring all the time. Then I ran into a couple of retired Brits hiking the AT who showed me how to use poles efficiently by putting most pressure on the strap (weight on heel of the hand) and letting my fingers control pole placement. I never looked back. They also use a Nordic style motion on level ground like JScott mentions. Now that’s it’s second nature, weight on the strap, grip between thumb and index finger-one finger behind the grip to control placement, my pole tips dance across the terrain – rooty, rocky, dirt or a mix. I rarely need to grasp the entire grip in my hand, which I found tiring on all-day hikes. The technique worked great on the rocky boulder fields of the Presidential Range in NH  So Dan, I’m elated that you will have a strap option!</p>

What Bill said.

Also, for all that to work right, the poles can’t be too long.  If you’re hiking with your hands up by your armpits, the poles will do you no good beyond being feelers and you’ll get tired using them.  Get them well under you and, pow!  The standard advice of “arm at 90 degrees with pole vertical” is at least seven inches too long for me.  I don’t know who made up that advice, but it wasn’t anyone who’s used poles correctly.  :-)

“I don’t know who made up that advice, but it wasn’t anyone who’s used poles correctly.  :-)”

Interesting. I often see folks using their poles set really low and have to bite my tongue. I personally find the roughly 90 degree angle–a right angle– to be most efficient on level ground. Especially for those who want to use their wrists for leverage/propulsion. Or just for better balance and comfort and ease. I see no real advantage to holding one’s poles down below one’s waist on flat ground. but that’s just me! we all have different anatomies, “from the tip of (our) toes to the top of (our) head” as Paul Simon sings.

Of course I don’t hike with my poles up near my armpits. Maybe my math is off. That’s not a 90% angle, is it?

And I adjust my pole lengths going up hill or downhill as needed. On steep,rocky downhill terrain, yes, my poles may well be well extended. Or–andhere’s why I find minimal or no pole straps to be most advantageous–I simply palm the tops of my poles, and then adjust my hands on the grips step by step as the terrain requires. It’s all very intuitive and easy. A goat does this as well. etc.

I don’t know if this is the way or not, but I thought I would resurrect this thread with an update that the new ice line poles are available. I have two new lower sections and hope to put them to the test this coming year. I’m still skeptical about the quick connect joint after my light use failure (pictured), but I’m hopeful.  I’m also attaching a picture of the old lower section (L)  and the new lower section (R). My eyes can only detect a difference in the location of the grommets and the distance of what appears to be the pin securing the quick connect joint. The new pin is closer to the quick connect tip by about half.

When you are loading weight on the pole, in certain circumstances it can be torquing that aluminum knob like a lever. The physics of it are hard to explain, but essentially it puts a bunch of leverage on the base of the aluminum knob and no leverage at the top.

With the original version of the pole the lower groove was 10% of the way up the knob, so you have about 10:1 leverage on that groove. The change may not look radical for the latest version, but it has been moved higher to about 20% of the way up. Like this, the leverage force on that groove is approximately reduced in half so it is about twice as hard to break. It’s not quite that simple, but it is substantially stronger which we have confirmed with a series of break tests. It’s still not impossible to break, but it is quite a bit stronger than any other adjustable pole near this weight.

It is strong enough now that it is no longer the bottleneck for strength on the pole. When we do break tests on the new pole, it fails at various points all at about the same load. So it is much improved now, and if we wanted to make the pole stronger yet we’d have to beef it up in various locations on the pole. If needed that could be done, but I am trying to find that balance of being strong enough while keeping it so light that it is a delight to use.

Thanks for the explanation Dan!

I got a set of Icelines from the first run back in 2024 and broke a tip in the first 100 miles of use which I wrote about early in this thread.

At first I thought it was my own fault – chocked it up to the hard terrain and user error, Dan was very responsive and sent me a replacement lower section, but then the reports of failures started to come in and I had also wore out the other tip on my very next training hike. This time instead of ordering a replacement from Dan I just threw some BD replacement tips over them, however with the ever growing reports of failure I could not bring myself to trust them again. I just felt like I couldn’t rely on them in the backcountry . So they where relegated to the depths of the gear closet for all this time.  Until today…
I  have a week long trip coming up on some pretty mellow terrain and I will be using a tarp  not a trekking pole tent so today I thought maybe this is a  trip that I could get some use out of the Icelines,  thinking it’s going to be  less likely I will break one on this trip and it wouldn’t be a real problem if I did considering I would be using the tarp and there would be plenty of trees.
I figured I’d use them on my training hike today and if they performed okay I’d take them on my trip.
Long story short they did not perform okay; about three miles into my hike I slipped a bit on some leaf obscured ice and when I planted the pole to regain my balance I snapped the middle connector piece clean off.
I guess I was right not to trust these things and I’m glad I left them behind in favor of my more robust albeit much heavier poles on all of my longer trips.
I know that Dan has updated and strengthened these connection points on the newer version and he  has been replacing the broken sections free of charge,  however I feel like I would need all the connections points replaced in order for me to have enough confidence in these to warrant giving them another shot.
Oh well , I guess maybe I’ll do some pole shopping tonight. If anyone has any good recommendations for a dependable reasonably light but durable adjustable length trekking pole, preferably with an extended grip please shout em out!

“which I wrote about early in this thread”

I usually forget I wrote it about something earlier and then repeat it

Seems to be getting worse with age : )

We have broken every single set of lowers from our original six poles. We have some replacements, but I do not trust the poles anymore and have not been using them. I will have to ask my friends what their updated situation is.

Have you tried a wooden 3/4″ broom handle?
Very cheap, very robust.
You can even fit a steel ring at the bottom.

Cheers

“I know that Dan has updated and strengthened these connection points on the newer version and he  has been replacing the broken sections free of charge”

Regarding the strength of the connection point, we did get reports in summer 2024 of breaks here. More specifically, the metal connector would break at the lower O-ring groove. I looked into it and determined that essentially what could happen is that if the connector ends up experiencing a leverage type of stress, then the fulcrum point (max stress) was too close to that lower groove, which could result in it breaking too easily.

We did an update for that in fall 2024 where we moved the groove higher (away from the fulcrum). That made it substantially harder to break the connector by a factor of about 3x. Obviously at a high enough load it is still possible to break, but in the 1.5 years since then we have seen a drastically lower rate of breaks because it is much stronger now.

“I feel like I would need all the connections points replaced in order for me to have enough confidence”
We are happy to support early customers with free upgraded connector sections, including proactively. So if you send us an email we are happy to send out the revised version that is much stronger include for both poles, so you will have that higher strength.

“We have some replacements, but I do not trust the poles anymore and have not been using them”
I don’t remember all the dates/history here, but as I recall, I believe we sent you replacement connector sections with the updated design (higher O-ring groove).  So they are substantially stronger than the originals. They are still a lightweight pole that won’t handle as high of loads a heavy pole, but the revised connectors are several times harder to break than originally.

Here’s my take: my replacement icelines have held up to a summer and winter season without any major issue. That includes a good bit of off trail bushwhacking in the Cascades. I notice a very slight bend in one but it doesn’t seem to be getting worse, and it’s nothing like the bend in the first set. I recently took a fall coming down a snowy hill, leveraged the pole and thought they were done, but they survived! Other carbon poles get slight bends over time, but I have to admit a quick connect bend lowers my confidence compared to other poles (and I think I baby them more than other ultralight poles because of this). Maybe the improvements and testing mentioned earlier should ease my hesitation. But it doesn’t matter currently because I’m using an X-dome now so if they break it’s not as critical 😁 All the paint is completely gone so I etched a line where I need them to be. I see that issue is addressed in the new poles but be aware if you’re buying used. We’ll see if they make it another season! (I’ve been pretty lucky as the only poles I’ve ever broken were from using in snow without baskets). I do love the weight, the flip lock, and thicker gauge. I will not be going back to heavier poles. I do still prefer the grip on the LT5’s, they fit so well in the hand.

I’m sure Dan will make good on any failures, Durston customer service is supreme. He and Komperdell will resolve any issues over time, but this is the risk you take when you market an item before doing extensive field testing first…especially with materials as fragile as carbon. I got a good laugh from Darwin at about :46 in the video.

Jason,

If you like GG grips you should try Diorite grips(formerly CNOC), this is their website currently: https://minimalgear.com

The grips are the same up top, and the extended bottom bit is actually very nice. The only difference is that they are a bit firmer to start.  Where I find GG grips soften up too much over time, the Diorote grips soften up to a perfect amount.

I put the Diorite grips onto the new Iceline poles and love them. Still do not love the super thin tips on the poles but that is a minor thing to deal with in soft soil.

K2

“We are happy to support early customers with free upgraded connector sections, including proactively. So if you send us an email we are happy to send out the revised version that is much stronger include for both poles, so you will have that higher strength.”

Thanks Dan, your customer service is truly some of the best in the industry.

I am willing to give them another shot if I can get both sections replaced, but honestly they will need to gain my trust on a few lower stakes trips before I will put my faith in them for a longer trip.

It’s encouraging that the connector weak point issue seems to have been resolved but has there been anything done to resolve the issue with the carbon fiber around the tips wearing down prematurely? As well as the Issue highlighted in the Darwin video of dirt getting stuck in the button mechanism causing the segments to not fully lock into place?
If not I suppose I could probably go ahead and coat the carbon on the lower tip portion with some epoxy or something along those lines to keep them from wearing out quite as quickly.  As   for the button I guess I’ll just try to keep it clean and hope for the best,  but if these other issues have already been addressed in some way or another it would definitely help mitigate some of my hesitation to use these in the way that I had originally intended.

My friends report having bent one of the new lowers slightly (5-10 degrees). After gently straightening it, it no longer locks; it is being held together by friction. They don’t use them much anymore, and when they do it is for day hikes into the mountains around Juneau. They definitely do not trust them for overnight trips. I’m pretty much in the same boat.

“as there been anything done to resolve the issue with the carbon fiber around the tips wearing down prematurely? As well as the Issue highlighted in the Darwin video of dirt getting stuck in the button mechanism causing the segments to not fully lock into place?”

It’s been a bit since I watched that video, but as I recall, the issues that Darwin had were:

1) Button not working
2) Broke the shaft near the tip
3) Bend at connector

He speculates that the button wasn’t working because of dirt inside, but that cause is a broken spring. The buttons worked well on our first batch, but on the second batch of poles we saw some reports of the button breaking (shown in blue). We determined it was from manufacturing defects in the spring and switched spring suppliers so we have the button in a good place now for about a year (on the 2 batches since):

His other 2 issues weren’t defects with the pole, but damage which does happen sometimes with a light pole in rough conditions (off-trail, talus etc).

I agree that these are the not the ideal poles for rugged conditions like 10 days off-trail in Alaska. Then are a UL pole that is best suited to on-trail use, and then I am considering coming out with a more rugged “off-trail” version.

For your question about the tips, those issues were primarily also second batch manufacturing issues (shown in red in the graph) where the glue could be insufficient and loosen, and also is down to no reported issues in our current poles. But there are less common reports of (1) losing a tip is from breaking, abrading, or cracking the shaft near the tip. Those are much less common and part of the trade off with a lighter pole, but if you did want to guard against this you could add more traditional plastic tips. We have some here we include for free if people would like them.

🤔

I hear ya Philip and  I hope you all  got room in that boat for one more because I’m already most of the way in.

But like I said I’ll give them another try on some day hikes when I’m rucking and see how it goes after I get the replacements. I don’t usually even use poles on day hikes if I’m not rucking (except for winter when I opt for  more durable aluminum poles) so I’m going to really have to make an effort to put them to use.
I think I have realized though that as far as I’m concerned there are a lot more worthwhile areas to shave weight than in poles, if I bring poles into the backcountry I want to have a reasonable amount of faith in them that they will make it through the trip and honestly I don’t really mind a little more heft in the pole as long as they have a well balanced swing.  I’d rather they weren’t to terribly heavy but I think I can easily spend an ounce or even two (gasp 😱)  per a pole in favor of durability over being ultralight.

Nicholas: I replied to your questions in a comment was submitted almost exactly at the same time as yours, so FYI that it is easy to miss (e.g. not there when you viewed the thread, and then landed above your comment).

Thanks for the response Dan , the issue I experienced with the tips was both do to the glue and to the carbon fiber wearing down very quickly around them which is why I did go ahead and add some replacement tips over them,  but I think that where the selling point of these poles is their lightness and simplicity it would be nice to not have to add secondary tips to the pole preemptively to mitigate against premature ware.  I think they would benefit from a bit more protection around the first few inches of exposed carbon fiber in the next iteration in the form of a plastic sheath or just scrapping the tip design in favor of a more traditional one.

As for the Dawin video it has  been awhile since I watched that as well and I’m sure it probably was as you say due to a broken spring but as recall I don’t think that was the sole example of people having issue with dirt in the button. I have experienced minor difficulty with the button at times and I can see how this could become an issue in the right conditions.

I bought the icelines shortly after the version with the straps came out. I barely use the straps, though.

I broke the bottom section right at the connector using it like a sword on some devils club in Resurrection Pass here in Alaska. That was my fault, and I bought a replacement section. I used them again around Lost Lake up here, and broke the lower segment by getting it caught between my legs during a brief stumble-and-catch-myself while hiking off trail on a rocky slope. They replaced that segment under warranty, which was awesome. Both of those breaks happened at the metal connector, and the carbon fiber was not the point of failure.

Then I hiked the Colorado Trail with them last Summer/Fall, twice, and the metal tips fell off both pieces and I gradually wore down the carbon fiber to the point of the basket attachment points. I assume this was a glue issue, or something. Here’s a picture of them with relatively minimal miles on them AFTER the metal tips fell off (one was more worn down because the tip fell off earlier on it than on the other one).

There was a slight variation in the length of the bottom segments I received, too:

Even without the metal tips, the poles worked fine for setting up my shelter, and the traction was still workable, if less than desirable. Once I got home, I followed up with Durston Gear and they sent me new bottom segments and added in extra tips as well. I’m sure those tips will add to the swing weight some, but if they extend the life while still maintaining really low weight, that’s a trade I’ll experiment with. It’s winter in AK so I have been using metal poles on what outings I have made in this cold and dreary winter, but I expect to use my icelines again this summer, hopefully a lot.

These are a great tool within their parameters, but certainly not as robust as a nice solid broom handle. They can take down cow parsnip like a champ, though.

I have owned a lot of carbon fiber poles.  Probably all of the most popular poles.  I have broken them all.

I recently broke an Ice Line pole.  I did it downhill skiing.  Dan replaced the broken component.  I was advised not to use the poles for downhill skiing.  Of course, I already knew this before the break.  I like the in-hand feel of these poles so much, I thought I would see if they were the exception to the rule.  They were not.  Back to aluminum for downhill skiing.  I will still be using them for skinning, where the surfaces are softer.  In the process, I discovered this: the pole is totally modular.  When you break a pole, you don’t have to purchase a new set of poles, unlike with the prior poles I had broken. These poles are so light that I can carry a spare lower section when backpacking, just in case, and still be lighter than any other suitable pole. The replacement components are reasonably priced, and now Durston’s selling and delivery uses Amazon and happens very fast. So, life is full of compromises, and this is one I am willing to make.