How does it take up this much room?!

. How I Pack My Gear 2020 – 35L Pack (Full Comfort) .

. HERE is a link to more links I post for new people trying to bring less stuff and lighten their load there are a lot of articles and videos including ones on going lighter for cheap, if you are interested in the gear he was packing into his 35L pack in my previous post here is a video showing his gear My 2020 Thru-Hike Gear List .

18# base weight is a lot of stuff. There’s nothing wrong with bringing that much stuff if you want to carry it but that’s why you can’t use a smaller pack.

I do 7 day trips in a 45L pack w/ a bear can inside and half a 2-person, free standing tent strapped in to the side pockets.

Your pad and bag sound good.  That’s a large med kit, and you could go w/ a smaller cook pot.  Is the Gatewood your shelter, or just rain gear?  If the latter, what’s your shelter?  How bulky is the survival gear?  Water treatment?  How ’bout your clothes and insulation?  Do you carry sleep clothes in addition to the one change of clothes you mention?

My cook kit fits in a 10cm Imusa mug, no handle.  I use a Sawyer in-line filter.  My survival/med/repair gear is about the size of a soft ball – I only carry 1oz of sun block, 1oz of bug spray, and I count out tooth paste tablets.   My rain gear and insulated pants/jacket are all minimalist WPB/down, each of the 4 pieces around 8oz., all of which packs fairly small – heavy gear is bulky gear.  I also cary a spare base layer top, warm pair of socks, and spare underwear – no extra pants (I already have rain pants and down pants).  That’s enough to wear while I wash everything I hiked in and let it dry over night – no dedicated sleep wear.

If you haven’t already, look over how you fit everything in to your pack – is there a lot of dead space, could you be more space efficient?  Are you cramming things in to stuff sacks, which then leave odd gaps around them when fit in the pack?  Would folding/rolling/packing things in to different shapes fit better?  Putting things in over sized stuff sacks means they’ll better conform to other lumpy items, taking up less space.  Can you get multiple uses out of anything, that would let you leave something else behind?

One thing I’ve found that makes life easier is only folding my air pad in half, rather than thirds.  Much easier to roll up, and easier to pack efficiently since it’s almost as wide as my pack – sits on top of my sleeping bag, against my back, protected from thorns, with minimal dead space around it.

The gear is packed solid.  I don’t use stuff sacks or compression sacks, just plastic bags and a trash bag for the sleeping bag.  The pack itself is one main waterproof compartment anyways.  Definitely working on getting a lighter cook set but that will come when paychecks start again!  Sleep in a light base layer which I also wear if it gets cold during the day.  I definitely prefer to have a sleep layer as it helps keep the bag a little cleaner and not a whole lot of places to dry a sleeping bag in a NYC apartment!  My extra pants are Marmot rain pants.  Other than that I have a light beanie, gloves, 5oz windshell, 6oz fleece, 8oz merino hoodie (main shirt), and a 800 fill Montbell jacket.

Water filter is a Sawyer Micro with just the fill bag.  Don’t need the back flow syringe for short trips.  If I need more water storage I have a 2L Platypus.

The survival/bushcraft gear is about the size of a softball.  Fire steel, a few cotton balls, bandana, compass, relevant quads, 50ft of paracord, two ultralight carabineers, needle/thread, Opinel knife.

The Gatewood is my rain protection and my shelter.  I have a Stargazer bivy that I use unless it’s raining.

Admittedly the med kit is large however it carrie just enough to be able to handle anything that comes up including major traums/bleeds.  It weighs 11oz.

Great advice on folding the pad!

I can’t do with less than a 60L pack if I want to stay warm. I’ve tried, and I just can’t. Being cold sucks for me. Once I’m chilled, it takes hours to warm up. So I use a full sleeping bag, and clothes sufficient to stay warm, which for me is a lot more than what Darwin shows in the video. Looking at what Darwin’s packing, his quilt and clothes are the size of my sleeping bag by itself. My warm clothes add much more bulk. But after walking 8 hours in pouring rain, hail, snow, I know I will be warm that night! Unlike him, I will hike with a fleece, balaclava, waterproof mitts, etc. If I don’t need them, they have to go in the pack. But I cannot stay warm without the layers, if it’s 40 and raining, no matter how hard I hike. Then when I’m heading to bed, I need that puffy, dry baselayers, etc. I notice he doesn’t go out in snow…I imagine if he’s caught out in days-on wet, he’d power through, go off trail and stay in a motel, not an option for me where I hike.  Do you have that option if needed?

I notice I take a lot less food for 4 days than what he’s showing, but I take a larger stove, so it ends up about the same size wise. I want hot water fast, in 40F with rain and the wind blowing. He doesn’t have a bear canister, which I almost always have, if I don’t carry an Ursack. No hanging food here!

His first aid kit is half the size of mine, and probably a fourth the size of yours, David! (no dental floss?!) He doesn’t have sunscreen, medications, or bug dope, nor a bug headnet. He doesn’t carry a book, or maps, or an inReach, or a pen. He doesn’t have a headlamp, or a knife. He doesn’t have firestarter, a mirror, a whistle, any extra cord or plastic, etc. He doesn’t have bear spray. He carries less water capacity than I do.

If you can live without all that stuff, you can pack as light as Darwin. But maybe you just can’t, and that’s ok. I’m still learning to pack lighter, but I’ve learned that camping in June in Alaska without a headnet is a recipe for utter insanity – ask the caribou! Betting Darwin would feel the same way.

YMMV

A lot of it is simply body size. Some of it is fitness and acclimatisation AS is a skinny size Medium. I am a relatively blocky XXL. 184 tall and 115 kilos; all my stuff is 30 to 50 % bigger Also because I am bigger I burn though more kilojoules and need a bit more food and therefore a little more fuel. My daypack is 40 litres even if it is only 8 kilos of critical survival gear [ not including skis/snowshoes/ice axe and crampons] but including a snow shovel and full goretex bivvy bag. An XXL DAS parka or similar simply needs that amount of space. The size of pack you use is meaningless to other people unless you also include your stature and fitness levels. I can use a 60 litre pack in summer but for winter I really do need 100litres plus

If you look at Darwin’s list he does carry a bug net it is 10 min 25 sec into his video, he also carries a headlamp a UCO 150  6 min 12 sec into the video he carries a knife(same one I have carried for years)the Victorinox classic  6 min 18 sec into the video he doesn’t show the contents of his first aid or repair kit but he has in others and if he is hiking through an where sunscreen is necessary he carries Joshua tree brand sun screen and lip balm and as others do who don’t like deet he will wear wind pants and long sleeve shirt(or wind jacket) along with his head net he does carry medications and Leukotape  just not gone through in that video, in the trips he is packing for in that video he is not going into the Alaskan bush so he is not packing for that, he generally is hiking well established trails in the lower 48.The video was to show what people who are carrying smaller packs are carrying and how they pack it since that was your question. I do suggest you check out the other articles and videos in my link for new members there are some great videos by  Mike Clelland( he is a NOL insrtuctor and author) like his ones on first aid and repair kit called the Dinky Stuff part 1 and 2(all the videos are good HERE  ) but check out all the others in my second post links.Also keep in mind as a general rule men don’t get as cold as women, that again is a general rule. Alan Dixon and Andrew Skurka(also linked in my other post) have great sites as well. Welcome to BPL!

I found these threads that really inspired me recently to focus on pack volume.

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/65678/

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/13855/#comments @annapurna you should repost the rest of those links from your post in that thread, I manually navigated to each one and most are amazing!

Some gear makers are suspiciously silent in their marketing when it comes to packed to size. Other manufactures are quick to post a picture of their product in its stuff sack next to a 1L nalgene water bottle (which seems to be the standard marketing reference for pack size used by companies that make stuff that packs small).

My goal is to put together a 24L pack kit for summer:

6L for total sleep system +warm clothes (pad, pillow, quilt, down jacket, down socks, synthetic long johns, gloves, buff, beanie) in one dry bag.

2L for rain gear + windshirt

3L for shelter

1L for water filtration + misc (headlamp, bug net, bandanna, etc. things that go in smaller pockets like hip-belt pockets)

12L for cook system + food

Water bottles and fak in exterior pockets

Add 2L to shelter and 4L to rain-gear/ extra clothes, and a 30L pack bag should still theoretically work. On paper this sounds crazy, but looking at all the photos of small kits people have posted  I’m confident its possible.

Check out these product images taken from their webpages:

MSR Tarps:

Thermarest posted two packed size pics for the Vesper Quilt!

In general I’m following the rule of thumb that polyester packs a little smaller than nylon which packs much smaller than DCF; I hope this is true for my wallets sake! I’m now shopping for gear with packed size as a greater priority than weight. Turns out all the stuff that packs small is lightweight anyway. Without primary focus on how small each piece of gear packs, I don’t think I would ever get below 45L.

The bear can presents a challenge too. A myog pack with a spot to carry the bear can outside the packbag is a clean solution:

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/59937/#comments

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/diymyog-cuben-fiber-dcf-sierra-backpack/

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/18-8oz-myog-framed-pack-carrying-bv500/

I’m considering carrying my food inside my pack and strapping the empty bear can to the bottom of my 24L pack for sierra trips.

The BEarikade Blazer carries 9 days of food. You’re going out for four. That’s a big space eater right there.

I hate to say this, but a Scout would be perfect and you’d love it. It’s much smaller and packs great. A weekender would be better as well. How’s your trust fund? Seriously, the Scout would open up a good amount of space.

edit: altho you’re probably stuffing clothes or such into the Blazer. Still, a canister isn’t efficient in terms of space, because it won’t compress.

David, I’ve hiked in the Sierra in July carrying a Kumo (36 liter) pack with four days of food in my Bareboxer Contender. I had a Deschutes tarp, MLD big bivy, Toaks 550 pot with TD cone, rain jacket, 20° quilt, NeoAir women’s pad, 10 ounce FAK, InReach, bugnet, down puffy, windshirt, probably some fleece gloves, spare hiking socks, etc. I was not uncomfortable in any way or shivering at night.

The pack was tight and I woudn’t have minded a couple extra liters of capacity to make it easier to load up.

@moondog55 – great point on body size.  I heard an anecdote of a guide w/ a client carrying a huge pack.  The guide was wondering what could possibly be in the client’s pack, so half way through the trip, he went through it and realized it was really just because the client was a big dude so everything else (clothes/bag/shelter) had to be big.

David – put your sleeping bag in a compression sack.  That’s the only real stand out I see in your pack list, especially if your shelter is a poncho and bivy.

I would not recommend putting clothes in a food storage container.  They will smell like food, no matter what you do.

But you might as well put your cook set in the bear can, along w/ anything else you put in it at night (scented personal care items) that you don’t need ready access to on the trail.

+1 to a smaller bear can for shorter trips.  This one is $70.  10cm Imusa mugs cost <$10, and weigh less than Ti. I really don’t get the fascination w/ expensive, heavy, Ti cook ware.  The 10cm size is enough for freeze dried meals, which is all I do.  Not sure how you’d fare with other cooking methods; there’s also a 12cm size.

Also, put the 1/8″ CCF pad on the outside of the pack, if you aren’t already.  It weights nothing, so it doesn’t matter where you attach it.  You might also consider keeping the poncho on the outside – easier access if the weather turns; if it’s wet in the morning, won’t get other items wet.  Just be mindful of abrasion, especially if you find yourself bushwhacking.

Another strategy is to use harness pouches, but that’s not actually reducing volume, just re-arranging it.

It definitely is heavy.  I’ve been cutting it down steadily but it’s a matter of having excess disposable income.  I fully own that occasionally some of the things I bring are for bushcraft practice.  For example, this trip I brought a folding saw (1 lb).  I’m glad I did because a few trees had fallen and completely blocked the path and going around would be hazardous.  Luckily I was able to perform some public service!

I also realized I can really dial in my food better and actually cut my kitchen set down an entire pound!  The bivy I had also didn’t perform as I needed so I’m trading it out for one 10 oz lighter.

It is a bit of overkill for 3-4 days out.  However with limited funds I had to choose one can that would work for me alone for 8-10 days, myself and my fiance for up to 5 days, or myself and a couple friends for a long weekend.  And it was only a few ounces more over the Weekender.  It luckily fits perfectly when horizontal at the bottom of my pack and even though it’s bulky, I pack it full with my kitchen kit, toiletries kit (except for the bathroom supplies), and any designated camp items that I won’t need during the day so there is no dead air space.  Eventually I’ll have a smaller one as well, but that’s when funds come.  Until then it’s taking the most versatile piece and doing the best I can with it.  *Shrug*

@Moondog has a great point on body size.  However I’m 5’10 and 170lbs so I have no excuse.  I used to put my sleeping bag in a compression sack but found it awkward to pack so now I put it in a trash bag and just compress it around everything else.  Clothes do stay out of the bear can, although designated camp items go in until it is packed as solid as possible.  As for the Bear Vault, it’s a good option, but not allowed in the Adirondacks.  The bears out here know how to open them and so they aren’t permitted any more.  Bear bags also are not permitted as the bears have figured out how to get them in essentially any situation.  Even for well hung ones, the mother bears will send the cubs out on the branch to chew through the cord (unless using spectra line of course).

I have however realized that I can cut my personal cook set down by 1 lb and to half the volume.  That will be first.  Then I’ll redo my group cookset (MSR Whisperlite).

Great advice.  I’ll definitely look at the Contender for shorter weekend solo trips

So it seems that due to a bum knee I will absolutely have to move towards UL status.  Hiking downhill this weekend was brutal, although trekking poles helped.  It also seems that to go that route requires some serious disposable income so it will be a gradual process.  Thank you all for your advice!

There are a number of resources on-line with good suggestions for going UL on the cheap.  I don’t have any handy, but if you search, you’ll find some.

Maybe I missed it but are you loading the pack vertically or horizontally, or both

a couple of thoughts in no particular order:

Going UL is largely about leaving stuff at home.

I’m probably paraphrasing poorly but grams add up and become ounces and then ounces become pounds. Personal anecdote: I hiked the John Muir Trail with my kid a few years back and both of our packs ended up heavier than we wanted when we did the final loadout. I panicked and brought a kitchen scale with us to California and we spent that last night in Lone Pine and went through every tiny item in our pack. We took dozens of tiny things and redundancies our of our packs using the scale as a guide and in the end we saved over 3.5 pounds from our packs. Three weeks later we looked at how much stuff we never touched once on that trip (despite cold and rain and really strong wind and so much hail) and realized we could have saved several more pounds just be leaving stuff back in the car.

Finally, get this book: 

I realize now that the original question related to bulk not weight. Sorry for the detail however the two are intrinsically related in most situations with some notable exceptions (DCF being one of those).

I load it vertically.  I have a single compartment bag with a full length zipper on one side.  So I can really finely tune my loading

It’s a great book!  I’ve actually read it and used it to pare pawn my pack significantly.  I also went through and pulled out everything I didn’t use.  A lightweight thermal layer, my second sleep shirt (both together maybe 12 oz).  I could have probably brought 2 lb less food but I’m glad I had extra calories as it was cold and wet the whole time.

I unfortunately think that I’m rapidly getting to the point where I just have to get items that are lighter and pack down smaller as the items I bring are pretty pared down.

I’ve tried various combos and seem to end up loading horizontally for best results.  YMMV