Climate change, depression and having fun before it all goes south

[Tipi Walter]

Everybody mentions putting this thread in Chaff but the word means trash or worthless things—which I find mind boggling since we as outdoorsmen/women and backpackers utterly rely on what’s left of our unspoiled lands to use for our pursuits.

These lands are being threatened from a wide variety of issues from sprawl to overpopulation to human noise pollution to mountaintop removal to air pollution—it’s human domestication of the continent—and so these conversations are just the opposite of Chaff, or should be, if we are concerned about what’s left of our public lands, most especially in the Appalachian Mts where I do all of my hiking.

 

[Edward John M]

I have 3 kids and TBH the thought of leaving before I am ready scares me, but if that is what needs to be done so my kids kids can have a life the and that is what needs to happen then so be it.

The third child was an accident and I’m not the father but s**t happens and ultimately I am responsible for the well being of my descendants.

[AK Granola]

Good points all, Tipi. But it’s not really “general lightweight” either. Maybe we need a section on the state of the outdoors, environmental concerns, etc.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Chaff you say? CHAFF?? REALLY?!

Folks, I taught Environmental Studies for 25 years in high school in Erie, Pennsylvania. What I taught in the ’80s about climate change was that the “bad stuff” should happen in 2050.

Instead it is happening NOW.

Chaff? Nooo… this climate change stuff is literally the beginning of the end of our comfortable “lifestyle”. And now you want to relegate this topic to CHAFF?

The kids may be right. If you’re over 50 you maybe should not have the right to vote on anything environmental because you won’t be around to see the worst of THE GREAT CHANGE(S).

So what to worry about most?

->Melting permafrost releasing huge quantities of methane (far worse than CO2 for greenhouse effect)

->Acidification of the oceans which are absorbing CO2 at a rate that has made them start to become acidic. That means zooplankton and phytoplankton die off. And when phytoplankton die off the greatest oxygen producing mass on earth dies. (I know, I know if the oceans go we’re fried.)

->Warming of the oceans (It will take a L  O  N  G time for the oceans to cool down under non-meteorite impact conditions.)

So now I sing the Hee Haw song,  “Gloom despair and agony on me. Deep dark depression, Excessive misery. If it weren’t for bad luck I’d have no luck at all. Gloom, despair and agony on me.”

So I ask, where is BPL’s Environmental Forum? It could be a place for information on environmental groups, environmental news, good and bad and BPLers’ own actions to save the planet.

 

 

 

[Roger Caffin]

where is BPL’s Environmental Forum?
Chuckle
You could try the Carbon Flame War thread :)

Cheers

[Steofan M]

Just christening with my new toy yesterday; the Beaujolais Nouveau was delicious as always.

What are you folks all depressed over? We’re in a white-out today, not the usual Horse-Turd Blizzard stuff but 6″ of REAL SNOW!!! Will be out on the snowshoes today for the first time since 2014, having fun before it all goes south. I am out of wine though.

 

 

 

[Ken Thompson]

Yep. Pretty much like every Chaff thread. People get mad. Nothing gets accomplished.

[Tipi Walter]

Who’s getting mad??  Just pointing out the inevitable destruction of the once-wild backcountry with human sprawl and development and pollution and overpopulation and overhead jet traffic noise and all the rest.

Backpacking is all about the Backcountry.

Think of the billions of people on the planet who have NO NATURE to go to—to backpack into and sleep in a tent for 3 weeks.  Their “backcountry” has been choked to death with development and overpopulation. They have become zoo animals.  And the North American continent is striving to achieve the same situation.

There was a time when a person could hike along the unspoiled Potomac River by where the Pentagon now stands and set up camps along its banks.  Now look what we’ve done to it.  And so goes America the beautiful.

This should concern all backpackers and outdoorsmen and John Muir wannabes.

My sentiment?  It’s reflected by a quote from David Brower—

“Without wilderness, the world’s a cage.”

[Kattt]

This belongs in a religion forum where the new high priests can lead us into salvation.

Chaff, please. This adds nothing at all to a backpacking discussion.

Either that or a mental health forum.

[Ken Thompson]

Thanks Roger.

Carbon Flame War where global warming has been explained 100 different ways,

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/12706/

[Tom K]

“->Melting permafrost releasing huge quantities of methane (far worse than CO2 for greenhouse effect)

->Acidification of the oceans which are absorbing CO2 at a rate that has made them start to become acidic. That means zooplankton and phytoplankton die off. And when phytoplankton die off the greatest oxygen producing mass on earth dies. (I know, I know if the oceans go we’re fried.)”

The seldom mentioned 500 pound gorillas in the room.  Thank you,Eric.  I now officially nominate you for the long vacant position of BPL High Priest of Neo Environmentalism.  Sorry, Tallbloke.  ;0))

[Kattt]

Every thread in chaff is just as  relevant here as this one because everything is related. So politics, religion, wars, Trump, abortion, guns are just as relevant but people don’t want it shoved down their throats just because someone thinks they should.

Hence chaff.

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Appellation trail leave no trace haha….climate change won’t help this!

[Eric Blumensaadt]

Dan Y,   Eeeeewwwww! BAD potty habits! They didn’t know their mom doesn’t work there.

Saw this in Utah where Buckskin Gulch meets the Paris River. Stinks like mad.

[W I S N E R !]

I think this discussion should be front and center, not hidden away in Chaff.  And Ken and Kat, I believe it does far more to rile people up to tell them what conversations can and can’t be had here (as opposed to in Chaff) than simply letting people alone to have a conversation.  Anyone that clicks this thread will quickly understand the nature of the conversation and can choose to read on and participate accordingly or not.

Furthermore, I think it’s quite unfortunate that a place like BPL, built upon the idea of a supposed “community”, treats such important issues as entirely personal and disconnected- and therefor invisible.  I’m not even talking about advocating a particular position, the signal I get here is that there’s no room for conversation, regardless of the position, unless it’s hidden away from polite society and swept under the rug in Chaff.  Instead the message seems to be to just carry on consuming gear and writing trip reports about wonderful places as if there is no context or consequence to our consumption and no politics behind our public land management.  We celebrate gear and trips as a community.  The rest we are left to ourselves to figure out.

If some people are incapable of discussing these topics without getting belligerent, don’t shut down conversation on important topics, shut down those people.

[Matthew / BPL]

I don’t think Roger is putting it in Chaff. While an argument could be made to put it in Chaff (or Philosophy) I’m not inclined to do so. I’m guessing Ryan won’t move it so I think it’s “safe” here.

Carry on!
—————————
I don’t think Roger is putting it in Chaff.
Not me mate!

Cheers
Roger

[Kattt]

So if a couple people feel like that religion should be front and center, as it absolutely deals with important issues that all ought to hear, then it’s fine to have it here. I mean how does morality and death and good and evil and how people ought to relate to one another not belong everywhere, right? Ok then. Anything belongs here. I am not religious but please feel free to post here.

[Kattt]

Same with matters of war and peace and our foreign policy. Threat of nuclear war. It’s really important and should be discussed here not relegated to chaff. Voting and elections are crucial so best discussed here. Mental health and suicide too. Addiction is ravaging our country and should matter to everyone too. The ugliness of misanthropy deserves to be discussed out in the open too.

[Tipi Walter]

WISNER is my new best friend; or at least I agree with your post.

” . . . as if there is no context or consequence to our consumption and no politics behind our public land management.”

In some ways Kat is right—The destruction of the landscape thru human impact and sprawl—the actions thereof—are a religion for sure— or more like a Cult . . . it’s the cultural vision–cult— to slowly turn the American landscape into a parking lot.

Shouldn’t backpackers of all people speak out against such sprawl?  Or at least delineate such negative impacts on the land?  I think backpackers of all people should care, because what unspoiled land is left from development is all we have and is slowly getting chewed up by a sort of War on Nature.  (Disappearance of frogs and turtles due to loss of habitat etc etc etc).

As mentioned, Doug Peacock calls it The Domestication of the World.

But Kat is all over the map attempting to address this topic of negative human impacts on the land.  Left field subjects are mentioned like religion, morality, death, good, evil, nuclear war, peace, voting and elections. There’s an attempt to spew out these subjects to confuse the thread or dilute it.  How the heck do these topics fit into Wisner’s idea of discussing the consequences to our consumption issues and the politics behind our public (and private) land management?

[Kattt]

What about how people raise their kids? Parenting as far as what is taught eg consumerism, environmental impact etc. How about how many children people have or should have? How about environmental injustice ? I can go on . All relevant here so let’s have it all. Capitalism and socialism too. It’s fine by me but what isn’t is the hypocrisy of what makes the cut and what does not.

[Kattt]

Just confirms that pessimists and misanthropes  are the new high priests. It’s disturbing.

[Tipi Walter]

I guess you could call John Muir a pessimist and misanthrope for trying to preserve Yosemite and stop the dam in Hetch Hetchy valley.

I guess you could criticize the pessimists who created The Wilderness Act of 1964.

If not for these visionaries we would not have the Big Frog or the Cohutta or the Joyce Kilmer/Slickrock or the Citico Creek wilderness areas in TN/NC—my stomping grounds.

People here on this forum would probably favor seeing these areas opened up to trailer courts or gated communities for the rich.

[Kattt]

No, he actually did things instead of just publicly lamenting about it. There is a difference.

[Anthony A]

I second W I S N E R !’s position. This topic should be foremost to the people who supposedly cherish the environment. If you don’t approve of the subject matter, then don’t read and respond. If you disagree with the premise, then join the conversation, but there is no need for derision. Perhaps the most appropriate thing would be to create a separate forum for these discussions, but it should not be relegated to chaff…

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Kat wrote:

No, he actually did things instead of just publicly lamenting about it. There is a difference.

What is Kat going to do about all these things………lament?????

[Author]

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