Most efficient windscreen for remote canister stove

[Chris L]

I do longer trips in the shoulder seasons where my wife and I boil quite a bit of water (~4-5L/day total). I’ve been using an MSR Reactor for years – I’ve run some numbers and the heavier stove pays off in fuel efficiency for a 2 week trip.

I’ve been curious if I can come up with a lighter stove system that approaches the fuel efficiency of the Reactor. I bought a cheap Fire Maple remote canister stove (3.5oz) that I can use with a 1.1L Toaks Ti pot. This system is ~9oz lighter than the Reactor. To get maximum efficiency, I’d like to pair it with a windscreen – the main reason I got a remote canister stove.

I could use a simple Toaks Ti screen or similar, but I’m wondering if there’s something better? Would a Sidewinder Ti-Tri work or would it block too much of the intake air?

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

Full disclosure here, I design and manufacture windscreens for remote canister stoves.

Will you be able to match the efficiency of a MSR WindMaster? Maybe.  First of all, using an HX pot will be required.  An HX pot can give you a 20-30% increase in fuel efficiency.  MSR Windburners can boil 2 cups of water using ~5 grams of fuel.  An non-HX pot your looking at 6 g best case.  It is important to optimize the burner to bottom of the pot distance.  This can be difficult because of the offset between the bottom of the HX structure and the bottom of the pot, there can be a 0.5” to 1” offset.

Is there an ideal windscreen?  Sure, one that encloses the stove/pot and provides adequate air flow.  TD cones can work fine especially if you invert the cone.  A foldable windscreen will also work fine.  The question is, can you find a windscreen that is packable and is easy to store?So, can you kit a system that is near equivalent to an MSR WindBurner ( but lighter)? Yes, if you configure it correctly.  My 2 cents.

[Roger Caffin]

I use a simple Trail Designs windshield wrapper 3/4 of the way around the stove.

The problem with such windscreens is how to carry them. My solution is to wrap the windshield around a 1.25 L rocket-base bottle (~34 g) which I use as my water bottle, and to store the lot in a very light non-WP stuff sack. All very light and reliable.

Cheers

[Bonzo]

I played with some very thin titanium sheet and made a roll-up windscreen that’s rather nice.  I sized it to fit a specific stove and cookware combo; it’s taller than the stove when unfurled, and by a good margin, so I roll it up tightly and throw it in a small fabric bag inside the pot, where it lays sideways.  I did some rough calculations to make sure that enough combustion air was available, and then realized that I didn’t know enough about combustion to be doing those calculations…so I made the windscreen slightly adjustable, which works well and has smothered neither me nor the stove.  Couple of (bad) photos are attached.

Pictured: Happy little windscreen…

Pictured: With 1.3L pot buddy… because everyone needs a friend.

Pictured: Mind the gap.

[Roger Caffin]

That looks fine to me. The gap around the pot looks fine. The only thing I would watch out for is the possibility that the legs might sink into the dirt so the gaps are seriously reduced.
Doubling the height of the gaps would do no harm to the screening ability of the windshield.

Cheers

[Bonzo]

Roger, if I had it to do over again, I would do exactly as you suggest.  I’ve not had any issues with sinking, but in any substrate that’s not reasonably compacted and hard, there could be issues.  I would also consider sinking the legs intentionally and drilling a row of air intake holes around the lower circumference.  I’m happy with it as-is, though…and since I’m moving more and more towards locking my stove into a base plate under any and all circumstances, the sinking issue doesn’t bother me.  But it’s a solid flaw in the design, and you’re right to point it out. 👍

[Roger Caffin]

I take a more easy way out: I wrap the windscreen only 3/4 of the way around. The gap goes downwind of course. That way, it does not matter how much the windscreen sinks into the dirt, the grass – or the snow.

Ah yes: I find a neat trick is to have 2 – 3 micro-stakes to hold the windshield down when it is a bit windy.  You can see one of them with a yellow top at the front corner. The yellow is, imho, essential: bare Ti wire just vanishes in long dead grass! Curiously enough, the Ti micro-stakes even work in the snow once it has been packed down a bit.

Cheers

[Chris L]

Thanks everyone. Sounds like I should experiment with a foil style windscreen and think about a HX pot. The Trail Designs ti-tri or caldera cone might be an expensive experiment.

[Roger Caffin]

Hi Chris

There is of course a highly-recommended super-cheap alternative. Visit a supermarket or a hardware store and buy the largest aluminium foil baking dish you can find. Only a few dollars. Cut out the base (ordinary scissors) , smooth out the creases, and voila: a UL windshield in the TD mode. I tape the edges with special tape to prevent tearing, but if you never fold or crease the stuff the material should last many years.

I did run some careful and comprehensive tests on an HX pot, as detailed in
https://backpackinglight.com/heat-exchanger-pot-test-hx-haa-caffin/
I found that the gains in efficiency were generally not good enough to justify the extra weight. YMMV of course. So I use a simple Ti pot, cooking for two.

Cheers

[DAN-Y]

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/modified-kovea-syder-for-confined-pot-supports/

[Bonzo]

I take a more easy way out: I wrap the windscreen only 3/4 of the way around. The gap goes downwind of course. That way, it does not matter how much the windscreen sinks into the dirt, the grass – or the snow.

Had I better design skills, I would have done exactly that: just left a section open.  But, the titanium sheet was so incredibly springy that I just rolled it into a cylinder and went with it; when I build another one in the future, I’ll definitely be thinking more along the lines of what you suggest.  I did incorporate some stake holes in the pattern in case I needed to keep it secured to the ground/snow, however; those have worked well.

[Roger Caffin]

the titanium sheet was so incredibly springy
Isn’t it!
In fact, I found it so much more difficult to manage that I went with the softer aluminium despite its more limited life. The Al foil is thicker than the Ti foil, so it works out a little heavier. Managable.

Cheers

[Rex Sanders]

A design like this could be adapted to a remote canister stove:

Easy to make, easy to use, no sinking if a big enough bottom tab included. Details here:

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/yet-another-diy-stove-windscreen/

Or creative use of a Trail Designs Sidewinder cone, maybe like this:

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/td-sidewinder-as-canister-stove-upper-windshield/

“Most efficient” is hard to measure, especially when you add wind. Check with anyone who has tried. And 25 mph (40 km/h) “official” windspeed is very different on the ground versus on a picnic table. Or a bare ridge-top versus a forested valley floor. BTDT.

— Rex

PS – In 2020 I asked TD about making cones for remote canister stoves, specifically the Fire Maple and WindPro. My paraphrase of a much longer answer: Never.

[bradmacmt]

My Solution:

MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe

Snow Peak Ti Bowl Windscreen (1-3/8″ tall)

Sterno Inferno Heat Exchange Pot (Slots cut to lower it to the same distance off burner as Jetboil)

Dutchware Lid

The entire kit weigh’s the same as my Jetboil Ti.

I get 5g of fuel usage when I runt it at med/low (16oz’s of 53*F H2O / 5,010′ Elev / 70*F ambient air temp). Boil time 3:00 min. I can get a sub 2:00 min boil time, but burn 7g fuel.

[Ken Larson]

OcelotWindscreen, PocketRocket Deluxe

COOK KIT SYSTEM – EVERNEW 750ml/3cups(3.35oz), Ocelot Wind Screen(1.1oz),Burner Plate( 0.4oz),Felt Hat (.1oz), 2cups(1.35oz),Bag (.15oz) – (6.45oz)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rf8dN1gR_60&t=3s

This system with a burn rate of <50% (I turn the “dial” down in the 1/4 to 1/3 range,  as speed is not important to me.) produced a 5g / 2cup water boil on the 10day packrafting trip on Isle Royal National Park.

[bradmacmt]

That’s interesting Ken. I can get a 4g burn too, but was trying to get no more than a 3min boil.

[bradmacmt]

COOK KIT SYSTEM – EVERNEW 750ml/3cups(3.35oz), Ocelot Wind Screen(1.1oz),Burner Plate( 0.4oz),Felt Hat (.1oz), 2cups(1.35oz),Bag (.15oz) – (6.45oz)

Ken your “system” leaves out the stove weight I noticed. Add it (2.9 oz) you’re at 9.35 oz.

[Ken Larson]

Brad……Correct. I forgot to add the stove in the cook Kit System numbers as the stove in this trip was in the breakfast food bag. Also,  the burn rate was 4.8g and I rounded it up to 5g as was posted 4g in the orginal posting.

The key to get low fuel use numbers in any system is to turn the burn “dial”  down.

[Bonzo]

I’ve been thinking about this comment…

Sounds like I should experiment with a foil style windscreen and think about a HX pot.

…and I think that’s dead on the money.  You need to experiment; there’s very little way to predict what’s going to happen with your stove in your conditions.  Definitely check out the baking aisle for cheap materials, and also the home improvement store; aluminum flashing is inexpensive, especially if you find it in the return/discount area.  In retrospect, I should have fine-tuned my design a bit more before using my titanium to make a finished product…so, yeah, experimenting is good.

Also, in case you’re interested: eBay can be a good source for decent titanium, if you go that direction.  I got a few 72″/2m strips that were perfect for my uses, and they didn’t cost much.

One other thought: give some thought to your stove base before you start working on a windscreen.  I’m kind of working backwards, now, because…well, because I worked at it a bit backwards. 🤣

[bradmacmt]

the burn rate was 4.8g and I rounded it up to 5g as was posted 4g in the orginal posting.

Ahh – that makes sense!

My “5g” burn rate I referenced was also 4.8g, and I rounded it up to 5g. Also, I’d guess Isle Royal averages under 500′ elevation vs. my home elevation of just over 5,000′ (longer boil time / more fuel). All in all, I do think a heat exchange pot is more efficient, but most are not light. My Sterno Inferno pot with Dutchware lid is 4.7 oz’s. But I do believe its efficiency offsets it’s extra 1.5 oz weight over my lighter 750 ml Evernew Ti pot.

I DO have more tests to run with the Sterno Inferno vs. the Evernew pot (mine is from the Solo kit). I got a anemometer recently and will play with both pots in controlled tests with wind. I’ll be interested to see if the Inferno HE pot dominates with wind. I suspect its base design in conjunction with the 1oz MYOG Snowpeak windscreen will prove more effective, but will obviously only know by actual testing.

Something to do when the sun is not shining…

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

At 5000 feet your boiling point drops to 202F so you would be using less fuel than at sea level.  My 2 cents.

[bradmacmt]

Jon, you’re exactly correct. Got it turned around in my head.

[DAN-Y]

The most efficient, 2 grams fuel to heat 2 cups:

Windscreen also exchanges heat as heat travels up sides of pot.

 

The windscreen can easily be made to be used with a remote feed setup.

[bradmacmt]

Dan, does the windscreen touch the pot here? Assume the flame/heat finds another upward channel?

[DAN-Y]

Yes, alot of heat exchange going on there.

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