Gear Swap & Capilene

You BPL members and Lifers with this "pay up or shut up" attitude understand that your money has been spent right ? Your membership dues likely didn't go into an annuity to pay for future expenses. The future of this site depends on new people coming to the site and staying around long enough to see the value in signing up as a paying member. You "telling" us that there is value hardly comes across as an effective marketing strategy. People need to see value with their own eyes and around here that only happens by spending time on the site. This change gives newbies one big reason to spend LESS time here and absolutely is one big new negative to membership. As a member I now get potentially half as many offerings in the gear swap ? Wow. Where do I sign up . . .

"bold statement when the economy is in the in $hitter… i worked 8 hours… last WEEK."

Have you considered doin what your ancestors did? They moved to where the work was.

So Chase you want a small elite community with a certain attitude?

Would you be the leader of that community? If so I'd be very afraid. ;)

Chase Norton is all his wisdom

Yep, just that easy to pick up and leave.

back to lurking the gear swap. I came here for that, thought there would be more, there isn't.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?69-Selling-Used-Gear

http://mountainproject.com/v/for-sale–wanted/103989416

2 very active and free gear swap forums if anyone is interested. Whiteblaze is THE place to go for Appalachian trail and other long trail info and discussion.

"bold statement when the economy is in the in $hitter… i worked 8 hours… last WEEK. to be able to do anything I want to do I cut out anything extra that is unnecessary. a few articles and being able to post in one folder.. not a big incentive. "

Jake. First let me say thatmy mlife membership was gifted to me by a very generous "anonymous" donor fairly recently. I have been on BPL for three years now and became a member with a yearly subscription within a week of being on the forum.
I am not saying that only members should have a say, nor do I necessarily agree with the new policy. To be honest I have not given it that much thought , and I have not participated in the discussions on the lifers only forum.
I am quite aware of the economy, and all too familiar with having to make do, and I will leave it at that.
Maybe if more guests bought a membership, this would not have been necessary. I am really just guessing here, but if most pitched in what seems like a fair price, then maybe no one would have had to make a new rule. I still think the yearly membership is a small amount to contribute for what we get at BPL, even if you feel it is the members and guests that give the most , as far as resources and information. When I paid my fee, I saw it as giving it to support the community and keep this going, not so much as giving Ryan my money.
I think it is perfectly legitimate for all to discuss this and raise questions and complaints, and I did just that, voice my opinion that a membership fee is worth it.

"back to lurking the gear swap. I came here for that, thought there would be more, there isn't.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?69-Selling-Used-Gear

http://mountainproject.com/v/for-sale–wanted/103989416

2 very active and free gear swap forums if anyone is interested. Whiteblaze is THE place to go for Appalachian trail and other long trail info and discussion."

They do have free gear swap forums, but the knowledge base on those sites is miniscule compared to here. Which is why I come here and to a certain degree why I donated $25 to BPL. I hope we can all drop the "member vs non-member" stuff that always pops up in these types of threads. It doesn't do anyone any good and just creates hard feelings.

Ryan

"Yep, just that easy to pick up and leave."

Versus not bringing in enough income to survive? Don't claim to be desperate when you obviously aren't.

Regarding what BPL has to offer, by becoming a member there are enough articles to read to take up about a month of constant ready. Vast amounts of gold here, folks.

There's nothing elite about being an ultralight backpacker and spending $25 on a membership. If you really think that, congratulations, you're a good consumer, please proceed to the checkout line to buy your corporate gold sticker.

Do you think the servers here run on good will and dry farts?

$25 to support the cause is cheap. Don't be cheap.

"$25 to support the cause is cheap. Don't be cheap."

How's that marketing campaign working so far ?

Apparently not so well . . .

An infinitely better solution would be to have as a policy in the gear swap :

"Welcome to the Gear Swap. Unlimited posting in this section is a benefit of membership. Guests will be allowed a maximum of five (5) "gear for sale" postings before being required to become a member . . .

A possible addition to the above (or as an alternative to . . ) why not have another level of membership called a "buy & sell" member. Maybe charge $10-12 dollars for this level and all they get over and above what a guest receives is the ability to sell gear.

Might these suggestions cost some money in software upgrades ? Absolutely, but in the long run it would be pennies compared to any policy which will scare people away . . .

Todd –

The enlightenment of reasonable thinking appears. You may well have hit upon the ideal solution.

The question that only RJ can answer – which would require fewer resources to administer.

Todd – there is only one solution for you given that all you want to do is sell gear.

Start your own website.

"An infinitely better solution would be to have as a policy in the gear swap :

"Welcome to the Gear Swap. Unlimited posting in this section is a benefit of membership. Guests will be allowed a maximum of five (5) "gear for sale" postings before being required to become a member . . .

A possible addition to the above (or as an alternative to . . ) why not have another level of membership called a "buy & sell" member. Maybe charge $10-12 dollars for this level and all they get over and above what a guest receives is the ability to sell gear.

Might these suggestions cost some money in software upgrades ? Absolutely, but in the long run it would be pennies compared to any policy which will scare people away . . ."

well you have been here about a year and haven't joined, so I guess you weren't joining up in a hurry as it was.

Someone suggested limiting gear swap to paying members and it got a lot of support. So for the most part from what I saw, the biggest $$ contributors were for it…and for others…well there is a saying about beggars…

Being able to save in lightly used cottage gear would seem to have some appeal as membership bait.

Being able to sell on a forum where people will post that "the same" thing is available online for much less, not great bait.

"well you have been here about a year and haven't joined, so I guess you weren't joining up in a hurry as it was."

There isn't really a hurry if you don't see value.

My story ? I've been here about 11 months. I came here for the "gear deals" section. This place seemed to have the most eyes on the look out for deals, so I check in here a few times a day to look for the latest offerings. The "Gear Swap" section hasn't ever been a big draw for me. I've only offered one item for sale I believe and I've only bought one item from the swap over that time frame so charging or not charging doesn't really effect me personally in that regard.

Over the year I've been here though I've slowly started to read more and more of the other forums here and am genuinely interested and concerned about the success of this site. I was literally a couple of weeks away from having my wife get me a lifetime membership as a Christmas present but this change seriously makes me question the business smarts of the site ownership. Why would I get a lifetime membership if they insist on making decisions that will only drive business away and make it harder for them to continue running the site in the future ?

I'm not buying a membership to read articles. I'm not buying a membership to be included in some exclusive club. I'm certainly not buying a membership to sell gear. The reason I'll buy a membership is because I want to see the site flourish and continue to attract new people to the site. Again to the haters in this thread YOU CAN'T TELL SOMEONE THE VALUE of this place. They need to see it for themselves and the only way they do that is by spending time here. Give them less of a reason to spend time here and you'll have less people joining up. Seems pretty clear to me.

I'll most likely still go for a one year membership but if this change is an example of how business decisions are made around here I seriously question whether this site will even still be here a few years from now. Traffic drives internet business. Mess with what was working for you and stifle or drive away traffic and you'll be gone. It's pretty simple.

/////Someone suggested limiting gear swap to paying members and it got a lot of support. So for the most part from what I saw, the biggest $$ contributors were for it…and for others…well there is a saying about beggars…////

This part of the post is representive of some of the arrogence on this thread that members have. I don't understand where that arrogence comes from. Essentially you bought a magazine subscription and found value in that magazine subscription.

Even the idea that members or life members should have some say in how the site is run is quite interesting. As really you are just a customer in a buisness not a member in a comunity run group or co-op. Now the ownership can choose to engage its customers or it can choose to ignore them but that is entirely up to ownership. Being a member doesn't make you special or better. It just gives you different privaleges.

I also find it interesting from a buisness perspective that the Mlife customer is the most valued on here. From a profit stand point the Mlife member has the least value. They will never spend another penny on the site (donations aside). They are actually less valuable (from a profit stand point) then a non-member who posts on the forums who may be converted.

I think the biggest issue facing this site is is it a buisness or is it a community and I don't think it can be both. In a community driven site I could understand the member vs non-member fight. But really this a discussion between two types of customers one who is effectively being monitized (the member) and the other who isn't being monitized (non-member) beyond that there is no difference between a member and a non-member so I don't understand where the arrogence comes from

NOTE: THIS POST IS NOT DIRECTED AT THE MAJORITY OF MEMBERS WHO ARE VERY FRIENDLY AND MAKE NO DISCTINCTION IN THEIR ATTITUDE TOWARD MEMBERS AND NON-MEMBERS.

They have a huge right hand gutter here with giant blank spot. a few merchant ads or even a google frame would probably be more profitable in the long run and cause A LOT less uproar. After a while if you are a regular user you don't even notice gutter ads anymore but for .01 cents per page VIEW you will make money without even doing anything. users will "contribute" just by showing up and viewing the site as normal. It does not take people clicking on ads to generate revenue.

i emailed the webmaster at rockclimbing to see some numbers.. i'll report back

Aye yai yai…

The people in charge of BPL are probably out backpacking right now. I'd save the energy and do the same.

nm

"This part of the post is representive of some of the arrogence on this thread that members have. I don't understand where that arrogence comes from. Essentially you bought a magazine subscription and found value in that magazine subscription."

I don't see where you are getting the arrogance from, Greg. I thnk a lot of members are concerned that we're going to lose a wonderful resource AND, YES, community, because of financial difficulties. At that point is it too much to ask for non members who are also benefitting from same to contribute to its success? If that is arrogant, then I guess I and many others are guilty as charged. No doubt, many non members contribute valuable information in their posts, but so do members. We are all equal in that regard, as far as I'm concerned, but the difference is that members of all stripes are also contributing financially to the upkeep of the website. Think about it. Please.

I have followed a couple of great forums in the past that either came to demise, or existed as a shadow of their former self after undergoing changes.

Often a forum is started as a labor of love, it grows and gets popular because it fills a need for certain enthusiasts. Its cost for bandwith increases, it changes from a part-time hobby into a full time job for the host. Now it has to pay bills too in order to continue to exist. Additional employees may be hired, etc.

In come the annoying ads to support it, etc. Tiered memberships, where you PAY in order NOT to be bombarded with ads. Merchandise is sold. Once a critical level of interest is reached, the website may be sold to a company which professionally manages and runs them, and owns many. Runs it without the passion and enthusiasm and open formate that the founder had. Censorship starts, cant talk bad about advertisers or potential advertisers or their products. Next thing you know, the great contributors are gone elsewhere, the forum is filled only with unknowledgable newbies asking simple questions, with ads between every posting and on the sidebars.

Success, is actually the beginning of the end, in many cases.

I for one would hate to see that occur here.

"At that point is it too much to ask for non members who are also benefitting from same to contribute to its success?"

Not at all, but I kinda see what Greg is talking about. To some extent, in this thread there seems to be a bad attitude towards those who choose not to contribute monetarily (for whatever reason) with some suggesting they need to pay up or shut up. There's a difference between requesting and expecting contribution.

"To some extent, in this thread there seems to be a bad attitude towards those who choose not to contribute monetarily (for whatever reason) with some suggesting they need to pay up or shut up."

If you want to complain about how a forum is being run and you are not a member, then you should become a member. There are member benefits that you are not privy to. Want the benefits, then you should become a member.

There is no bad attitude.

As far as 'shutting up,' no one is saying that. But in this case the squeeking wheel is not going to get the grease.

I chuckle at the previous comment about using the forums for 11 months. Many of us have been members for 5 or more years (I believe BPL has been around for double that period of time) and if it were not for this continuing membership, the forums wouldn't exist today.

…and you would be selling gear on Ebay.

Since I didn't see this announced anywhere, there's a survey up on the home page. (Maybe it's been there for a while and I'm just slow on the draw.)

Good post and ditto here. This is exactly why I joined and I concur that the result with be less Gear Swap traffic and fewer potential new members.