Solo Wilderness Security

I researched pack guns and settled on a Glock 10mm as the only reasonably affordable gun at a reasonable weight with enough stopping power for Grizzlies. The 10mm is a handful. I also researched bear spray, and I am convinced that spray is a much more effective deterrent for bears. As for 2 legged threats, I feel the risk is much, much smaller then other back country hazards like hypothermia, dehydration, or the drive to and from the trail head. For perspective, I often hike with a buddy who is a FBI agent and he does not take a gun along. He says the risk is way too small to justify the weight and trouble. For that matter, the cheese burger I had today is way more dangerous for me than my reliance on bear spray in the back country.

Peter,
I've been backpacking in Colorado in the summers since the 1970s, and it was only in that decade, in the Weminuche wilderness near the Rincon, that I ran into a bunch of kids camped just above timber line shooting off firearms. As I climbed towards timber line, an occasional bullet zipped by. On reaching their camp site near the crest, I asked them why they were discharging firearms when they might kill somebody.
'Oh, we saw you coming," they replied. There was considerable liquor in evidence.

With the exception of that incident, I can't recall ever seeing firearms while backpacking in Colorado wilderness areas, unless worn by a ranger (usually not the case) or rifle sheathed on a horse ridden in an occasional horsepacking party.

So while I grant you firearms are more prevalent in the US generally, and that I do not hike after the hunting seasons begin in September, I nevertheless think you may be a little more apprehensive than you need to be. I've found the lightning storms to be a way bigger threat to safety.

Honestly, I'm just worried about running into marijuana fields or meth labs and the people involved in them. You hear about a lot of criminal things happening in the California woods. Maybe it's just hype, but I do plan on getting a handgun safety permit and learning how to use a pistol in defense specifically for backpacking.

"Honestly, I'm just worried about running into marijuana fields or meth labs and the people involved in them. You hear about a lot of criminal things happening in the California woods. Maybe it's just hype, but I do plan on getting a handgun safety permit and learning how to use a pistol in defense specifically for backpacking."
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Carrying concealed is a crime without a CCW- which very few people in CA can get.

Carrying open and loaded…How often do you see people packing pistols while hiking in CA? Now you'll be the one out in the woods that other hikers see and think is the pot farmer…

If you're still determined, good luck even figuring out the legalities of where you can carry a pistol open, loaded, and legal in CA.

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To my knowledge, I can carry a pistol into a national forest or blm land. There shouldn't be an issue with that. State Parks or National parks are a no go.

I guess you could get into trouble if there is a "hunting only" rule for firearm carry. In that case, I could carry a hunting license and use that as a justified use. Rabbits are in season all year long, for example. But that shouldn't be an issue in the first place. I have wanted to try out some short range hunting with a pistol anyways.

I'm not some kind of paranoid gun nut. I wouldn't carry a firearm everywhere, probably not even most of the time, just if I felt the area and situation warranted it. I'm not going to bring a pistol into a high alpine wilderness area, that would just be silly.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/mexican-crime-american-guns/story?id=11574583

Where do these people you are afraid of get their guns?

USA

Where do Canadian criminal gangs get their guns?

USA

The American gun problem is our problem too.

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Canada has criminals with guns… we also have strict gun laws.
There is much less gun crime here than in the US (normalized for population)

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2008002/article/10518-eng.htm

Well, they certainly don't want a gun store and buy them. Buying a firearm in a store requires citizenship and a quick background that filters out felons.

Maybe they get them from the gun show loophole. Private sale of firearms with no paperwork, just hand over the cash and buy, is legal in many states. Personally, I think this shouldn't be legal. The media is so focused on demonizing scary looking military style rifles that they ignore real issues like this.

I don't understand why you call it a "gun problem". I guess it's a problem if your country doesn't allow self defense with a firearm and only the criminals have them. If nobody in the world owned guns then criminals would be using knives and machetes. Why is that any better or worse? Firearms are great self defense tools that require a minimal amount of training compared to hand to hand weapons. Someone who is small or physically weak has a good chance at defending themselves against someone who would normally overpower them with brute force.

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Gun crime statistics are irrelevant. How somebody kills someone doesn't matter, they still killed them. You should be looking at the total homicide rate. Yes, the united states tops that list but we have more crime in general. We also have gangs, an open border, and drug cartels running loose. We also have a very unequal wealth distribution compared to other western countries which I'm sure leads to criminal activity.

I give up… this is an ultralight backpacking forum and this thread is discussing the right pistol to take into the back country.
I don't need self defence because no-one is attacking me… even if they were to attack me, 99.99 % chance they don't have a gun. (outside of the US)

This debate is un-winnable because many can't seem to imagine a world without constant confrontation and fear.

My $0.02

A Canadian

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You started the debate Peter.

It is an un-winnable debate because when presented will well documented evidence that goes against your world view… you declare it irrelevant.

I roll my eyes in your general direction.

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Looking forward to it… no hard feelings.

Yes, I think that firearm related homicide statistics are irrelevant. Overall homicide rates, regardless of the weapon used, are the important thing to look at. If firearm related homicides go down and homicides not related to firearms go up, what was accomplished?

I agree that this isn't the right place to get into a debate, there are other threads just for that.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=73735

Mr. Evans, despite extensive research on the topic by the public health community over the last fifty years, there is no demonstrated correlation between civilian ownership of firearms and homicide rates.

I suggested reading the National Academy of Sciences book on firearms and violence if you are interested in this topic.

The only link which is supportable by evidence is that availability of firearms is associated with a higher percentage of suicides by firearms (but not with suicide rates as a whole.) To give a concrete example: Japan has a suicide rate dramatically higher than the U.S, despite firearms being virtually unobtainable. In fact, the combined murder and suicide rate of Japan is much higher than the combined murder and suicide rate of the U.S.

You gave the example of Canada, Australia, and the U.K. in the graph you posted. In scientific jargon, that is known as cherry picking. One could give the counter-example of Iceland… which happens to be vastly safer than Canada, Australia, or the U.K., but has very high firearms ownership. Or on the opposite side of the spectrum, numerous countries with no civilian ownership of firearms, but very high homicide rates.

Crime is a complex socio-economic issue. Trying to pretend otherwise is probably a waste of everyone's valuable backpacking time.

"To my knowledge, I can carry a pistol into a national forest or blm land. There shouldn't be an issue with that. State Parks or National parks are a no go. " – Justin

Justin, please do NOT rely on "your knowledge". Rely on the law if you want to stay out of jail.

If you have any questions about gun laws in california, all your questions will be answered by a visit to http://www.calguns.net they have a very helpfull forum, but most of your questions can be answered with a search.

You can only carry a firearm without a permit if you are on your way to hunt or fish. And this IMO is a sticky exception to base your justification on.

A carry permit is not impossible to get in California however! There is hope! But, it depends on what county you live in. Permits are issued by your county Sheriff, and it is totally up to them. If you visit Calguns, you can find out if your county freely issues, like Fresno or Sacramento, or NEVER issues, like Santa Clara county.
Even so, there is still hope! There are currently several lawsuits against individual Sheriffs, Santa Clara county included. If these are won, then CA may be on its way to a shall issue state.

Just, please do your research.I don't want you to end up in jail for being ignorant.

"In the United States, smoking is responsible for about one in five deaths annually (i.e., about 443,000 deaths per year, and an estimated 49,000 of these smoking-related deaths are the result of secondhand smoke exposure)"
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/fast_facts/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate

Why all the talk about guns when there are so many easily actionable killer that could be addressed first.

And why all the talk about assault rifles?
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/01/03/fbi-hammers-clubs-kill-more-people-than-rifles-shotguns/
"In 2011, there were 323 murders committed with a rifle.