Solo Wilderness Security

Setting aside safety against strange people encountered in the backcountry or trailhead parking lot (whether scruffy or packing heat on a hip), I have a question/thought about encounters with bears and mountain lions.

A cursory search ("can bears see color?") yields this: bears do see in color, particularly well in blues + greens and have excellent, close range vision, but maybe not so much at longer distances. Here's three of the first sites that popped up:

http://www.bear.org/website/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=168&Itemid=38
http://www.americanbear.org/senses.htm
http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=136&issue_id=25

So, here's my question for the kind of encounters we mostly talk about, with an animal close to enough but not immediately attacking us: Wouldn't a good first step, when you see a bear or mountain lion on the trail, be to pull out a brightly-colored jacket (like those red and yellow and lime wind shirts we all have in an outside pocket anyway) and maybe hold it up and fill the space above your head? This would make you look larger and, well, something to avoid. Nature already has a way of indicating danger with bright colors. Next step would be to back away without running and finally, bear spray.

This makes sense to me. What do you think?

As for the "friend" above who is worried about a mountain lion attacking them in a tent at night, if that happened, I think no one would be able to find any gun quick enough, especially as the cat will go for the jugular fairly quickly. At least that's my understanding.

"I refuse to live in fear. I had a friend that always worried something would go wrong, and it always did. YMMV"

I understand your viewpoint Brian.

Since this thread has gone on for 7 pages, I figure I might as well throw my own 2 cents in like everyone else. ;-)

For me, carrying a gun is not about living in fear. I agree with those who think the odds of needing a firearm while hiking are slim to none. Yet I always carry one. Carrying firearms has become second nature to me after more than a decade of being in a line of work where I need one. In fact, grabbing the pistol before I head out the door takes no more thought than grabbing my car keys, wallet, and cell phone (actually, I sometimes forget the cell phone but never the handgun hahaha).

Because of an oath that I swore, I have a duty to act 24/7, 365 days per year. That means that if I ever come across someone who is being victimized, I don't get to leave, run away, or watch and call 911, etc. I have to act. With that responsibility, the thought of me ever needing a firearm to defend someone else's life and not having one is a scary thought. It would suck to know that I failed to save someone that I could have,simply because "I probably won't need it", or "that extra 1.5 lbs is too heavy".

Just my .02

Now as to the original question of safety while hiking, if it is something you are concerned about, OC spray (pepper spray) is often very effective on animals. I've used it countless times on vicious dogs (with varying degrees of success).

I have no axe against guns. I question though the premises in your introductory paragraph that set the background of your question. Unless you are in an inherently dangerous environment, you do not need to pack a gun. Bear spray apparently will stop a bear so it will probably stop a human. If the other human has planned things correctly though, as someone else mentioned, you are probably going to die anyway. I think what you are really getting at here is peace of mind in the backcountry. Google what actually kills people in the wilderness and you will find assaults by animals or humans to be very very low, almost a statiscal non-event. I'm not saying you are not entitled to peace of mind, but if the real risks we face in the wilderness do not call for a handgun, then carrying equipment that you are statiscally not going to use is, well, uh useless. Carry what you are really going to use. I suspect you know what can stop a human, what lightweight handgun can stop a charging bear? Bear spray is designed to do that. In the end, we have an endless supply of humans and a very limited supply of bears. I don't mind a few sprayed bears, but please at least in protected areas save your bullets for the occasional deranged human you probably won't encounter. Again, I'm not against packing, just save it for hunting season. Of course I say all of this as a very fit and strong man. If I were a petite woman, the peace of mind element can be a game changer.

I considered carrying a handgun when my wife went with me to Yosemite. I was responsible for protecting her after all. I decided that if I felt I should carry a gun to protect her then I shouldn't take her. Since it is perfectly safe in Yosemite I didn't take it. :)

[..]

"Since your area is safe, great, nothing to worry about. But Calif pot farming is Not by hippies, its serious mexican drug cartel enterprise."

Very true. Our neighboring allied agency got in a gunfight with Mexican national pot farmers just last week (fortunately the good guys won).

State and National Park rangers get in more officer involved shootings per officer than just about any other type of law enforcement agency. Wanted felons and fugitives like to camp in parks because they are less traceable than hotels or motels since they don't require ID for check in. I've personally responded to at least two (off the top of my head) shootings in progress at State Parks that friends of mine were involved in.

I'm not saying that backpacking is as dangerous as walking around town, but I agree with Roger's point that there are bad people in the world (I meet them daily) and trying to pretend they don't exist will not ensure your safety. Now let me clarify, among criminals, most are normally decent people who have poor judgement and descision making skills. Some on the other hand, are genuinly bad people.

In the county where I work, we have two sexual predators who have been stalking women on hiking trails in the state parks (currently). Neither have been apprehended yet. The bottom line is whether you choose to carry OC spray, a gun, or none of the above…please don't have the "it could never happen to me" attitude.

The above is just one more (big) reason to legalize it.

"As ye sow, so shall ye reap.
Not exactly a bible thumping man, but I must admit a fundamental truth even when i don't understand the mechanism behind it."

Pffff.

Never a truer statement when we're trying to judge people.

…but it quickly borders on the completely absurd when taken with the fact that really bad things still happen to perfectly good people or children.

__________________________________________________

Guns are here to stay, like it or not. We've got guns coming out our f@ckin ears in this country. Having an AR15 and 6000 rounds stockpiled = Freedom. Yay.
And before we start wagging a big Red White and Blue finger at Mexico, don't forget which country makes or sells the guns and ammo their cartels use and has an insatiable appetite for the drugs they produce.

"Very true. Our neighboring allied agency got in a gunfight with Mexican national pot farmers just last week (fortunately the good guys won)."

Would you happen to know if they've cleaned out the Mexican operation in the SW quadrant of Sequoia NP yet? Just SW of Mineral King?

I think the right mindset is to avoid hiking areas where you think you might need to carry a firearm, and carry anyways in areas where you think you don't think you need to carry.

I grew up in an area in the southeast US, in the middle of millions of acres of paper company timberland and National forest lands. I remember as far back as the 70s the police busting pot farms in the woods, staking them out until the operators came to visit and were apprehended. Many of the sites were booby-trapped even back then.

At one time they were simply farmed like any other crop, in openings and clearings. Then they started to scatter them amongst the trees so they would be harder to spot. If you have never flown low and slow over the woods, you would be amazed what you can see, that is how biologists count deer density in some areas. It is still a very effective way to spot illicit crops. In the SE there is no need for irrigation operations.

I have no problem with anyone carrying anything they want. Your most valueable weapon is the one between your ears, not the one in your hand.

"I dont see a pot farm until Im near it."

So how many have you seen? Where were they? Might be useful information to pass on.

The possibility that someone might "pass it on" is one thing that contributes to the risks created by mj grows in wild places.

From an NPR report in 2009:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103866520

And LNT isn't part of the growing progam. From a CBS article in 2010:

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-6255189.html

I said I'd never carry a handgun in the wilderness, until I ran into an unusual man with a large revolver strapped to his hip, in some deserted badlands where no one goes. He was weird in a scary way, talking disconnectedly. We spent a few uncomfortable minutes together until a violent squall gave me an opportunity to leave him behind, a lucky break I was grateful for.

The next couple of trips out, I didn't sleep too well thinking about that guy. The memory doesn't bother me when I'm hiking on trails with reasonable foot traffic – when people will be along every couple of hours. I feel okay taking my chances. But I decided to carry my own weapon when I'm really going to the middle of nowhere.

There's not much point dragging an automatic pistol through mud, so it pretty much has to be a revolver. And my aim is much truer with a double-action revolver. So, after sifting through the options, I gave up on ultralight and got a 3-pound revolver (heavier than my SMD Skyscape Trekker plus Exped UL Synmat 7). I now carry a classic .357 SA/DA with a four-inch barrel. It sits comfortably on my leg and out of the way of my pack straps.

All that said, it changes my hikes negatively. I think about danger and violence much more than I want to, which is the opposite of the point to getting out. I expect that when my scary experience fades a bit, I will go back to carrying nothing more dangerous than a lighter.

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Not sure if this has been mentioned, but using bear spray on a person is illegal in the state of CA and several other states, even in self defense. Pepper spray in excess of 2.5oz is prohibited – bear spray is only legal because it is registered as a pesticide.

I personally wouldn't care whether spraying bear spray on a person is legal or not if that's the only way that I had to defend myself. I would only hope that I wasn't the person that I sprayed :)

Its not lethal, and someone that threatened you enough to warrant being sprayed certainly isnt going to "turn you in" . If that was my best means of defense at the moment, I wouldnt hesitate either.

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Withdrawn….

…

Since my earlier sarcastic post, the issue haunted me a bit and became food for thought. This summer's solo trek was in a very mountainous Wilderness Area where the Forest Service has abandoned many trails, and much of it has become inaccessible.
Not surprisingly, only two other people were seen during a six day period.
Not a bad place for an enterprising criminal to set up shop.
On the other hand, there was a raid some years ago on a MJ patch just a short distance behind my home in the National Forest. Evidently, planes can spot the plants, and law enforcement watched the location until the growers made a visit.
And I've also observed strange folk hanging around suspicious vegetation while hiking on the borders of Wilderness Areas.

So apparently, it can happen anywhere, especially in locations well removed from public trails. Not to mention the movie, "Deliverance," and how it still affects people. Since I frequent remote areas, I suppose the question really is whether to be armed should I come across such folk.

My own personal decision is NOT. Based on past experience, including a mugging with a razor blade held to my neck in the city, survival intact is more likely when the other guy(s) don't feel threatened, even if they are hyped on heroin, as they were. This is contrary to episodes about crazed killers seen frequently on crime shows on TV, but TV is not reality. But others feel differently, and it is not unusual to see people armed here in the White Mountains, and commonplace to see firearms with horsepackers in the Rockies. I just accept it as part of the era that I live in. If the incidence of harm to backpackers were considerable, the decision might be different.

As far as justifiable homicide involving self defense is concerned, it should be noted that the shooter usually has the burden to present evidence. As shown by the recent widely publicized case in Florida, innocence or guilt is often very unclear no matter what the law is in the particular state.

BTW, came up with two more super shooters, The Ungine and the AUG, the latter of which packs down enough to conceal in the foam in a camera case. The Ungine came from William Diehl in "Chameleon," and the AUG from one of David Stone's novels. It is illegal, of course, to possess them in the USA. There was also a great little 'zip-strip' gun used on an assassin by Werner in one of Len Deighton's novels that would fit the bill for backpacking light.

So first off hi! I've been looking around here lately soaking in everything there is to learn.

I live in a part of the country that makes gun ownership and concealed carry very easy. Consider checking out the Springfeild XDS(45cal). I've been very happy with my service model XD9 and found it to be very reliable. I've had a chance to put about 200 rounds through the new XDS last week and loved every minute of it. Soon to pick one up I liked it so much! At 5+1 I look at it as a 6 shot revolver that is much more practical to reload. You can take 11 rounds of 45 ACP with you with only two of the small mags. Reloads take only seconds from a well though out concealed mag holster. I will soon be switching my hiking gun to this this as soon as I get my own and get some more familiarity with it.

Again, thank you everyone for providing such a large wealth of knowledge. I hope to contribute towards it in the future with my constant tinkering.

Pepper spray in excess of 2.5oz is prohibited – bear spray is only legal because it is registered as a pesticide.

It took me a while to figure that out when ordering pepper spray online. The sites I tried merely said they could not ship a particular item to California.

The only place I would ever consider carrying a gun is in the high arctic (polar bears).

Canadian here, not dumping on USA, but… I don't want to travel in a country where so many people carry guns.
Honestly I think it's crazy. Yes, there are occasional gun incidents in some of the bigger cities (guns brought from the US).
But the amount of people getting shot in Canada is pretty low, and we have a pretty safe society.

I doubt I am the only person reluctant to go to the US because of the gun culture.

//EDIT: I'd like to clarify that my concern is not just for getting shot… guns can be used to intimidate and coerce.