Are you “packing” while you are packing?

Can we all just stop trying to explain why guns are or are not a good idea for other people ?!? If it's legal, it's nobody's business whether anyone brings a gun (or whatever other gear piece) along — or not.

"Can we all just stop trying to explain why guns are or are not a good idea for other people ?!?"

Ah, Ben, what you are witnessing here is a Clash of Titans, a fight to the death between the 1st and 2nd Amendments. After how many threads now, and it's still a draw? Why not just crack a beer, open a bag of chips, then kick back and watch the show? The Thrillah in Manilah redux. ;)

does bear spray work on those cute critters that everyone loves to hug … namely the great white bear that is ever hungry and devours all moving things in his vast domain?

i think a BPL test is needed with live volunteers and bears for figuring out the best polar bear deterrence …but then again if yr going to the land of the cute fuzzy white bears there you probably arent all that lightweight anyways ;)

"There's lots of places where people should never be in Canada as a whole without a firearm. If they need to be, or want to be, in these areas . . . it only makes sense to have a firearm," said University of Alberta biologist Andrew Derocher. "I wouldn't go into these areas without a firearm, so I don't see why other people shouldn't (carry a gun)."

http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Parks+Canada+permit+guns+polar+bear+territories/5067807/story.html

awwww he just wants to hug ya … wont eatcha … promise …

Wow. Over 24 hours old and this thread hasn't yet gone nuclear. The hoplophobes must all be out hiking in the company of the foaming gun nuts- or something- because they don't seem to be here at the moment. It kind of warms the heart. We CAN all just get along!

But, yes, Tim, you can search for the many other threads on this subject and get your answer- I think. Among the many myriad types of hikers there are two especially common archetypes: the conservative-macho-rugged-outdoors(wo)men and the crunchy-granola-liberal-treehugger. This is one subject where they clash horribly and generally in a un-civil manner, so it has become something of a faux pas to bring it up. But the old threads are there to search. Brace yourself.

I don't really care if a person brings a gun or not as long as they use it responsibly and aren't target shooting across area's people are walking through.

But as far as UL ethos goes it is definitely on the unnecessary list. The first thing you would ask yourself is if you have ever used your gun while on the trail? The second thing you would ask yourself is there a lighter substitute or can knowledge and skill be used to make the item unnecessary.

So if you have never been required to draw your gun on the trail, and bear spray is a lighter and just as effective alternative in dealing with animals the only time you might need a gun on the trail is dealing with Criminals and then you go back to point one of have you ever needed it.

If your response is it is better to have it then not I would assume that your first aid kit would also way 5lbs, you would have a PLB and a Spot for redundancy, all your insulation would be synthetic in case it got wet, and you would use double walled shelters made of bomber fabrics. Because you better be safe than sorry. The whole ethos that I have drawn from UL is that I might need it is never an acceptable reason to put an item in your kit.

I will repeat that I really don't have an issue with people carrying and I am in Canada so it is completely a non-issue to me but if you are considering bringing a gun it shouldn't be treated as a special part of your kit just because you have the right to carry it. It should be evaluated the same way we evaluate toilet paper and Nalagene bottles.

In the end I can't see justifying bringing a gun from a weight vs. function standpoint anymore than I can see justifying bringing a hard plastic indestructible Nalegene.

hey dont pick on nalgenes !!!

they are gods gift for storing boilling water in winter with a thermal sleeve

not to mention they make many a winter nights warmer filled with hawt water … when UL wenches (no offence, gigolos for ladies) arent available ;)

I seldom carry a weapon when hiking or backpacking, but most often bring along a Mossberg shotgun when we are kayaking along Admiralty, Baranof and Chichagof Islands here in Southeast Alaska. There are a lot of brown bears on those islands and the shotgun adds a bit of an advantage and comfort. It is usually the only non water craft specific piece of gear we carry, the rest being the same in our backpacks.

The only time I have chambered a slug in a shotgun was on Baffin Island in the Canadian Arctic. We were constantly being pursued by polar bears as we paddled a 150 mile reach of Frobisher Bay. A particularly persistent young male tracked us along the coast and then plunged into the ocean and started to swim after our kayaks. I pulled the gun from the cockpit and shot near — intentionally — the bear to convince him we were not lunch.

Do you put hot water in Nalgene and then drink it?

I heard this leaches out the BPA which causes the drinker to lose the ability to use the "shift" key

I see and appreciate your point about questioning whether a gun the lightest solution for safety from wild animals etc.

" am in Canada so it is completely a non-issue to me"

Is this because it is difficult to get a permit,or something else? The photographer who
chased off the charging bear with a shot in the air had a permit.

"I heard this leaches out the BPA which causes the drinker to lose the ability to use the "shift" key"

LOL.

The pack while packing debate has come up a few times in backpacking groups, usually people who want the gun for human deterrent, particularly while hiking solo. I always ended up pointing out exactly what Nick said: to use a gun effectively one needs not only to have the skills to wield it correctly but also the mental quickness and fortitude to know exactly the right situation in which to fire it — and then to do so without hesitation. There are very, very few people who can pull the latter off without something very wrong potentially happening.

Jeebuz…I think my eyes are twitching.

Oh please. Don't be so condescending!

If you really want to give the right advice, then tell anyone who is interested to go take training. Nothing more than that is needed. Proper training – a simple answer.

This doesn't matter if it is a woman or man.

Don't tell someone that they won't have the fortitude and to give up their ideas. Their ideas are not crazy or halfbaked, they already understand that no one, and no one, is going to protect a person like themselves.

I know plenty of women who carry – the only issue we face as women is that if petite it can be harder to shoot certain firearms, due to hand strength. I have no issue shooting rifles for example but due to petite hands I cannot rack certain handguns – although I can still shoot them if needed. That is why I prefer a smaller 45 (Kimber) or full size 9 (Springfield XD) and not a full size 45. Women often shoot better than men even so there you go.

And in the PNW there is excellent schooling out there, taught by some of the best – and it is affordable. And there are even all women classes to take.

Evan, why is your post titled "Women and Guns"? I've been avoiding this thread, but your title + post is a ridiculous insinuation, for all the reasons Sarah pointed out. If a woman carries a gun, she's capable of being as competent–or incompetent–with it as a man.

"There are very, very few people who can pull the latter off without something very wrong potentially happening."

Regardless of post title, the above seems pretty gender neutral to me. These threads often 'go south' because people decide to take umbrage for the most, in my opinion, silliest of reasons.

Besides, I know Evan, and he'd help out an able bodied man as quickly as he'd help out a poor, defenseless woman. I'm sure of it….

Sorry! I actually didn't intend a gender slant to the main point, despite the post title. It was more parenthetical, since more women brought this up on my outings, out of concern for safety when hiking solo.

Training is important. Attitude is important. Taking resposibilty for your own safety is the most important. It doesn't matter if you are underwater while kayaking, hypothermic while hiking, or being assaulted by thugs at a gas station. If you've made the decision to not give in, to fight for your life even if the odds don't look good… that's the most important thing. Training and equipment are only tools that can make it easier.

It doesn't make any difference if you're a man or a woman. In fact, being a woman is sometimes an advantage to sexist criminals who think they will be an easy target. Being a large, muscular man might deter some thieves, but once they're committed, they are more likely to make sure you don't have a chance to react.

And yes, women are typically better shots. My daughter is a much better shot than I am. And yes, its a blow to my ego, but I'm proud of her at the same time. ;)

I don't consider sexism to be a silly reason, but yes, the post seemed more neutral and tone is hard to read online. Sorry if I misread you, Evan.

I assure you that I have the training, skill, mental quickness and fortitude to defend myself as do all those that I travel with. Most of us have done so in real life situations many times.

Great. Now we're talking- between the lines, of course- about who's actually got the cojones to shoot people and who actually has. What a beautiful day.

This topic always brings out the best in people, doesn't it?

Did you Say "Make My Day"?!

Oh… "What a Beautiful Day".

Craig, I was a soldier for over 20 years. Your welcome for the ability to voice your opinion.

I actually completely trust former (or current) soldiers, marines, law enforcement personnel, and anyone with the training and/or life experience with weapons. I'm just not sure that everyone who is actually packing falls into one of these categories.

(And a big thanks to all who risk themselves for the rest of the community in their daily lives. I recently spent 18 months on a base in Iraq as the State Department political officer and was wowed by what our soldiers and marines do every day — year in and year out.)

"Craig, I was a soldier for over 20 years. Your welcome for the ability to voice your opinion."

My gosh. I've been a taxpayer for more than 40 years. You're welcome for the retirement funding.

Thank you. I pay taxes too. I'm not retired. I still work a full time job as a RN.

By the way, I earned that retirement. I'm not standing in the welfare line. Very insulting remark, sir.

And I see that you work for the government yourself as a civi so that would make you a hypocrite as well as some other choice words I can think of.

Edit:

Post #3: I have feeling this is gonna to be fun."
Post #4: No, It gets ugly every time."