Are you “packing” while you are packing?

[seth t]

oo

[D G]

Can anybody spot the anachronism in Lee Van Cleef's setup?

[Aaron Benson]

""Can anybody spot the anachronism in Lee Van Cleef's setup?""

I think Lee was trying to stay on the lighter side by carrying that cap and ball shooter, but he'd obviously forgotten that reloading it with cartridges would be a little difficult, as well as make that belt a little heavier.

It's like bringing along a 7oz canister for your Caldera 12-10.

[Evan McCarthy]

Um, aren't guns heavy? What are you looking at for weapon and ammunition weight-wise?

(And what is your arming status? Do you hike with a chambered bullet? Clip in the gun?)

[David Olsen]

"Are you 'packing' while you're packing
Asked the OP with a grin
The responses were quite tepid
Until Beartooth ambled in—"

the idester, STERing things up and putting the "Ide" back in sidearm.

And maybe the "short" back in shortarm.

http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/origin-term-short-arm-inspection-t1161.html

[a b]

I have everything under control.
Some wacko pulls a gun on me and i pull out this:

Orignally created as a grizzly bear defence system, my revolutionary patent pending design works equally well on rabid hikers.
The toothbrush scares bears because wel all know they never like to brush their teeth.
I use the tweezers to pull the nose hairs out of the guy aiming a gun at me.. kinda hard to shoot straight with tears in your eyes!
I know.. pure genius.

[James Neal]

All my backpacking friends and I are armed when we go out. Many of us are retired military including myself (11B). Some are retired and current law enforcement officers. We are all extensively trained and have CCPs. I carry a loaded .357 with 2 speed loaders in a shoulder holster for easy access. I didn't carry a firearm for many years. However, we now have a lot of meth heads down here that like to cook in our woods not to mention a feral pig population that has exploded. I don't shoot snakes or bears, but I have seen some pigs shot. Fortunately, I have never needed it. But my training tells me that it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Personally, I don't care if it is politically correct. It is my Constitutional right.

[BlackHatGuy]

"And maybe the "short" back in shortarm."

Thanks for the link, that's priceless! Who says history can't be fun!

[alan barber]

I've been backpacking almost 40 years. I've always carried where it was legal. It has come in handy about as many times as my first aid kit. Some people may choose not to carry one of those either.

Seems like I'll continue carrying it. It's my life, my choice, and it affects other people not at all.

And for those asking about weight, 20 oz.

Az

[David Olsen]

A good percentage of people are armed when in the NE Washington backcountry.

There is a bear or cougar attack at least once a year.

Many already have the firearms, so bring that instead of pepper spray which has fewer other uses and a shelf life.

Washington state is a shall issue state so if you are not a prohibited person you can
get a carry permit for about $50 and a trip to the sheriff to fill out paperwork. Open
carry is okay without a permit too.

[EndoftheTrail]

" Fortunately, I have never needed it. But my training tells me that it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it."

I am generally pro "live and let live" — but this mantra is actually quite at odds with the spirit of backpacking light…

[James Neal]

You are entitled to your opinion. However, my summer base weight is under 7lbs and my winter base weight is under 12lbs. I'll carry a weapon if I choose to.

[EndoftheTrail]

James:

It is obvious that you are extremely judicious about what you carry vs. what you leave behind. Besides, who's to say a gun is not every bit as appropriate as a PLB or a GPS, or whatever other gear pieces that people choose to carry?

Not an issue with guns per se (as indicated in my earlier post). It's the mantra — which too often gets people to over pack far beyond what they need to. In your case, even though you stated it, methinks you don't actually subscribe to it — not really — else you would never have gotten down to 12 lbs for winter hikes! :)

[James Neal]

" Fortunately, I have never needed it. But my training tells me that it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it."

This statement was in reference to my weapon only. I have been backpacking for 40 years this summer and I have carried the 50-70lb pack many miles, not to mention some of the packs I carried while in the Army. Ridiculous. Through this forum, several books and some field training I have learned that I don't need much of what I once carried. I have completely replaced all my gear and I have certainly adopted the "Backpacking Light" philosophy.

I failed to mention that I have also converted most of my friends to this way of backpacking. There are still a couple of hold outs, but they are starting to see the light.

[Sarah Kirkconnell]

I have a CPL. I don't hide that fact. Considering the background check needed to get the CPL, if you hand over that piece of paper or plastic to an officer that shows that you were willing to be fingerprinted and have your background looked into.

I have also taken a hefty of boring but good for me classes, as dictated to me by my husband, on what is good for understanding my legal responsibilities in carrying. We shoot as a family, it is a hobby to us no different than hiking.

I am all for using my constitutional right even if many don't want it.

And not everything is heavy. Please. When compared to the load I currently carry – the most precious cargo I will ever carry, a firearm is nothing to it. Truly nothing.

[D G]

http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsinternet/!ut/p/c5/04_SB8K8xLLM9MSSzPy8xBz9CP0os3gDfxMDT8MwRydLA1cj72BTFxdjAwgAykeaxRtBeY4WBv4eHmF-YT4GMHn8usNB9uHXDzYBB3A00PfzyM9N1S_IjTDIMnFUBADEf0RM/dl3/d3/L2dJQSEvUUt3QS9ZQnZ3LzZfMjAwMDAwMDBBODBPSEhWTjJNMDAwMDAwMDA!/?navtype=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&cid=stelprdb5311871&navid=120000000000000&pnavid=null&ss=110617&position=News.Html&ttype=detail&pname=Okanogan-Wenatchee%20National%20Forest-%20Alerts

Sorry about the long link.

[HkNewman]

Some carry, more don't . True wilderness usually doesn't require a firearm but staying near a trailhead or highway, maybe. Also, don't shoot the snakes that rattle, that only selects those that don't. Shooting a charging bear will PO it even further, assuming a shot can even hit it's mark at 40 mph. A mountain lion will likely hit you from the back but even those attacks are very rare.

Edit: Think "wandering_bob" below is right on track, vv

[James Troche]

Right now I carry a Taurus Slim 9 and I am starting to have second thoughts on carrying it. I am new to the whole sleeping in the wilderness thing so the gun give me a sense of security. I have extensive firearm training but getting a kill shot with a 9 on a charging bear is very unlikely. I am leaning towards getting a can of bear spray but I don't think they will help for things that go bump in the night!!!

JimT

[Bob Gross]

The only trouble with bear spray is that its maximum effective range is about 25-30 feet, and its muzzle velocity is just about zero. Some users have claimed that they might do better against a bear by trying to throw the bear spray dispenser at it.

–B.G.–

[Nick Gatel]

The OP's question is a good one. He just wants input, because he is not sure whether or not it is a good idea. How we answer the question determines the course of the thread.

In most places in the continental US, a weapon is not needed to protect yourself from animals, with the possible exception that bear spray in Grizzly country could be helpful, but that does not guarantee your safety. A hand gun will probably not be effective if you are attacked by a bear or mountain lion… it will happen so quickly, you will probably just p*ss off the animal — if you have time to get a shot off.

You need to be one heck of a marksman to quickly pull a weapon and hit a snake with one shot, if you stumble into striking distance. A hiking pole is more effective. If you are not close enough to a snake to get bitten, it is not a threat to you. This should answer the OP's questions.

I have been backpacking for a long time too. And with a couple exceptions don't even take a GPS or a cell phone. I have never carried or felt the need for a gun, mp3 player, or PLB when backpacking. To me they are all the same; just extra weight. If you need them for some reason, then bring them. Many people never have a need for any of them, others need them all.

I was in the military and was expert in the use firearms and some other nasty stuff for their intended purpose. I don't hunt, but it is not because I am against hunting, it is just something I am not interested in… I am not against guns. And yes we have the right to have them, and I would not want to abridge that right.

This topic comes up every so often, and it is a debate that no one can win, and it usually gets quite heated.

Over the decades a lot of people have asked me if I take a gun, and most of those who ask do not hike. Most people I know who backpack do not take one, and a couple tell me they do. Some beginning backpackers have expressed concern to me about running into bad people. And it was mentioned earlier in the thread. Like anything else in life, I suppose there is a remote chance. So if you decide you need a weapon, think about it carefully. If you were looking someone in the eye, could you really pull the trigger? You may think so; but could you?

Many rookie law enforcement officers and Army privates cannot do it, and they are trained to kill if needed. Some of the the ex-cops and ex-military people here can or have pulled it; but DO NOT assume you can. If you show a weapon you better be darn sure you are willing to use it, any hesitation to pull the trigger could get yourself killed. Just talking might get you out of a potentially dangerous situation whereas a gun might escalate a confrontation with deadly consequences for somebody. A life threatening confrontation in the wilderness is more than likely not going to happen in the first place. And if you run into really bad people, they are probably going to be better armed than you to begin with.

So if you absolutely must take a weapon, phone, etc. then take it. It is up to you. I don't think you need a weapon, but it is not up to me to decide what is best for you.

BTW, I have take trips where my big 3 weigh around 20 ounces :)

[Tim Sullivan]

I appreciate all the comments. Let me say that if I do or do not pack a firearm, my main reason for starting this thread was just to get an idea and to hear other opinions before I decided myself. I too believe that it is my constitutional right to keep and bear arms but I also respect those that do not.

I didn't phrase my initial post properly. If I do carry, I have no intention on shooting bears or snakes or anything else for that matter. I have a whistle to scare away any bears and I have a healthy respect for any snakes. I do think that a visible handgun may be a deterrent to any people that may have more than hiking on their minds.

I guess it all boils down to what makes you feel comfortable and at ease in the woods. If going armed does that, then arm yourself. If carrying a weapon makes you nervous, then don't carry.

As for me, as someone pointed out, I would rather have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

[Nick Gatel]

Tim,

To me it is a part of how "risk adverse" a person is. For example, I hauled around a space blanket and a lot of first aid items that I never used in over 20 years. Eventually, as I analyzed ever piece of gear, I got rid of the stuff that I never used. I also used Nalgene bottles for a long time because they are indestructible, but heavy. I now am comfortable using platypus or light Aquafina type bottles. Eliminating gear you don't need is part of the lightening up process.

Every person needs to review their kit and determine what is really necessary for them to be (and feel) safe and comfortable.

[Bob Gross]

"I have a whistle to scare away any bears"

To a grizzly bear, that may sound like the dinner bell.

–B.G.–

[David Olsen]

"In most places in the continental US, a weapon is not needed to protect yourself from animals, with the possible exception that bear spray in Grizzly country could be helpful, but that does not guarantee your safety. A hand gun will probably not be effective if you are attacked by a bear or mountain lion… it will happen so quickly, you will probably just p*ss off the animal — if you have time to get a shot off.

You need to be one heck of a marksman to quickly pull a weapon and hit a snake with one shot, if you stumble into striking distance. A hiking pole is more effective. If you are not close enough to a snake to get bitten, it is not a threat to you. This should answer the OP's questions."

—

Nothing is a "guarantee" of safety. Air bags don't guarantee you won't get hurt in a car accident.

Most handguns will be used only at "get off me" range. Thus you don't need to be much
of a marks-person.

It doesn't appear to take much of a weapon to get a lion off someone. They have been driven off by ball point pens, forceps, and water bottles. If one survives the initial attempt to bite through the neck vertabra, a handgun would be more effective it would seem than a pair of swiss army tweezers or a cloud of pepper spray swirling about one's head. Especially if a hiking partner is the one wielding the weapon.

Some bears can be discouraged with very little as well. Shooting at a
charging Griz that may be bluffing may not be the best use of the weapon.
But the sound of a shot can be effective. See this video example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=401ATHqOCOg

If you are hiking where you have aggressive snakes-copperheads, water moccasins-
snake shot could be of use.

[Anonymous]

"Is that package big or small?
Is it even there at all?
Is it dormant, or actually used?
Handled gently, or quite abused?
Is it under lock and key?
Is it always right with me?
Powerful ammo, or only blanks?
Do you really want to know

---

NO THANKS!"

Are we talking rifles here, or guns?

[Author]

Posts