#Moonlight tent …

Yes, because of a change of terms with the manufacturer, these are now available for ordering. These are for sale, with a discount to prepaid orders on the first production batch.

The kickstarter has been pulled, but the tents live on.

If I understand correctly, posts like this one, which was created by the Company, and not BPL specific in any way should be moderated to oblivion ?

However, posts like this one suggests the moderator is willing to allow non BPL specific deals on stoves when they have an advertised interest in modifying stoves as a service performed in exchange for money.

Valerie,

That would be fine…except the rule was created AFTER this thread started, still isn't enforced equitably, and isn't really necessary since these specific circumstances rarely occur.

@Jen,

We agree? I might have to change sides then! ;)

I think Rodger has taken a lot of insults, yet the thread is still running. I've been asked with good reason to lay off the O.P.yet insults against the mod go unnoticed.

I've been in the same boat as Roger, moderating a really large board that attracted a lot of people trying to drum up business for themselves at the expense of the experience of others. It can be very tough too, when a user that has contributed something positive in the past, turns around and markets something without true relevance to the group. If you let it go unchallenged, it becomes a precedent for others to follow suit. Yet, if you exercise some quality control, it can potentially become a drama magnet and would of been better if you ignored it and die naturally from lack of interest. Hard to strike the right balance of looking the other way from innocuous self promotion and discouraging the more calculated attempts to exploit the group for commercial gain.

By the way, look out for my post on gear deals about my wife's designer throw pillows. They weigh 4 lbs for the small ones, but there is no reason you couldn't take them backpacking. Special deal for BPL is we will include free replacement zipper.

""However, posts like this one suggests the moderator is willing to allow non BPL specific deals on stoves when they have an advertised interest in modifying stoves as a service performed in exchange for money.""

Two seperate sales. As far as I see, no money has been made off of the stove itself. Any stove can be modified. Seems you have to strech a bit to make this accusation. When I imply a man a crook, I like to have more than just suggestions.
We have a running ad here that cost $25,that has not been removed and everybody jumps on the mod. This has been a lot of publicity for the O.P. He has gotten a deal.

I don't think sales posted in Gear Deals need to be BPL specific

But there should be a new and well-defined policy for Kickstarter campaigns or manufacturer posts about new products or pre-sales. I can only imagine what Gear Deals would become like if every person with an outdoor-related Kickstarter began advertising their "deal".

Perhaps a new forum index specifically meant for manufacturers to post their sales would work. One that you can toggle on and off like Chaff.

Valerie has nailed it exactly.

If you are posting a deal FOR YOUR OWN PROFIT (i.e., you have an interest in the company), then you must adhere to the strict rules;
However…
If you're just posting a "public service" notification (eg. "Here's a coupon code for STP", or "ZPacks has some great stuff in their bargain bin") and the OP has no interest in the company being promoted — then we do not apply the rules strictly.

And her explanation of why was spot on too.

I believe that the rule was created to prevent companies from using this site as "free advertising", taking a profit without giving anything to the community as a whole. Members sharing deals they happen to find with the community is not at all the same animal!

I've got a thick skin. No problems.
Cheers

We know the current purpose of the recently revised policy there Roger. However, you repeatedly fail to address two issues: that you changed the rules AFTER this thread was started AND you haven't applied the new rules evenly to all posters.

Just a few threads down, Josh from Ruta Locura tells us of all the great sales on his website, and his new modification of the jetboil:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=103030&disable_pagination=1

No deal for BPL, it's his own company, etc etc.

So why no hate there??

Personally I don't mind at all – but YES, I AGREE WITH MICHAEL L. the rules are applied haphazardly, and yes, I appreciate that Roger has a huge job (one I don't want to do!). But if we're going to have rules then we need to have rules, and if not, well then we don't.

> you repeatedly fail to address two issues
What can I say?
Tough.

Do I read every posting every day? No.
Do I miss some postings? Yes.
Am I perfect? No.

Do I persecute some posters and not others?
Do you want me to? What's in it for me? Payoff, guys, payoff! (Australian humour alert)

If you think there is a posting which is inappropriate and which I seem to have missed, flag it using the Report button. I will check it. If I don't think the posting is a problem, no worries. If it is a problem in my opinion, I will deal with it.

cheers

Well Roger, apparently from the number of posts on this thread from people who care enough to post, the overwhelming majority think your opinion and actions here are BS. Sometimes you need to step back. If everybody disagrees with you, then perhaps you are the problem, not everybody else.

Do you want to help RJ drive what is left of this community into the ground? I guess considering the way the absentee owner changes his policies and promises, I shouldn't be surprised when his moderators do as well.

<<<Do I read every posting every day? No.>>>>
You have time to respond here multiple times, but continue to ignore other posts in the same forum that were bumped to point out the exact same "rules violation" found here.

There are probably a least a trillion to the 10th power more important things in life than worrying about gear deals, or gear swap, or BPL for that matter.

Come on folks, it's an Internet forum; not the demise of humanity, a threat to wilderness, or anything of importance.

I'm staring at Pikes Peak wondering when I'll get a break from the clouds. Beats the desert.

It does apparently matter to some folks Nick. Shoot, even you took time to post in an effort to school us.

Since when does Roger write BPL policy?

I miss Addie.

Not a new rule as under the Gear Deals heading there is this :
"Announcements of online & local sales, coupons, etc. Commercial posts OK, but ONLY if you are announcing a sale or coupon. If you are advertising something, the DEAL (sale or coupon) must be unique to BPL members, not just available to anyone via your web site or where-ever. If you are reporting on what could be a good deal from somewhere else not connected to you, that may pass OK. We reserve the right to delete unacceptable postings."

It has been there for some time.
However I see the problem from both sides because ,for example,at the start of this year I posted the availability of a certain tent that was discussed at the time, the only "deal" there was that it was not yet on the order page and I suspected that the first run would go very fast.It did, so members here that took the opportunity were the first to get it, others had to wait a few more weeks.
Now, was that a deal or no deal?
(I did that only once but it seemed the right thing to do at the time…)

Franco,

"Announcements of online & local sales, coupons, etc. Commercial posts OK, but ONLY if you are announcing a sale or coupon."

post 5/23 it changed because of this thread….go read page 1 where Roger admits as such and changes the wording.

Main difference between this post on Mike's tent and when Roger was posting about his own tent, is that you can actually preorder Mike's tent….

Hi Ken

> Since when does Roger write BPL policy?
Subject to advice or veto from Ryan J, for the last year or two.
Well, you asked.

Cheers

" If everybody disagrees with you, then perhaps you are the problem, not everybody else."

There is a countervailing school of thought which holds that if everybody disagrees with you, you are probably right.

Both have their adherents. ;0))

DAMMIT CAFFIN!!!! get on it man! SLACKER!!!!

and a serious +1 to Tom.

Back when I was a producer for ABC News we used to say that if we only got complaints from one side we didn't do our jobs very well. If the phones rang off the hook from EVERYBODY then we knew we were spot on…..

Roger has been wrong about a lot of things for a very long time, for a lot of different reasons. But when you look at how he applies his own arbitrarily established rules here on this forum, it becomes very clear, the reasons why.

How many years has he been writing about producing things, while also writing excuses about why they won't come to market? I mean a real market, an actual licensed business venture. Not "send me some pieces and I'll assemble it for you".

Roger, "Those that can, do, those that can't, teach, or write about it."

For those paying attention to this. Roger told me when he emailed me about posting deals here on BPL, that he was contacting me because there was "a lot of whining from forum members". That's right, it is us forum members that are responsible for Rogers arbitrary and capricious application, of his unilaterally made up rules.

So one year or two? What other policy has been changed that you want to take credit for since the shoe spamming thing?

Oh hey people. You could just post over on the "On the Web" forum and not need any criteria other than a web address.
Rules are…
Post your surf slop here – personal websites or other Web resources that will be informative to lightweight backpackers.

Most cottage guys have a personal website.

This is where people look for "Gear Deals", well at least logically they do.

The bottom line is that you are making money here for very little investment. When I read posts like this one, I tend to go elsewhere. I personally don't air my dirty laundry in public. If I am dissatisfied, I go elsrwhere. Websites are cheap, forums are free with ads.

I come here to both make money, and save money.

That's why I post sales, and look for them in the "Gear Deals" area. Is the Moonlight tent a "deal", depends on your definition. At a minimum I know about it because of this place. Does that have value? For some it does, and that may inherently be a "deal".

I was notified by email, by Roger Caffin, about my posts I made here. Supposedly because of an out cry by forum members that don't like to save money, or be informed. You know the ones that come here for those two reasons. I speak publicly rather than behind closed doors. I bet Roger won't repeat his comments about America publicly. Apparently, protection from illegal refusal of service, is something that is "Only in America".

I have done fine not posting here for years, and will continue to do so. But I will be missing other's deals, as will everyone else.

Refusal of service is only illegal in certain cases and even then it depends on how good your lawyer is. Basically it protects against racism and it also serves the handicapped. For most of us, it really means nothing.
One of the accusations here of conflict of interest had to do with the modification of the stoves from Gearbest. I believe you were also modifying the same stove. Has there been a conflict there?