#Moonlight tent …

Refusal of service has teeth, when it comes to the legal agreements with financial institutions and card processors, its contractual.

What conflict with the stoves? I have posted comments elsewhere about the stoves from gear best possibly being seconds. The price, the fact that threads aren't right, the use of thread locker, etc. says that something is not right. especially given that wholesale from the factory is ~$8, with out shipping, but you can buy them from some sources for ~$11 with shipping?

Yes, I modify the BRS-3000T stoves to work with Jetboil pots, what is the conflict?

I learned my lesson on cheap stoves. You carry them for miles and they end up failing and you end up hungry.
There is no coflict between you and Rodger over the stoves. The promotion has helped both of you. Is that correct? If so, why would one tend to believe there was a conflict over these tents, especially as so many have pointed out, his tents are not in production. Mind you, I know that wasn't your point, yet that seems to be the premise of this conflict.
A contractual agreement is different as you say. You could sue for damages, get your $100 back. It would be self defeating. You really get a good return on your advertisement dollar. What's the saying about a new rope. Folks need to chill, the ads are still here.

As are the emails I was sent by Roger, that specifically go after me offering the modified BRS-3000 stove kit, but essentially exempting my sale on titanium pots. Like I said, targeted, arbitrary and capricious application of rules that have been changed mid stream.

That's my fault Terran is confused.

I suggested that since Roger ignores his rules for stoves, and that he offers to modify for profit these stoves, that he may have a reason for selectively enforcing the rules.

I also suggested that Roger had personal reasons to interfere with the tent thread, and created a new rule to justify trashing a legitimate post.

Obviously you don't write the rules. You also don't enforce the rules. You aren't making exceptions to the rules for a vendor with a stove for which you happen to offer a modification. I don't see how Terran confused your situation with that of a moderator that makes and enforces rules as he sees fit.

Sorry for any confusion.

Seriously people – what's wrong with cottage makers telling us about what they're up to and any sales they have?? That's one of the main reasons I come here…I don't care if they're out to make money (hell, and I'm even a communist!). Good for them!

If the moonlight tent guy wants to talk about his tents, great. If Josh has a product he's selling – great – I'd love to hear about it. I like to know when the QiWiz guy has something cool, or Lawson, or whatever. It's not like they are REI or Academy Sports blitzing me with ads (oh wait, that's already all over my screen…)

Let the guys post – it's not like we have this wave of people posting random car deals or something. If it gets out of hand, well then THAT'S a good time to do something (like our spam problem a few years ago).

Otherwise jeez people….what's the problem??!!!!

Needs to post a sale on saws, I need one.

I also suggested that Roger had personal reasons to interfere with the tent thread, and created a new rule to justify trashing a legitimate post.

Curious, does anybody think if the OP posted the same exact way, but the 2 person tent was a 2.5 lbs cuben fiber version instead of like 5 lbs, that the post would of been moderated? My gut tells me it wouldn't of been touched, because it would of been of value and interest to a lot of people here.

Being somebody who has never tried to sell anything, I don't have any experience with the pitfalls of marketing items on backpackinglight.com and getting it slapped down. Only thing I get to gauge what's kosher, is seeing what gets a pass and what doesn't. Seems usually when something is spammy and gets a pass, it has pretty obvious value (at least to my eyes). The stuff that doesn't manage to slide by, comes across as the same old thing somebody posted 3 months or a year ago, but with a new fairly hollow deal to justify its existence.

Daniel's initial posts from Tenkara USA were deleted by Roger Caffin years ago.

Why? Obviously because they were spam, no one wanted that heavy complicated garbage.

How about a commercial Gear Deal Forum for companies. They would only be able to post a deal if they are a paying BPL member. No special discount need be extended to BPL members.

Seems like a simple and obvious solution to me.

I don't need a saw. But I have bought a few carbon fiber tent poles from Josh.

After 4 failed kickstarter attempts I think the market has spoken..

Yes it has….http://www.inklinginc.com/pastprojects.html

Seriously people – what's wrong with cottage makers telling us about what they're up to and any sales they have??

I'd love to have some kind of aggregator for the cottage guys, where you could keep tabs on what they were doing. Maybe not in Gear Deals though, as I really appreciate Roger doing what he can to try and preserve the utility of a thread meant for tangible deals, rather allowing it to be a place where the facade of a deal is used to excuse their scheduled marketing campaigns.

Without giving it too much thought, if I could visit a area with the names of cottage companies and drill down into threads talking about their products and what they were doing… I'd be on there quite a bit. I'm sure there are all kinds of problems that could creep up, but I think this website could benefit from leveraging the motivation and excitement of the cottage industry.

You still have an industry deaf "moderator".

"Curious, does anybody think if the OP posted the same exact way, but the 2 person tent was a 2.5 lbs cuben fiber version instead of like 5 lbs, that the post would of been moderated? My gut tells me it wouldn't of been touched, because it would of been of value and interest to a lot of people here. "

I think it probably would have been moderated the same way. Forum members interest rarely gets considered in other areas of the site so no reason to think it has impact in Gear Deals.

Ryan

I think it probably would have been moderated the same way. Forum members interest rarely gets considered in other areas of the site so no reason to think it has impact in Gear Deals.

When he posted his Deuce of Spades kickstarter last year, the worst that happened was Roger moved it to Gear Deals and made mention that he was doing this despite the posting didn’t include an actual deal. Although, I think being on Kickstarter itself implies a deal of some nature; even though you may end up paying more than if it makes it to retail.

It seems the distinguishing difference between the Moonlight tent and the Deuce of Spades, was that one was a entirely relevant and desirable item to a lightweight backpacking community… where the other was not.

Probably doesn’t mean much, but before replying to this, I didn’t know Mike posted a kickstarter for the trowel or that Roger behaved how I predicted he would in my hypothetical. However, I looked it into it to see if I was entirely off the mark.

That said, I have a real interest in seeing the stuff people make and want to sell me, if it is at least borderline relevant to lightweight backpacking. Would be cool to see some kind of accommodation made, at least for those willing to pay for a membership and support this place (discourage the spam).

Gee – some people (who knows how many s far as I know few have complained publicly) complain about vendors posting their deals in the gear deals so the policy changes without warning.

A number of people have complained publicly about all of the gear swap adds clogging our feed and could these please be moved to a separate area ala chaff, but nope, nothing can be done about that.

"Rogers arbitrary and capricious application, of his unilaterally made up rules."

Yep, sums it up pretty neatly! Well put Josh!

"Seriously people – what's wrong with cottage makers telling us about what they're up to and any sales they have?? That's one of the main reasons I come here…I don't care if they're out to make money (hell, and I'm even a communist!). Good for them!"

Agreed Jennifer. I just don't get it. There is no problem with the fact that 25% of the posts on this board are from members selling their gear, but a handful of posts from business people wanting to give members a good deal are a big problem requiring strict rules.

This place never ceases to amaze me!

Hi James

> but a handful of posts from business people wanting to give members a good deal are a
> big problem requiring strict rules.

Not quite. You don't get to see the ones which are blocked by the 'strict rules'.
The worst case was a web site which claimed they wanted to sell camping gear, but their main line of business was drug paraphanalia and drugs, mostly of somewhat questionable legality.

No business want to give anyone anything. They would like to entice potential customers to their web site, and they would like to use the 'free' advertising channel that BPL Gear Deals offers. They do not pay BPL anything, even though it cost BPL $$ to run the web site.

Well, OK, subject to some basic principles:
* Not spammers
* Relevant to light-weight backpacking
* a DEAL is offered to Members

Pretty simple, and most businesses do 'get it'.

Cheers

"Well, OK, subject to some basic principles:
* Not spammers
* Relevant to light-weight backpacking
* a DEAL is offered to Members"

Roger, it might be helpful if you show one example of a good one, and one example of a bad one. They could be fictitious examples.

–B.G.–

Hi Bob

You trying to get me into trouble?

Well, Mike's sale of the cosmetic reject Deuce of Spades at discounted prices was OK. Yes, I may have moved that posting from Gear into Gear Deals, but that's where it belonged. Thing is, BPL Members were being offered a deal.

Spammers: revisit the shoe spammer saga. I was deleting up to 50 spams per DAY when that happened. A new release of the 'common' spamming SW enabled the spammers to actually create accounts on BPL automatically. That's why the $5 membership fee was introduced.

Relevant: I get a new offer every week from some PR companies. Fashionwear, mobile phones, holidays … plonk. Not to mention that drug sales web site…

Deal: Often goes hand in hand with the PR spatter I get: no deal offered. Then there's the growing horde of Kickstarter campaigns for all sorts of irrelevant things. No DEAL for BPL members offered there either. So Kickstarter ads will usually be rejected.

Cheers

this thread was moderated for personal reasons. Roger made a new rule he will enforce when he feels like it.

That is the definition of arbitrary and capricious, and the bigger problem with "discretion".

The "rules" can not be enforced in an equitable fashion, and above and beyond my dislike of Roger, that is the root problem here.

I don't think any of us have a problem with rules that are meant to benefit the community as a whole, but there needs to be consistency, and a mechanism in place to ensure that. Lets hope such a solution gets more fore thought, and happens in a more timely fashion than it takes Roger to design and bring something to market.

I'm not really interested in reading about your dislike of Roger – or anyone on this site (or any other). Get a life, and stop projecting your frustrations onto others.

+1 Robert.

A lot of these angry posts against Roger are starting to seem unhealthy. Obsessively going on and on about the guy, making him out to be some kind of demon…well, it's beginning to look just plain mean.

Yes there does need to be codified laws regarding Gear Deals, but if Roger didn't do some kind of policing, things would get out of hand. Then the same people who complain about Roger would start crying about how there's too many plugs for products.

A big part of the problem is that many of the whiners do most of their hiking on the computer. If they could just get out and get a little exercise, then maybe they'd be able to purge some of their pent up aggression.

But in many ways this is a benevolent crowd here at BPL. I mean a guy comes onto backpackinglight trying to sell tents that weigh as much as boat anchors and he doesn't get massacred. Now that shows restraint!

My favorite trips were done with a tent similar to these, also designed by Mike for a company.

Good photos don't happen in secluded spots with no view.

These tents addressed problems I had with the tent I was using, wind deformation and stretch.

I find the BPL philosophy of running away from the best sites to seek shelter unrewarding, it's like leaving the woods every two days for a resupply. Both are popular here, but they aren't the only way to travel and enjoy backpacking.

The 2p is weight competitive with other tents, 3p is more of a tank with massive poles.