Why it’s best not to rely on cellphone navigation when hiking

[J-L]

I don’t think you can generalize whole generations of people. I know people in their 70s and 80s who are addicted to their phones and never put them down. And other old people who barely use them. Many of my millennial friends try to reach a balance – things like no phone use at meals or around family, airplane mode only on backpacking trips, etc – while others are pretty heavy users.

I think it’s natural to adopt better technologies. For backpacking, you just have to know how to use whatever you’re carrying (map and compass, phone, dedicated GPS unit…or some combination) and be aware of its limitations and capabilities.

10 years ago, I would get stopped by other hikers asking for directions (how far, where is whatever, etc) on almost every trip. Now that almost never happens. Maybe I no longer look like I know where I’m going :) Or maybe fewer people are getting lost.

[Mike M]

note to self: leave instructions to my family to bury me with my cellphone; oh wait I’m being cremated- well maybe they can toss in the phone as it goes down the conveyer

 

 

[Jerry Adams]

“Such a negative view of millennials. It’s us boomers who have really trashed this world, and continue to do so, not the millennials.”

That’s what it means when a millennial says “okay boomer” : )

 

“10 years ago, I would get stopped by other hikers asking for directions”

and the response always is, “you’re almost there, just a little bit further” : )

[jscott]

On another note, I heard on NPR, boomer station of choice, that the average life of an e scooter is one month. So, another environmentally friendly device that is not so friendly after all. I also heard that a very small fleet of huge carrier ships puts our a HUGE amount of co2–I mean, ginormous–and of course these are used to transport scooters and phone parts around the world.
what’s the average life of a smartphone? probably about a year as well.

those electric motor assist bikes seem very cool, however.

[Mike M]

“what’s the average life of a smartphone? probably about a year as well.”

 

can’t speak for others, but my iPhone 6 is still going strong and is creeping up on six years (5.5 years currently)

 

I also got in on the Gaiagps ground floor- was a one shot $9.99 charge; recently it was starting to act up when I was in tracking mode, contacted Gaia and they linked to the very newest version- no charge and told me there would never be a charge :)

[Brad Rogers]

My iPhone 6s is 4.5 years old and still going strong (knocks on wood).  I’ve thought about replacing the battery but other than that I have no complaints.  In that same time period my wife has gone through an iPhone 7 and an iPhone XR she can kill a phone like nobody else.

I always take paper maps and a compass when going off trail, but have discovered a phone GPS can be quite handy in quickly calculating current location especially in inclement weather where visibility is impaired.

[Jerry Adams]

So do you guys notice that the capacity of the battery is less?  Runs a shorter period of time before the battery dies?

I think that current phones have quite a bit more capability than 4 or 5 or 6 years ago so there’s more reason to get a new one.  Phones won’t be as much better 4 or 5 or 6 years from now.

[Brad Rogers]

I think in the Apple world the iPhone XR and 11 do have increased battery life over older phones, but I’m too cheap to buy a $1000 phone.  I used to could go all day on a charge but now I have a charger at work because I need to charge about mid day.   It shows my battery heath at 88% and they don’t recommend changing until 80% but the 88% hasn’t changed in about a year and a half so I’m not sure I trust it.

[Geoff Caplan]

@jscott – “I want to live – so no smart phone for me”.

There are conditions where a good smartphone GPS will significantly improve your life-expectancy:

Quite common in a Scottish winter to be in scenarios where a small navigation error will take you over a lethal cornice..

As I’ve been saying – what’s the point in being dogmatic? Choose the right tool for the job.

[Mike M]

mine has less battery life than when new for sure; it says it’s 90% battery “health”, but I think it lasts less than 90% of what it used to

other than day trips or a single overnighter, I carry a charger

[David Noll]

I think I’m going to keep my 6 year old flip phone and continue to use a compass and maps.

[Geoff Caplan]

Roger

Given that you’re a moderator here let’s see if we can educate you a little about how GPS actually works, so you’re not misinforming people. This is especially important with a safety-related issue.

You emphatically don’t need cell reception to use phone mapping, provided you are using an offline GPS app like ViewRanger or Gaia. Modern phones have enough memory to download and store thousands of square kilometers of mapping, tens of thousands of waypoints, and a lifetime’s worth of routes. No problem at all to do a major thru-hike with everything pre-loaded.

You can use free, community curated Open Source mapping, or if you need more detail you can usually source national and commercial maps for a reasonable cost. In the UK you can lease all the 50k and 25k leisure mapping for £25 a year, covering the whole of Scotland, England and Wales.

A recent phone model will also have a GPS sensor that can lock into signals from the US, European, Russian and Chinese GPS satellite networks, giving comprehensive coverage worldwide. In decent conditions you can locate yourself to within a meter or two, and the only scenario where you might sometimes struggle to get a fix would be in a deep urban or backcountry canyon.

Many mid-to-upmarket phones will also have a barometer sensor which cross-references with the GPS to give you a pretty accurate altitude.

You can get a mini rugged phone with a US Military Spec that will soldier on through wet, heat, cold, dust, impact and vibration at a cost of around 120 grams and $USD 100. This is no rocket-ship, but it does a perfectly decent job of navigation, occasional browsing and phone calls. On any long hike it also allows you to check weather forecasts, avalanche and water reports, coordinate with other hikers and trail angels, book eateries, accommodation and transport, and all kinds of other uses. It surely earns its place on any significant outing.

I love paper maps, but in my posts above I’ve listed a number of scenarios where GPS can be cheaper, lighter, more practical, more accurate, and even life-saving. Or it can simply act as a backup for the odd occasion where you lose a map or hit extreme conditions. When the cost is so modest, a small GPS phone surely has a place in the toolbox for most serious walkers?

[Diane “Piper” Soini]

I resisted getting a smart phone for a long time. Now I have one and I love it.

It comes with a lot of apps when you first get it, most of which I’ve never even opened. To those apps I added Gaia GPS and a tuner app so I can tune my violin/mandolin/ukulele in a pinch if my regular tuner battery is dead.

I saw that there was a built in audio book app that would let me download many hours of free old radio shows.

With Gaia, I was able to create an amazing route of my own design and then with my phone I was able to not get too lost. Last time I got lost with my map and compass. I guess my backcountry skills suck. During the boring parts of my solo trip, I could listen to CBS Mystery Theater. I keep my phone in airplane mode at all times when I’m out there, only now and then checking for service if I need to contact my boyfriend or something, which was great when I came out for my resupply a day early.

Gaia GPS works in airplane mode. I have location services turned off for every app unless I need it turned on, to maintain my privacy and battery power. I also do not find the internet experience on a phone to be very fulfilling so I don’t use it too often for that.

It takes really good pictures and videos, at least as good as any point-and-shoot.

I suppose I don’t get the most out of my phone that I could compared to most people, but for what I do with it, it is worth the money that was spent. It is one of my favorite personal possessions. Seems weird to say that, but it’s true.

[AK Granola]

Although I’m not addicted to my phone, and I don’t let it get in the way of actual human relationships, and it’s not truly essential even for navigation, it is useful. I really like having it as my bird guide, flower guide, some navigation, communication through the inReach mini, star chart, weather reports, camera, and alarm clock. So many uses for so little weight. Still, I really like having a backup on navigation; it has died too many times unexpectedly. The other night I went for a walk with the dog at minus 40F. I took one photo of the moon, and my phone went from 60% battery to 3%, then died utterly, in seconds. Poor thing; it did revive later, as the dog and I did also. While I won’t be camping at minus 40 if I can help it, I just don’t trust it enough to be reliable when I really need it. I will always bring a map, and most of the time, a separate, non-battery-operated, compass. Happy to pack my fears on this one.

[Roger Caffin]

@Geoff
Oh, I understand how a GPS works. I can give a good technical lecture on the details if you wish.
I can also give a good technical lecture on how commercial GPSs have failed under certain conditions, such as when the signals from the first couple of satellites turn out to be reflections off cliffs or similar. Been there, was amused.

No problem at all to do a major thru-hike with everything pre-loaded.
Ah – if you are on a known pre-selected track. But what if your long walk is all off-track through the mountains? A lot of Australian bushwalking is done off-track you see, often surrounded by masking cliffs. Or what if you suddenly decide to change your route, to explore a different area?

you can locate yourself to within a meter or two
Which is cute, but potentially hazardous. You could walk along staring at your phone the whole time, and walk straight into a dead branch or over a small cliff-line. Plenty of that around here. And why bother to go out walking if you are going to stare at your phone the whole time to stay within a metre of your route?

You can get a mini rugged phone with a US Military Spec that will soldier on through wet, heat, cold, dust, impact and vibration at a cost of around 120 grams and $USD 100.
So? Tell me more, please. With the latest iPhones hitting $1,000, some of us might appreciate cheaper alternatives.

On any long hike it also allows you to check weather forecasts, avalanche and water reports, coordinate with other hikers and trail angels, book eateries, accommodation and transport, and all kinds of other uses.
Sounds great, but:
* Checking the weather forecast is not that much use. You are out there anyhow, so you will have to deal with the weather anyhow.
* Avalanche and water reports: we don’t have those here. And who is going to lodge those reports anyhow?
* Coordinate with other hikers? Why would I want to do that? They have their own trips.
* Trail Angels? We don’t have those here. Will one die without them?
* Book eateries: HA! bain’t none around here my friend. You want food, you carry it, and you cook it.

When the cost is so modest, a small GPS phone surely has a place in the toolbox for most serious walkers?
Ah, so the generations before us who never had a GPS were not ‘serious walkers’? Yeah, right.

All good marketing spin, but it ignores the fact that generations of serious walkers have not had GPSs, and that continues today.
Mind, you, I have no objections to anyone carrying whatever electronic goodies they want. HYOH.
But I will continue to point out that one can navigate, accurately and even under extreme conditions, without those electronic goodies. Because we (walkers) have been doing that for decades or even over 100 yrs.

Just a thought to ponder: solar scientists have been suggesting that we are due (or overdue) for a major solar flare. This could knock out many of our communication satellites and GPS satellites, because they are not hardened sufficiently. (They can’t afford the weight of the shielding.) They may also knock out land-based comms towers and even the grid: it has happened before. So what then? Do we all burrow into our caves and wait until everything has been replaced?

Cheers

[Brad P]

you can locate yourself to within a meter or two
Which is cute, but potentially hazardous. You could walk along staring at your phone the whole time, and walk straight into a dead branch or over a small cliff-line. Plenty of that around here. And why bother to go out walking if you are going to stare at your phone the whole time to stay within a metre of your route?

That’s not how you use it.  If you’re concerned about possibly being lost or simply unsure, you stop, check the app on your phone and if you’re not in the right place, plot your way to getting where you need to be.

 

[Mike M]

also when you preload a map- you decide how large an area to download, you can download an entire state if you like

always preload a larger area than what you think you’ll use (it doesn’t take up much space at all) if you change your mind and want to go a different direction, you’re still fine- easy/peasy, even for older gentlemen :)

[W I S N E R !]

“They may also knock out land-based comms towers and even the grid: it has happened before. So what then?”

I thought it was obvious: We form roving gangs, get punk rock hairdos, and fight to the death over the last drops of petrol.

But until then, I suspect I will continue to find my smartphone pretty darn useful.

[Roger Caffin]

you stop, check the app on your phone and if you’re not in the right place
I suspect the bloke with a topo map may be moving a whole lot faster.

But, HYOH.
Cheers

[obx hiker]

OK here’s my question.  Must one have a carrier account to use the phone with Gaia as a gps? After all it works in that capacity just fine without any service whatsoever. The signals are coming from a series of satellites, not from or through your cell service provider. Say you had like an older S-5. Could you unlock it, clear out all the bloat-ware and just use it as a camera and gps? Love that swappable battery!

Obviously I agree about the utility of the device as a tool. I can still drive in a screw with a screwdriver too and the battery never gives out etc etc (but he does get hungry)  But that 20 amp dewalt hammer drill….

I also tend to use what you could call the Will Rietveld approach to gps.  Set a series of waypoints at home on Caltech or whatever, Download to gps device, Gaia , Forerunner 301, Inreach mini or whatever. Print map with said waypoints and then use the gps only when necessary to establish relationship to point on the map.

[Mike M]

^ you definitely don’t need cell coverage, so very possibly it would work w/o having to pay a plan

might contact Gaia- they’re pretty helpful and might have a definitive answer

@Craig – perfect! :)

[HkNewman]

“They may also knock out land-based comms towers and even the grid: it has happened before. So what then

 

Actually happened on the PCT near Edwards AFB area/Red Flag exercises a few years back. The area pretty much got jammed.  Luckily the PCT is very well maintained so it wasn’t a problem for hikers going into the southern Sierra.  Besides military exercises, in the US not sure anything else can jam a phone signal… assuming the bill is paid in full of course.

[Ben C]

Perfect, Craig.

[Sam Farrington]

So please don’t respond to the following with ‘OK Boomer.’  For one thing, I’m not a boomer (won’t say whether too old or too young, because it is a natural human trait to pigeonhole people).  Will just say that I have a lifetime of bushwhacking experience.  Began with the scouts to obtain the basic skills, but it took many more years to learn how to bushwhack well in the backcountry.

Learned that to go off trail, one must be oriented; that is to maintain a mental map of the terrain and know where and in which direction you’re headed.  This can be done with a map and compass, but only after years of practice.   It must be a good compass, that can be trusted, with a declination adjustment, and knowledge that it can be wrong; for example at any place with a name like ‘Red Dirt’ pass.  Most of the compasses sold have no declination adjustment.  There was a good article on BPL about some folks who got waylaid in the Rockies until figuring out declination adjustment.

And it must be a good map.  The first Trails Illustrated maps were OK, but not detailed enough for surefire travel, and then they sold out to National Geographic and the maps soon became worthless.  For serious bushwhacking, only the USGS maps will do. Few want to carry a sheaf of rolled up USGS maps, and copying loses detail, like the very light green shading showing timberlines, and essential for handrailing.  So cut them up into pieces that make a wide swath covering the route, and laminate in plastic so thin that the result folds easily.  Can’t afford equipment to make razor sharp copies – more on that follows.  And forgive me for doubting that anything on a small pixelated screen is going to provide adequate detail.

With years of practice, these tools can be used to keep oriented at all times.  Now comes the rub.  Why not switch to current technology?  Will start with I-phones and their cousins. They are not cheap, and that is only the beginning (did someone say Kindle?).  So at considerable expense of time and money, re-educate  myself?  First of all, why chuck a lifetime of skills and training to embark on an expensive substitute?  And what about its effect on me.  Have watched several long interviews with psychologists on C-Span and PBS who have spoken and written eloquently about how the phones are addictive, and not conducive to emotional and mental health.  The PC is addictive enough – no need to add to it.

But suppose I think, ‘That can’t happen to me, and it is all BS anyway,” then what? I used to make good money and could afford trifles, like my handmade custom kevlar kayak from the late Earl Baldwin weighing only around 30 lbs with reinforcements.  And as time passes, the home maintenance costs multiply, and with aging, one becomes prey for crooked contractors.  Economic survival requires frugality.  Not a time to do away with what works, spend hunks of dough, and begin a lifetime of re-education.  Maybe in the next lifetime, but not in this one.

Am fine with those who navigate with various GPS devices, but only if they have the training and experience to do it safely.  Obviously, that is not always the case, judging from the reports of rescues reported in the local paper.  If there has been a drop in rescues, as reported in an earlier post on this thread, it’s not happening in the White Mountains. Along with a tiny RescueMe PLB, I do carry one of those 3 oz Garmin mini GPS’s, but only to record coordinates to provide to GPS users about routes that are either off trail, or where the Forest Service has abandoned trails and most traces of them have become lost, as has unfortunately been the case all too often.

[Roger Caffin]

@Sam

Laminating works, but I found that A3 waterproof paper for photocopies was better. I fold them in half, to A4, and carry then in a stock A4 plastic sleeve. It can take a bit of practice to select the right thresholds for the copying, but many good photocopiers can do most of that automatically.

And my topo map stays safely at home, to be copied again one day.

Cheers

[Author]

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