Why it’s best not to rely on cellphone navigation when hiking

there seems there are a lot of times that an altimeter would come in really handy- might have to look into a watch that has one
In alpine regions I find an altimeter can often be of greater value than a compass – in reasonable weather anyhow. I can see I am on a spur, but how far up it am I? So yes, I always carry one.

Biased (by careful lab measurements) warning: the altimeters and barometers in watches are great; the so-called ‘compasses’ are useless. Tilt the watch, and North swings somewhere else. Been there, measured that.

Cheers

@pedestrian – you make a fair point. I think there are two issues here.

The first is attitude and competence – someone who has no clue what they are doing and no desire to learn is going to be at risk whether they are carrying a phone or not. I’m not convinced that Google Maps and the like has made this issue significantly worse – I met plenty of woefully unprepared people in the hills long before smartphones came on the scene.

I have an ex-housemate who got himself lost at night on Dartmoor and had to be rescued by ‘copter. Even if he did have mapping on his phone he wouldn’t have known how to use it. He doesn’t have the slightest embarrassment about the incident and seems to view SAR as a taxi service. He declined my offers to teach him navigation and seems to have learned nothing from the experience, so he may well end up in the same situation again. I suspect that there will always be people with this kind of attitude, though better education might reduce the numbers.

The second issue is to help people who do want to learn make informed decisions about what tools to use in different scenarios. That’s what I was trying to address in my post above. Clearly the ideal is someone who is competent in both traditional and GPS navigation and has a clear strategy for choosing the right balance between the two approaches for each trip.

Finally, 100% agree with Roger’s points. Altimeters are a much under-appreciated tool, especially on really steep ground as he says. I still use my lovely old Thommen, which I got off a mate in the ’70s who had taken it up Everest when that still meant something. I’ve just bought a phone with a barometer, so sadly it’s about to be retired. And I would never rely solely on an e-compass – not remotely reliable enough. I carry a traditional baseplate compass on every trip, secured by a lanyard as I’m just about absent-minded enough to lose the thing.

Why would a Kindle make an awesome GPS? All you need is room for the display of two numbers. A watch face would do.

Or do you mean that the larger area of a Kindle would be better at displaying a map? Probably so, but that has little to do with displaying GPS coordinates.

Roger, I’m not using the coordinates. I’m using the GPS to show when I am on the downloaded map. The big Kindle screen would be pretty nice for seeing a big piece of map with your GPS – kind of the best of both worlds, other than the weight.

You know you phone has an altimeter as well, right? (wiping brain matter off of me from some subscribers heads exploding).

ohh… you just exploded my head, thanks a lot

I think a kindle sized phone with GPS and map would be great.  The small size of a phone displayed map is sort of difficult to read, sort of like looking at a map through a straw.

I wonder if they sell a device that’s a phone/GPS/big screen like a kindle

Jerry – there are tablets that can accept a phone SIM, or you can simply use a VoIP service like Skype to call from the web to mobiles and land lines. Most tablets will offer GPS and e-compass – not so sure about a barometer though.

On the down side, tablets are big, heavy and vulnerable, and the big screens are battery hogs.

Unless you’re going on an ad-hoc ramble, I don’t find the small screen on a phone to be a major issue. You simply plan your main route and any possible escape routes in advance on a larger device and load them as tracks onto the phone – then you only need to use the phone for micro-navigation. Rugged phones are smaller, more robust, and have better battery life. And in most situations, there’s nothing preventing you from carrying a map as well if you feel the need.

As with everything in lightweight hiking, it’s all about the right balance of compromises for the project in hand.

yeah, I like the low weight of phone and the display is big enough to be useful

another thing is newer phones have more pixels, more resolution, so there’s enough information on a smaller screen.  My old Garmin 60 had a smaller screen and much less resolution.  I should have switched several years earlier

@Ben

You know you phone has an altimeter as well, right?
Could be a problem there: I don’t own a smart phone.
And where we usually go walking, there is little or no signal anyhow.

Cheers

cell phones don’t require a signal to use the altimeter feature- they use an a barometric sensor and/or a combination barometric sensor and satellite (no need for cell signal for satellite either)

“And where we usually go walking, there is little or no signal anyhow.”

Cell phones can be quite useful without a cell signal: as a GPS/map device, as a compass, as a camera, as a music device, a reading device, a barometer and even, yes, an altimeter, among other things.

Also, the phone works for counting steps regardless of signal (even if GPS isn’t working). I use step count for dead reckoning in flattish places and I’ve found that over any appreciable distance, I get distracted and lose count too often on my own.

All possibly so, but I DO NOT OWN A SMART PHONE.

On the other hand, a lifetime of navigating by map and compass (and the sun) seems to have worked without any batteries. (OK, watch requires one battery. Recent addition.)

Cheers

Yes, we know, you don’t own a smart phone and don’t want to. Bully for you. But many other people do, so some of us find it important to correct your misinformation or lack of information that too often makes you seem to infer incorrect information.

I stubbornly refused to get smartphone for years.  But you save so much weight replacing all those devices doug listed

One month I was out of town and used the old flip phone a bunch.  They charged me some huge amount.  With a smart phone calls and texts are free.  Pissed me off

And some bank wanted to text me a two factor authentication.

Okay, I give up, time to join 21st century and get smart phone

And I was on a trip with doug.  My dedicated gps had the same track and map as his smartphone.

Somehow civilization muddled along for centuries without smartphones. Somehow people managed to find an Italian restaurant without smart phones. No longer. People will die of hunger if smart phones fail. I want to live! so no smart phone for me.

I choose to shed devices. That opens up the world. Hey, ever read a book? I mean, the whole thing?

I used to think dimly of smartphones, until one day reading about Gaiagps on this site.  Hmmm a fully functioning mapping gps in a light, trim package.  Oh wait, it takes good pictures too- so I can leave my camera AND gps behind.  Yeah you can even make phone calls with it too :)

Hey, ever read a book? I mean, the whole thing?

Also, thanks to smart phones, I can take hundreds of books with me when I hike. Now I don’t have to worry that I won’t feel like reading whatever book I brought.

“I choose to shed devices. That opens up the world. Hey, ever read a book? I mean, the whole thing?”

Then why not bring real books when you backpack instead of a Kindle? That’s what I do. I usually pack the book near my phone…

Cheers

so…mjh reads on a phone…which for me is like taking thimbles of water…and meofcourse brings a phone AND a kindle. We’re all different! one thing works for someone and for another, not so much.

some people listen to Beethoven over their crappy devices on $8.00 earbuds.

for decades I only brought a book. But for a few ounces more, the original kindle, with no back light for battery conservation, allows me to bring a huge number of books. so I moved to that.

I never use my kindle at home. Who does? It’s too small and feels sensually deprived. I make compromises when I hike.

I read mostly on the Kindle at home. My house is full, so I don’t buy many books in paper. I only switched from the Kindle to the phone for hiking recently. Phones got bigger, and the Kindle app on my phone now has dark mode, so the phone battery is under less strain. For battery reasons, if I were out for more than overnight in the winter, I would probably take the Kindle. My phone battery drains pretty fast when used in the cold (even if in my hands) and I think the Kindle is lighter than an extra power pack for the phone.

Somehow civilization muddled along for centuries without smartphones. Somehow people managed to find an Italian restaurant without smart phones. No longer. People will die of hunger if smart phones fail. I want to live! so no smart phone for me.

I choose to shed devices. That opens up the world. Hey, ever read a book? I mean, the whole thing?

Same can be said for shoes, cars, planes, running water, fridges, freezers and antibiotics

Be a bit of a stretch to say shunning any of them “opens up the world though”

Don’t know your level of experience with smartphones, but there is the option of using one only when it’s needed ;)

Always brings a smile to my face when people deride technology on the internet :) :)

Millennials say “okay boomer”.

Some day there will museums with paper books in them.  Next to the Gutenberg press.

Mothers will tell their children “the last person to stubbornly refuse to give up books died off in xxxx”

Environmentalist elites will wag their fingers at book readers about being environmentally irresponsible.  “Leave those trees alone rather than cutting them down to make books”.

Oh wait, there’s a resurgence of those scratchy vinyl records with inferior tube amps.  Better to use the “scratchy vinyl record” and “tube amp” filters on a modern electronic music player.

millennial environmentalists will all have died looking at their phone while crossing the street and being hit by a car. “I have a new app!!! Heaven!!!”. Everyone else will be buried in the electronic landfill they’re creating; and choking on the co2 created while manufacturing the love o their life. Lots of shipping worldwide of all the little parts made to assemble these in low paying factories in China. sorry, books are far better for the environment than yearly discarded phones and such.

Of course millennials will insist on being buried with their final device, believing it will be their salvation in the afterlife. They think God will want to have the latest Applephone.

reading Moby Dick on your phone, or anything more than a tweet really, would be a nightmare. But Millennials thinks a headache is just part of the high tech experience and live with ’em.

Such a negative view of millennials. It’s us boomers who have really trashed this world, and continue to do so, not the millennials.