What is happening in the SUL world?

[Roger Caffin]

HERESY!
You are not drinking the Kool-Aid!
:)

Cheers

[Sam Haraldson]

Everybody knows Kool-Aid weighs far too much, Roger.

[MJ H]

Kool-Aid Days is coming up, or about to be canceled. See America this summer. Details here.

[Eric Blumensaadt]

The SUL “movement” has benefited from cottage industries, no doubt. What I’m seeing now is that a few of those “cottage” industries are quite a bit beyond that stage and entering a larger production level while still maintaining their innovation. Trail Designs Caldera Cone stove variations are one of these, Tarptent is another.

On the subject or Dyneema in SUL and UL gear we now see ripstop patterned Dyneema woven in nylon or polyester pack cloth and full on Dyneema sailcloth (its original use) in packs and tents. Spectra or Kevlar threads are also found in tent cords for UL strength.

Beginning with a Western Mountaineering 3 season down mummy 8 years ago, then two successive REI FLASH series UL backpacks to now an Osprey EXOS 58 pack, then a Thermarest Prolite to an REI FLASH insulated (R 3.7) 15 oz. mattress, from a TT Moment DW solo tent to a 2020 Gen. 2 Notch Li solo tent. So I have gradually lightened my load without giving up comfort.

I learned years ago that “camp shoes’ are nice but I’m too poor to hire a llama to carry them, a camp chair, raw vegetables and fruits, a dining fly for rainy days and my favorite IPA.

Like Dan Durston said, “simplify”. As a former EMT/ski patroller I know what IS and IS NOT necessary in a first aid kit so mine is small because I have first aid  skills. Yet I do know a rescue beacon is necessary so I carry a Gen.3 SPOT beacon – and B/C my wife insists upon it.:o)

So no, I’m not SUL but edging toward it – and still learning what things I can get along without. (But TP ain’t one of them!)

 

[Nick Gatel]

The SUL “movement” has benefited from cottage industries, no doubt. What I’m seeing now is that a few of those “cottage” industries are quite a bit beyond that stage and entering a larger production level while still maintaining their innovation. Trail Designs Caldera Cone stove variations are one of these, Tarptent is another.

One of the biggest factors has been newer lightweight materials, such as DCF and Titanium. I don’t agree there has been a lot of innovation. Most of the gear are just refinements or adaptations of things designed from earlier times.

Given that, some items I use are really well done evolution of the art. A few that come to mind, and I use, are the Caldera Cone, the MLD TrailStar, and some of Henry Shires’ tents. Dan McHale has done some incredible design work, but his packs aren’t considered “SUL” by most here.

[M B]

The only effort there was…..innovation if you will, is attempting to get more creature comforts, at low weights.  Most of this is focused on advances in materials.

 

Real SUL…exists….and theres people out there doing it….and not just overnight in good weather.

 

Im not one…i likes my creature comforts.  But I can tell you many things in my pack are unnecessary ……even at 7.5 lb base wt.

 

I ve read and interacted with a guy online with many thousands of miles hiked who has a base weight under 3 lb  for thru hikes.   Take a s2s 2.5 oz pack, tarp, quilt, groundsheet, water bottle…thin pad..small fak..what else do you really need? Really need?….?  At 25+ mpd, dont need much food .

 

 

[Roger Caffin]

>> At 25+ mpd, dont need much food .
Rubbish!
The harder you go, the more fuel you need.
oh well, if you are seriously over-weight and live off your fat for a few days, you might be OK. Not good for your health though.

Now try doing that in bad weather. It’s fine in the Sierra summer in the forests, but if you are traveling, as that guy obviously was not, in high mountains in doubtful weather . . .

Nah, day dreams. And you may be risking the lives of the SAR.

Cheers

[Adam Kilpatrick]

At 25mpd+ on US thru-hike trails, you don’t need to carry much food, as you go through supply towns so quickly. You don’t have to jam in a weeks worth of food if you cover the distance in half the time.

[Jeff McWilliams]

Agree with Roger here.  There comes a point where you’re jeopardizing safety in pursuit of, what?   Some sort of badge of honor?   Don’t put yourself or would be rescuers at risk just so that you can brag about your base weight.  Doing so gives the ultralight community a bad name and causes it to lose credibility, and I see that happening on other social media platforms.  There are folks with a real disdain for the ultralight mindset because they strongly feel it leads to poor decision making and putting people at risk.

 

 

[Ken Thompson]

HYOH

[Monte Masterson]

If you are doing FKT or adventure racing, then sleeping out on a 1/8 inch piece of foam in a bivy with no tarp is fine. Otherwise moderation is best.

[Jeff McWilliams]

I dislike people who use “HYOH” to promote risk inducing behavior or other poor decision making practices, particularly when those behaviors are passed around social media to be copied by others who don’t know any better.

It’s like if a hiker decided to disregard LNT principles and took a huge dump right on the trail.

“Hey, Bob, why did you leave a steaming pile of poop and TP right on the trail? ”

“Hike your own hike, mate!”

Or how about the advice that you shouldn’t go kayaking on open water on a sunny day wearing nothing but shorts and a T-shirt when the water is still 45 degrees. Paddle your own paddle, right?  This stuff happens on the Great Lakes on warm & sunny spring days all the time.  We hear about it on the news when the coast guard has to rescue these people after they capsize, begin succumbing to hyperthermia, and need to be rescued.

Stop using “HYOH” as a rallying cry for acting however you please and promoting that behavior to others.

[M B]

“At 25mpd+ on US thru-hike trails, you don’t need to carry much food, as you go through supply towns so quickly. You don’t have to jam in a weeks worth of food if you cover the distance in half the time.”

 

Exactly

 

Nobodys promoting anything

Dont need Nannys telling people they are putting others at risk either

 

Guy im referring to has hiked more than 20,000 miles.  Hes perfectly comfortable with SUL….real SUL.   Doesnt spend life on internet discussing it.

 

My point….its out there…..it really needs ni further innovation. Neither does ul, anyone can buy a ul full kit that gives nothing up today

 

[Ken Thompson]

OK Jeff

[Ken Thompson]

“My point….its out there…..it really needs ni further innovation. Neither does ul, anyone can buy a ul full kit that gives nothing up today”

Not even hard to do.

[M B]

“Not even hard to do.”

 

Yep

Hence, precipitous drop in posts and traffic here vs. say…2011….

 

Mainstream was able to go UL with wallet

Cottage mfgs built gear for them.

Increasing wt and features to satisfy them

 

 

 

[Roger Caffin]

I agree entirely with HYOH.
But I object to the idea of promoting XSUL to novices who have zero walking experience. That is not couth.

Cheers

[Nick Gatel]

But I object to the idea of promoting XSUL to novices who have zero walking experience.

The trails and backcountry have gotten too crowded over the past 5+ decades. This “XSUL” might be a good way to cull the herd.

;-)

[Roger Caffin]

^^ Snicker!

[Eric Blumensaadt]

“… cul the herd.” Hee, hee

Nick you are such a naughty boy.

[M B]

I dont remember anyone promoting xsul to novices.

 

I think the guy i was referring too hiked a trail with a small childs  tiny “hello kitty” toy backpack once…unless im mixing people up…and that could happen

 

 

[Ken Thompson]

“I dislike people who use “HYOH” to promote risk inducing behavior or other poor decision making practices, particularly when those behaviors are passed around social media to be copied by others who don’t know any better.”

Links please

[Mike M]

If you are doing FKT or adventure racing, then sleeping out on a 1/8 inch piece of foam in a bivy with no tarp is fine. Otherwise moderation is best.

 

I dabble in adventure races and no damn way would I sleep on a 1/8″ of foam :)

[Roger Caffin]

^^ Been there, done that (air mat leaked).
Can’t say I actually slept though.

Cheers

[W I S N E R !]

I’d wager money there’s a correlation between high pack weight and rescues if you could parse out the numbers. I’ve personally seen probably half a dozen people succumb to heatstroke in the Grand Canyon in the name of “being prepared and safe” with massive packs. The SUL crowd is such a minority I doubt it’s statistically significant.

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