This is real alcohol stove performance.

[Stormin]

A short video of real time boil.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=E5vIb4mmY3w

[Greg Mihalik]

Just a heads up if you are new to cone-style stove systems –

Stormin Stoves makes “bespoke” stoves – British for “custom on demand”.

From  Stormin Stoves

“I cannot offer the Stormin Cone for sale in the pictured form, for sale in the USA. Adaptations will have to be made to avoid USA patent infringements, ie. pot support/ suspension.”

The source of “inspiration” for these systems is the Caldera Cone from Trail Designs.

And the “inspiration” for the burner comes from Zelph and his Starlyte burner.

 

 

[Ken Thompson]

Doesn’t the metal tray have an effect on the boil time?

[Brad Rogers]

I love my Caldera Cone. I have been using it since 2008 and it looks like it has been through hell and back (maybe it has) but it still works and I have never seen a reason to get another one. In my opinion, it has the best real world performance of any alcohol stove.

[Stormin]

Sorry to disappoint you Greg , my Cone Stove is unique to me , nobody else inspired this Stove.

http://www.storminstovesystems.co.uk/stormin-cone-stove/

[Stormin]

Ken, a titanium or aluminium baseplate will have the same effect.

[Ryan Smith]

Interesting. I like the pop rivet method of attaching the two pieces together. I think I will copy it. :)

 

[Jeffs Eleven]

Theirs goes: Ding-ding-ding-diggy-dingding,  Ding-ding-ding-diggy-dingding

Mine goes: Ding-ding-ding-diggy-dingding Ding Ding-ding-ding-diggy-dingding

Its not the same

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

I love my Caldera Cone also made by Trail Designs

[DAN-Y/FANCEE FEEST]

Sorry to disappoint you Greg , my Cone Stove is unique to me , nobody else inspired this Stove.

 

Greg, he got all his ideas from my site, bplite.com. He used to hang out there and did some posting while he gathered info and ideas. His design is on my site. He was inspired

[Nick Gatel]

Sorry to disappoint you Greg , my Cone Stove is unique to me , nobody else inspired this Stove.

 

I cannot offer the Stormin Cone for sale in the pictured form, for sale in the USA. Adaptations will have to be made to avoid USA patent infringements, ie. pot support/ suspension.

 

When contradictions exist, check your premises.

 

[Kevin B]

I posted about the potential intellectual property/copyright issues when Stormin first came along many months ago.

If I remember correctly, most posting here laughed me out of the thread…..”alcohol stoves in all forms including cones have been around forever” was the theme of the responses.

I guess the general consensus here and Stormin’s acceptance of the restrictions I posited have done a 180.

[Stormin]

Hey Dan, were talking about a stove here, a unique design which boils 500ml of water with less than 15 ml of ethanol in 3 mins 43secs.

[Mario Caceres]

Rolling Boil in 3’40” for 2 cups of water (that has been on the refrigerator for a little while) is pretty good for an alcohol stove.   I normally get 2 cups of water to boil on my starlyte in about 7 minutes.

Storming, I would be curious of a few things.

1) What is your starting temperature.  Having the water sitting for 15 minutes on your refrigerator is very good, but does not give us the starting temperature.  A simple / inexpensive kitchen thermometer will do.

2) Can you provide more information about the type of fuel used?.

3) Clearly your stove is running quite hot to produce the 3’40”   This is also obvious when you pull the pot out of the cone.  Do you get much sooth on the bottom of your pot?

4) You have a burn out time of a little over 6’20”.  It would be interesting to see the burn out time with the pot left on the cone and let the water boil until alcohol run out.  I think this is what most people do when reporting burnout times.  My guess is that if you do it will be shorter as the thermal feedback will make the alcohol burn even hotter and faster (and dirtier).  15ml of alcohol is pretty good, so if you are interested in boiling water only, perhaps you can use less alcohol?.  It would be interesting to see if using less alcohol would affect your boil time, and what is the minimum alcohol you can get away with to bring water to boil.

Thanks for posting the video.

[Stormin]

Thanks Mario, the video was not made by me, it was posted on Youtube for someone interested in boil times usind my new Cone Stove. When I built and tested these stoves, my boil and efficincy tests were done usind a cone and a 900 ml Alpkit Myti pot. My best results with this combination boiled 500 ml of 58°f water was 5 min 18 secs, using 11ml of ethanol. This result was achieved by filling the stove with 20ml by volume, weighing the stove/fuel,doing the test, then weighing the stove/ <span style=”line-height: 1.8;”>fuel remaining immediately after the boil.</span>

The video uses an Evernew 900 pan, short and wide. This, combined with the new stove and cone seems the ideal combiation for the setup.

 

 

[Mario Caceres]

Thanks Stormin.  I like how you have provided good airflow to your cones.  Lots and good size intakes and exhaust holes.  This also contributes to the rapid boils.  It appears you have intake holes around the whole perimeter of your cone base (most folks only have intake holes on half of their cone bottoms).  This may be OK in calm conditions but present a problem on the field with windy scenarios, so for that you may want to consider using a strip of carbon felt around the intakes holes.  The carbon felt strip shields the stove from wind yet allows enough air for proper combustion.  It will be slower but since this is a removable feature you can use it only when needed.  The carbon felt strip adds very little to the weight as it is only about 1″ tall.

I have learned a lot from folks like Dan and his website. (great discussions about the starlytes and the fancee feast).   Also been quite inspired by Jon Fong, at Flatcatgear, who uses the snap closures on his windscreens with his shared knowledge about dry baking, thermal feedback, etc.  I’ve never seen a Caldera Cone in person, but I have bought some products from Trail Designs and found their customer service excellent.  I do like and use often their “Vari-Vent” windscreen.  The way they operate their intakes inspired me to create a “peek-a-boo” hole in the middle off my DIY conic windscreen, which is very helpful to see what is going on inside my cones.  This may not be needed when doing quick boils of water, but is very helpful when dry baking, in which case you really want to monitor what is going on inside the cone.

I think is very difficult to claim one has something original on alcohol stoves, but are little tweaks to existing designs what makes things progress.

[Stormin]

Mario, the intake holes on the lower perimeter only cover 2/3rds of the cone, the facet opposite the handles is blank and faces into prevailing winds.

[Kevin B]

I’ve found in my field experience with hot-running (very fast boil times indoors, <4 minute) alcohol stoves, mostly from David Gardner’s  G.O.L.D. Designs using both his heine cans and a trail designs 1300 cone that they were less than ideal in real backpacking conditions.  Namely the breezy conditions I usually encounter in the 4 corners region.  More times than not I was unable to shield wind on the cone and the wind fueled the stove to produce much longer flames (6-8″) dancing erratically around the pot and up above the sides. Thermal feedback in the td cone was crazy.  With both pot styles inefficiency led to much much greater fuel consumption than predicted by ideal conditions testing.  Real world effect was that I’d have incomplete (non) boils, have to settle for that, or wait for stove to cool and refuel/reburn.(I FBC at 4000′ to 11000′, so need boil for maximum water temp for certain recipes)

Eventually I decided that the GOLD flamethrower stoves were a neat trick to show UL newbs at our cabin, but the set-and-forget consistent performance of the 12-10 and Starlyte are what I use in real world conditions when I want hot food and minimal weight. (Edit: brs3000 I just got may change everything for me going forward)

[Stormin]

Another test by Dave Vaughan.BRS 300 v Caldera Keg v Stormin Stove System.

https://youtu.be/0m9KkOKaEYE

[Matthew / BPL]

I’d be interested in seeing a video showing performance outdoors, in the wind.

[Thomas Willard]

I’m with Matthew. Let’s see some backcountry testing. As my buddy who’s new to backpacking exclaimed the other weekend: “those boil times sure do change in the woods!”  :)

[Ken Thompson]

And at some altitude couldn’t hurt either.

[Gary Dunckel]

There are several factors that enter into the efficiency of most any stove. Most noteworthy are the following:

1. Ambient temperature
2. Altitude
3. The presence/absence of a breeze or wind
4. The starting temperature of the water
5. The design of the wind screen
6. The particular fuel brand

Even when I do several tests of a given stove and fuel type, under identical conditions, I will usually get slightly different results. I simply attribute this to karma and let it go at that.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

• Ambient temperature – Depends. If you use a heat shield, that will reduce heat loss to the wet/cold ground. Alcohol stoves are +50% efficient so the excess heat is going to heat up the surrounding area quickly. Windscreens temperature can get to +800 F. Just one look at the discoloration of Titanium or Stainless Steel is a tell tale sign. A really cold temperature may delay the time that system reaching steady state temperature but not have much of impact on the efficiency. The largest mass to heat up will be the water.
• Altitude – Yes, at higher altitude, the pressure is less. In general the nitrogen/oxygen ratio is the same, however; the absolute amount of oxygen is less and this can change the burn rate. The confounding factor is at lower pressure, the boiling point drops as well. At 7,500’ the boiling point drops to 198 F. In some cases, stove designs are affected by altitude, but if that were the case it is not a very good stove and the design would probably develop a bad reputation.
• The presence/absence of a breeze or wind – This is true. If you can set up your shelter to minimize wind, you can do the same for your kitchen
• The starting temperature of the water – True as well but predictable. If you have a stove that can boil 2 cup of 70 F water using 15 ml, then you need to add about 1 ml for every 10 F drop. So for ice cold water, you need to add about 4 more ml. It’s just physics.  Of course, this assumes that you accurately measure out your fuel.
• The design of the wind screen – Absolutely true
• The particular fuel brand – For denatured alcohol less that you think. I have had a few batches of “weird” HEET and a few bottles of +90% ethanol that burned weird but in general, not a significant difference.My recommendation is that if you want to get reliable performance in the field, do the following:
  Use a heat shield
  Set up your kitchen in a wind shielded area
  Know how much water you are using and estimate the water temperature
  Know how much fuel you are using

I think that once you have a good understanding of how your cooking system works, it is surprisingly repeatable.   My 2 cents

[Gary Dunckel]

Jon, that’s a good, detailed summary. I have two questions of you. First, do you not assume that the speed of boil enters into the efficiency equation? Secondly, what do you think that the optimal alcohol stove-to-pot distance should be. I’ve operated under the assumption that it is 1.0 inches. But Dan’s Fancee Feest is .75″, and his daughter told me that he told her it should be 1.5″. Do you think that there’s an acceptable range where things work out just as well? I’d like to know your learned opinion on that, Jon.

[Author]

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