Philmont Adult Advisor Gear List Example – 11.5 pound base weight

FYI – If you right click on the above packing list image and select “open image in new tab” it will be much easier to read.

Nice list. Agree about shoes. I dumped my heavy Vasque shoes this year for TopoAthletics. As I’ve aged trail comfort vs weight has come into play more, e.g. Helinox 1 lb chair is in my pack now.

Yeah, I had our whole crew use Smartwater bottles. Adult leaders from other troop commented on how it was a good idea.

Lots of people are still stuck in olden times and think you need heavy boots. I love the comfort of my Altras, but I might try Topos to see if they’re more durable.

At Ponil, they fill your mug with root beer. Larger mug, more root beer.

The bulk of Philmont gear and food is worse than the weight.

“but I might try Topos to see if they’re more durable.”

Mine developed holes at the sides of the big toe pretty easily. Still using them though.

Rob,

What would be your suggestions on cutting the weight and bulk on Philmont crew gear?  A lot of the crew gear is heavy and bulky including the cooking/dish washing pots. I am planning on bringing a silnylon tarp(s) instead of the Philmont issued version for example.

Our Scout Troop/Venture Crew have a Philmont trek scheduled for next June.

We can’t really do much about the Philmont food besides reducing the plastic bags that the food comes in.  Suggestions or ideas?

Thank you very much.

James,

There are many good threads here in the Philmont section with ideas on how to cut down bulk and weight.  Here is my review of out gear from last year that might help.

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/philmont-gear-review/

The Philpots are the biggest offenders in the bulk category. If you look through this site, you’ll find some people manage with just one pot. This will require both that your crew comes in fully ready and practiced in doing it and a ranger willing to let you. Remember that it’s their place and their rules. You’re a guest.

If you have a full crew and lots of rain, that tarp I mentioned is a bit small. For us, it was fine.

Fozzils Bowls make great crew gear rather than having each person with his own bowl. They’re light, cheap and pack flat. You can easily lick them “clean” which makes the cleanup process quicker.

Philmont’s requirements make it tough to go compact and light with crew gear. You’ll find a lot can be done with personal gear, primarily not bringing duplicate, unnecessary stuff. Many scouts have very bulky sleeping bags. It’s understandable that parents don’t want to buy an expensive down bag. Shop the sales and you can find good options. My problem was that parents wouldn’t do that. Even when I’d email them the sales, most ignored it.

Check this site for some thrifty options.

http://frugalhiker.blogspot.com/

Crew gear is a whole other monster, but here are our thoughts/suggestions.

PHILMONT ISSUED:

Food – Just accept that Philmont food is bulky.  Some crews take the time to immediately sit down and go through all the bags they get issued at base camp and take out what they know they won’t want and then re-seal each bag.  This is an option, but it is generally frowned upon by Philmont.  This is a quick way to tick off your ranger.  :)

Dining Fly & Poles – Pass on the Philmont issued one. Bring your own one that uses trekking poles. We use a large (10’x10’) Sea to Summit Escapist Tarp (15.5 oz) and a couple of trekking poles. This has worked very well for us over the past couple seasons.

Cooking Pots – Just take the two 8 qt cooking pots that Philmont provides. Leave all the other stuff in your locker at base camp. One pot for cooking and one for washing. Yes, these are bulky, but the newer ones they have now are not all that heavy. Yes, there are lighter ways to do crew cooking, but this is the Philmont method and often it is just easier to go along with it than try to argue and fight about it.

1 Large Cooking Spoon – Use what Philmont provides. It works.

Hot Pot Tongs – Use what Philmont provides. These are actually really good hot pot tongs. The BSA used to make great ones that they stopped making for some reason.

Plastic Trash Bags – Use what Philmont provides.

Salt Pepper – We usually skip these and bring whatever spices the crew wants.

Water Purifier Tablets (Micropur) – Use what Philmont provides. Micropur works great. No need to bring any other water purifiers.

Bear Rope & Bear Bags – Use what Philmont provides. Not the lightest way to do things, but Philmont has been cracking down on people trying to come up with other options. Just easier to go along with what they want and use what they provide.

Plastic Strainer / Rubber Scraper – Use what Philmont provides. They work.

Camp Suds – Use what Philmont provides. Maybe bring a smaller squeeze container to put some in. You won’t need all that Philmont provides, or at least, you shouldn’t need it all.

Matches – Just bring a couple lighters instead.

Toilet Paper – Use what Philmont provides. Don’t take your own as what you bring may be scented.

CREW BRINGS WITH THEM:

Sewing Kit – We take a Zpacks sewing repair kit (0.35 oz). It has worked well for us.

Compass – You only need 2 or 3 compasses for the crew. No need for each person to have one.

Maps – Have at least two. You can just buy the latest version of North or South country when you arrive.

Rope – We bring 100 feet (two 50ft sections) of Zpacks 1.3mm Dyneema Z-line cord. Each 50-foot section only weighs 0.74 oz. It is strong cord that can be used for a variety of things. It has a high strength to weight ratio, grips well, and doesn’t stretch. It is also a bright high-viz yellow, so easy to see even at night.

Water Container – We take two 6-liter MSR DromLite bags. Each one weighs about 6 ounces, but they are tough and work well. Also, easy to purify water in if your crew decides to do that method. I personally prefer to purify in individual water containers though. That way each person takes responsibility for their own water supply and water purification.

Backpacking stove – Either canister or white gas stoves will work. Personal preference. We take two MSR Whisprerlites. Having two of the same stove is important, not only so you have a backup, but also you can cannibalize parts to make one functional one if they both go down for some reason.

Fuel Bottle – We bring two 20 oz MSR fuel bottles.

First Aid Kit – Make your own kit. The store-bought ones are heavy and have many things you don’t need and usually don’t have enough of the stuff you do need. Having enough Imodium is key. Philmont food can mess some people up. :)

Duct Tape – Just pick up a pack of the SOL duct tape. Package comes with two small compact rolls. We usually only take one of them. Weighs very little.

Spices – Up to the crew. Some don’t want any, some need lots.

Suncreen – We don’t consider this crew gear. Each person brings what works for them. Everyone is different in what their skin needs.

Insect Repellent – Don’t usually need any, however we bring a very small bottle (1 fl oz) of Natrapel just in case.

Water Purifiers/Filters – Don’t need. Use the micropur tablets provided by Philmont.

Multi-Tool – Leatherman Style CS Multitool. Light (1.5 ounces), tough, and has scissors which is nice to have.

Trowel/Shovel – We carry “The Duece” backcountry trowel. I think it is made my The Tent Lab. It weighs next to nothing (0.5 ounces) and works well. One per crew.

Carabiner – We use the Petzl Attache 3D Screw-Lock Carabiner. Light and strong. We carry two just in case one gets lost or damaged.

We chose to spread out the water capacity over the whole crew rather than make 2 crew members have to carry a heavy water load. We all had five 1 liter Smartwater bottles and were never short on water. Fortunately, we had no dry camps.

Our 6 quart pots saved space over Philmont’s 8 quart and worked fine.

Brad – After reading your post I realized that I had typed the wrong info under cooking pots.  Sadly can’t edit it.  I asked some of my previous fellow trekkers and it turns out we have used one 8qt and one 6qt the last few times (not two 8qts as I typed in my post above). Both were Philmont issue. If we do end up heading out on our private trek this October, I am going to request two of their 6qt pots to see how that works out. As it is the off season and a private trek, they are much more easy going about crew stuff. I’ll see what we can dig up in their store room.

@ Rob

I find the list hard to read but appears that there is no shelter on it.

My packing style is to not use stuff sacks or dry bags but just stuff everything into my pack lined with a nylofume pack liner.  Sometimes in winter when I expect very wet snow, I might put my sleeping bag into a large mylar turkey basting bag. You have 5 or 6 dry bags for various items plus a pack cover which seems overly redundant..

Cheers

Bruce – If you right click on the packing list, which is an image, and select “open image in new tab” it will be much easier to read.  There are unfortunate limitations on this forum for attaching things.

My shelter is the first line item.  I use a Zpacks Altaplex.

I have used both a pack liner and dry bags.  For organizational purposes I prefer to use the dry bags.  Just a personal preference.  The weight the dry bags add is pretty negligible.

Rob,

Thanks for sharing your pack list. I realize this is an older post, but am hoping you can share your experience with the GG Mariposa? Specifically, how well the pack fit all bulky the Philmont gear and food, and how well it carried the associated additional weight?

I ask because am looking for a new pack and we have a 2023 trek scheduled (1st time!). The GG, HMG 3400, and a few others are at the top of my list. My base weight (with hammock) is 15-16lbs now (light, not ultralight). I plan to be around 12 lbs after going to ground and dialing in my kit a bit more, but still concerned about but am concerned about the volume and weight.

Any information you, or others who have used similar volume (60L) packs with max 35-40lb carries, is greatly appreciated!

Cecil,

I have been very pleased with my GG Mariposa. I have used it on wide variety of trips, from a 5-day adventure in Isle Royale, to multiple Philmont treks in summer, autumn, and winter. I have never found it to be too small for what I need. It even worked well for my recent winter trek out at Philmont carrying a full compliment of winter gear, which included a -25 deg FF bag.

A couple other adults that I hike with have also since switched over to the GG Mariposa and their experiences have been similar to mine.

One thing to note is you mentioned a hammock and I just wanted to let you know that this is one item that is not permitted at Philmont. The will require a tent (no bivy or hammock allowed). You may already know this, but wanted to mention it just in case.

If you like, I can send you a more updated gear list. I have one for summer, autumn, and winter treks. My lists always seem to be evolving. I know I did chase the sub-10 pound base weight goal, and achieved it, but quickly realized it wasn’t comfortable or much fun. I have now settled around the 13 pound base weight for a Philmont summer trek and that seems to work well for me. A good balance between comfort and weight. I can also send you a write-up I did on crew gear that several crews have used to plan and prep. Just message me with your email and I can send over my lists.

Rob

I have recently been tapped to lead a trip July 23-30, 2023. No experience with Philmont, but everyone’s posts on the site have been very helpful. Our troop has not been to Philmont in many years. Enough that no adult currently involved remembers a trip. Although we have found pictures of trips decades ago. Not having previous first hand experience, I was wondering about two things at the moment:

Someone mentioned lightweight running gaiters to keep feel clean in running shoes. How helpful? I just want to get an idea before I start talking about them. I know, a rather small item. But on a multi-day trek, it can be rather helpful in the right, or wrong, terrain.

I see the predominant recommendation is for 20F sleeping bag. But then I see reports of people going in all different seasons. I assume that the low nighttime temperatures are rather different in July than in November… Or being from the Northeast, I could be wrong. Would you say a 20F is the recommendation in July-August, or would a 30F or 40F be more like it for folks that do not sleep particularly warm or cold?

Thank you for your help!

Iago,

Philmont is a great experience and I am sure you will have a lot of fun. Please keep in mind that Philmont has some very specific ways of doing things, mostly related to sleeping arrangements, cooking methods, and food storage/protection. Their methods differ from what most people do on non-Philmont trips, but are understandable given that there are over 20,000 scouts going through Philmont in 2.5 months. Read all of the information Philmont provides and I can also send you a write-up I did on crew gear that may be helpful. Just send me a message with your email and I will send it over.

In regard to shoes, I made the switch from hiking boots to trail runners after a trek in 2014 and I am very glad that I did. I personally use a pair of Hoka One One Challenger ATR5 shoes. They are not waterproof, but I found during summer treks that I preferred having a well ventilated shoe over a waterproof shoe. Things dry quickly out there and I have never had an issue with my setup. I do highly recommend a set of ankle gaiters if you go with trail runners. I personally use a pair of the old vertice ankle gaiters from Zpacks. I think they recently updated the fabric to robic to be more durable, but I have no personal experience with this new version.

For the sleeping bag, I would agree that 20F is a good temp. Keep in mind that most 20F bags are really only comfortable down to about 30F unless you are a hot sleeper. During the summer months you will routinely get temps into the low 30’s at night in the backcountry. Having a sleeping pad with an R value above 3 is also important. It will seem weird when you are sweating to death in the baking heat at base camp in the middle of the summer, but once you get into the backcountry and into higher elevation, you will appreciate the warmth on some of those nights. For summer treks I personally use a Zpacks 20F Classic Sleeping Bag in Medium/Standard. It comes in at just under 19oz and has kept me plenty warm on the cold nights and it can be unzipped and basically turned into a quilt on the warmer nights. Very versatile.

Hope this info helps.

Rob

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Rob. I appreciate it.

It’s good to hear that you (and others you convinced to switch!) have been pleased with the pack for your treks, and that the volume and 30-40 max carry have worked well.

Yes, I know that I will have to go to ground and slum it in a tent. ;) While I am going to miss the comfort of my hammock during shakedown hikes over the next year, the ban is for good reason given the amount of traffic on trail at PSR. On the upside, it gives me an excuse to buy a new tent! I’d really like to snag a xmid 1p at the next drop, but am looking into alternatives as supply is going to be limited for a while.

I’ll PM you for your list – thank you for offering. My target base weight is around the same as you. I could target a lighter base weight, but I want to enjoy my trek and plan on a few luxuries like an adult leader stove for morning coffee and a camp chair at night.

Cecil

Thank you, Rob. I sent you a PM.

Iago – Summer 2023 will be my first trek at PSR as well. Like you, I am gathering as much information as I can.

I am also in camp trail runners, currently in Altra Lone Peak. Even in the south (Alabama, definitely not arid!), I generally don’t worry about getting my feet wet as the wool socks keep me comfortable and warm while they dry out while we hike.

Rob – thanks for the feedback regarding gators. I usually don’t use them , but may consider them for out west.

Also, good to know that you recommend a 20 degree bag. I was thinking about a 30-40 degree quilt to save some weight, but may now stick with my 20 degree Hammock Gear Burrow quilt (24oz) that is comfortable into the 20s and has been good in the teens with mid-weight base layers.

My son appropriated my 20F EE Enigma, so I need to start saving for a new quilt. I have a 40F Burrow, and it is an outstanding quilt. I have recommended their Econ line as a fantastic quality, value to some quilt curious parents, and they have been very happy.

I have two sons who will be in our crew. One definitely needs to update his bag. I like the idea of him ‘appropriating my quilt’ so that I get the new gear!

I made a similar recommendations to parents regarding the Burrow. For only a few dollars more than something like a Kelty Cosmic, I think the Burrow is a much higher quality piece of kit (better down, truer 20 degree comfort rating, half the weight). Plus, they often run 15% discounts like now.

I was thinking about reaching out to them to see if they might give a steeper discount with a group order. We have my troop’s crew, our linked girl troop’s crew, and two council crew’s going in 2023. With proper discount (maybe equivalent to their 20% holiday discounts, or 25% discount with their complete hammock kits), it might be a pretty good sized order. Has anyone tried this approach with Hammock Gear or other companies?  Iago, do you think any in your crew would be interested if it were to work?

I will check around with my Troop to see if anyone is interested in bags. We just got a bunch of crossovers. I think the current folks are sort of set. And most of them look at quilts with disdain… A couple of adult hammockers were curious about my top quilt and underquilt setups and they followed through getting HG Econ stuff. They are super happy. We have a lot current scouts that use hammocks, but they are all set for insulation.

But I hear one particular group of crossovers are hammockers because their leader is too. Next week is our school vacation, so our next meeting will be the last Thursday of the month… I will ask. But I am assuming that since they have been camping up to this point, they may be all set.

Rob P – were you there in ’97? I was a ranger that year. Incredible summer!

Love that you make it back so often.

Chris K – No, I wasn’t able to head back out in ’97. I did get rehired to be a ranger again, but had to decline as I was in grad school at the time and my professor said it would be better to stay at the university and work on my thesis project. Turns out that was a bunch of crap and he just wanted cheap/free labor for his research projects.

Since you worked there, you are eligible to do treks with the Philmont Staff Association. They have treks in the summer and autumn each year. If you have a group of people, you can also do a private trek in the off season. If you are interested in some info on how to do any of this just let me know.

The trails at Philmont are either very dusty of very muddy. Gaiters are very good for keeping your socks, feet, and the insides of your footwear cleaner.

Elevations at Philmont range from 6,700 to 12,440 feet. 20°F sleeping bags are recommended because some camps are above 10,000 feet and when the sun goes down so does the thermometer. Waters bottles may freeze at night at Mt Phillips camp at 1,742 feet.

“Philmont should be enjoyed, not endured.” Moonshine