New Articles

[James Marco]

Well, the last article was published on February 14. Hardly three months, three weeks is closer to it.

I too worked as a programmer/software engineer since 1990 or so. I build several web sites for NYPA,  Lockheed, a couple other private companies and Cornell University. I got so I really hated to do web work. Almost as much as I hated all the write-ups, whitepapers and reports relating to the web development. I worked on the C++ project as part of my masters thesis in school, MUCH easier. A simple permission problem is really far from simple.

I am glad you understand the multiple headaches involved with ad hoc web development. This site is such an entity. Add-ons to add-ons that were added on… later dropped for a new system. Well it is new system to BPL.

In one case, it took over a year to figure out why things were always overwritten on the 18th of the month. After reading a million lines of code, the simple hard coded debug test someone had written in turned out to be overwriting the old data with incoming data because the “DebugThis” flag was set in an obscure include file. This was a YEAR after the bug was discovered and it took me two weeks of 64hours a week to find it. I will give them the same year to debug this site. I know the work and will stick by them while the work proceeds.

[Ken Thompson]

Well hopefully BPL will move to the new, new site before a year is up.

[Stephen M]

As a short term measure a Pdf of the articles could be emailed to users.

[Roger Caffin]

Any of you web professionals want to email [email protected] to offer your services? I think ‘free’ might be a good selling point.
Cheers

[Stephen M]

Good call Roger.

[Matthew / BPL]

My experience with free is that you usually get what you pay for. I advise being cautious with asking for free help with your business.

Or maybe this a community endeavor now? I’m confused if this is a business or a community. If we are making that transition then it might be good to be clear about that.

[Ken Thompson]

All the offers for free help in the past fell on deaf ears. Just sayin’

[Mitchell Ebbott]

James, I’ll concede that not all permissions issues can be expected to be resolved in a short time. The real sticking point for me is the complete lack of communication. Until I saw this thread and Roger’s response, I simply thought this was the new normal and BPL was going to stop publishing articles regularly.

If Ryan wants to ask for help, Ryan should ask for help. But that would invovle communicating with his paying customers, which he seems repeatedly incapable of doing.

[James Marco]

Mitchell, It doesn’t really bother me. I paid for a membership. I do NOT own the placeNor is there any advantage except if you like to be informed. If my car breaks, what should I do? Fix it myself? Take it to a mechanic?  It don’t matter because I am responsible for it. To say I should be entitled to be involved in the everyday management because I am a member is nonsense. I do not own it, nor, even have I ever purchased the right to do anything except read articles. Just like a magazine. Yup, a few went out of business while I was holding subscriptions. It happens, but I did not have to pick up their debt. I was out a 20 dollar bill.

I do not feel Ryan owes me anything after many years of membership. It has been a fair trade.

[Matthew / BPL]

See I paid because I find the interactions on the forum worth the price of subscription. The articles have been a useful benefit from time to time but it’s the community I’m after. It’s not a side benefit or a distraction for me.

[Ken Thompson]

Membership benefits aside, we’re a curious lot. Communication from Ryan to the forum community has always been poor. Ryan’s last post was Feb 6th. And what about the other admins? You can’t tell me that only Roger is able to post in the forums. This weekend is the Winter Skills seminar/trip in Bozeman so I would guess we will go at least another week without hearing from him.

[Mitchell Ebbott]

I do NOT own the placeNor is there any advantage except if you like to be informed. If my car breaks, what should I do? Fix it myself? Take it to a mechanic?  It don’t matter because I am responsible for it.

If it’s your personal vehicle, sure. But if you’re running a shuttle service, you should probably tell your clients that you’re not going to make it.

And I’m not asking for my money back. All I said was that unless BPL demonstrates that it values its members, I won’t be giving them any more of my money. As a lifetime subscriber, your costs are sunk, so I can see how you would view things differently.

It’s not just this, by the way. Communication from BPL has always been sub-par. The “Learn to Packraft” kickstarter stands out as a prime example—people paid between $50 and $200 for a DVD that had an advertised ship date in 2014, and it never materialized. Years after that date has passed the purchasers still haven’t heard so much as an apology (or even an excuse, for that matter). This all combines to paint the picture that Jordan doesn’t respect BPL’s membership.

I’m happy to be proven wrong on this, but actions speak louder that words and so far we’ve gotten neither.

[BlackHatGuy]

I think, perhaps, a couple of FWIW points.

— I guess I could be considered a long-time subscriber now, and Ryan’s lackluster communication to BPL members about the site – and (valid) complaints about it – have been the norm since I’ve been on the site. It isn’t something new. Plenty of forum posts about it over the years I’ve been a member.

— Going back on ‘promises’ isn’t something new either. Aside from the Packrafting DVDs, there were a number of ‘promises’ made to MLIFE members when they ponied up $100, a number of which never came to pass. Some of those promises remained on the subscription page long after it became clear they wouldn’t be honored.

— If I remember one member’s post correctly, the move to this new site wasn’t done because members had been clamoring for an update to the site, but rather because the old BPL server was shutting down or something similar, so the changeover was done in haste, not a ‘planned’ event. It’s really no wonder that there have been the problems encountered. (Happy to be corrected if I’m wrong).

— One really silly thing, IMO, is that Ryan has sent a couple of updates to MLIFE members, which we’ve been asked not to share. Nothing he’s told us is earth shattering or even, really, all that necessary to keep ‘secret.’ I assume, and it’s only an assumption, that this is done to make MLIFE members feel like they’re getting something for being MLIFE members, but, again, IMO, I think he’d be better served to let everyone in on these updates, not just MLIFE members. I think that many MLIFE members feel as I do – I don’t much care any more for any of the other promised MLIFE benefits, I’ve gotten more than my money’s worth. I’m here for the community (which means the forums) only.

— Because of what I’ve said above, I long ago came to the conclusion that complaining in these forums rarely bears any fruit, so it seems a waste of time. I agree with Nick, it’s just an internet site. If coming here is more of a negative than a positive, you should stop coming here because it’s just not worth being upset or angry or even all that disappointed. I’m really not trying to be pissy by saying that, I just think life’s too short to get too upset over an internet site. Been there, done that.

[Simon Kenton]

Once again, Doug says it best. Eloquently and succinctly surmises my feelings on the subject without being inflammatory.

 

Doug, do you give life lessons? I’d sign up for your course :)

[Jerry Adams]

Doug now has plenty of spare time to give life lessons : )

“…I just think life’s too short to get too upset over an internet site…”

+1

[BlackHatGuy]

“do you give life lessons?”

Everything I need to know I learned by listening to Mavis Staples records. :-)

[Mitchell Ebbott]

Well said Doug, thanks.

Just to clarify my concerns, it really isn’t about whether coming here is more of a negative or a positive. I’d say it’s still definitely a positive—the community is great, and the writers here produce content unlike anything else I’ve found.

My problem isn’t that I don’t see the value in BPL. It’s that renewing my subscription feels like rewarding bad behavior. It’s not even really about the article shortage—that served more as a reminder of the broader and earlier problem. The fact that BPL’s founder fleeced its members for over $30,000 is the real concern, and ever since I found out about that I’ve really started to question whether it’s ethical to send more money in his direction.

You’re absolutely right that life is too short to get emotionally invested in a website. I’ve seen plenty of internet communities come and go, and every time there’s a lament over how things aren’t how they were back in the “good old days.” But when money is involved, especially in such large amounts, it’s a different story. That’s why I feel the need to post about this, rather than simply let my membership lapse in silence.

[BlackHatGuy]

‘That’s why I feel the need to post about this, rather than simply let my membership lapse in silence.”

I agree with you Mitchell, and understand your quandary. I readily acknowledge it’s easier for me since I no longer have to make a decision about supporting BPL. But if faced with a yearly subscription decision, I think I’d choose the $4.99/yr option. Of course, I think I’m a bit different than probably most people on here. I’m not a backpacker, I’m a guy who occasionally backpacks. I’m not that interested in the articles or the minutiae of backpacking, I’ve read very few articles over my years here and wouldn’t miss it if I couldn’t read them anymore. But I would miss the opportunity to ‘chat’ via the forums with friends I’ve made.

But I’d continue using an ad and tracker blocker.

Edit to add: I checked out that Alpine Science site that Matthew King mentioned. Nice site, worth a visit. Though he does denigrate the “Old Guard” folks here, of which I think I’m one, who post a lot. So I guess I’m not that welcome there. Denigrating any part of your intended audience is a strange way to build your base. :-)

[Ken Thompson]

The value of BPL is in the members that post in the forums. BPL the business, online magazine, what  have you merely give us a place to interact. The occasional quality articles are a bonus. I think it’s been like that far longer than it hasn’t. I have met so many people with such diverse backgrounds here. Even better, I have met over a hundred of you at GGGs through the years. Hiked with a bunch and have a few of you that I consider to be friends. Those few have made a real difference in my life. All thanks to the fact that BPL is here. Money well spent, RJ’s cheesiness aside.  I had my freak out/meltdown a few years back and it accomplished only a raise in blood pressure.

Let us not forget that this version of BPL is temporary. I would rather see effort put into moving to a proper platform than try to fix all, and wow there are plenty, of issues with this version.  Subscription extensions would be a great gesture. As would more frequent updates as to what is going on behind the scene.

I hope some of you are having a great weekend outside this weekend while the rest of us mind the store.

[Matt Orr]

“The fact that BPL’s founder fleeced its members for over $30,000 is the real concern”

I’m new to the forum of sorts, spent a little time a few years ago and just came back. The “Fleecing” statement above really concerns me a heck of a lot more than new articles or slow load times. How is he able to still operate if he technically still owes people either a product or at the least a refund?
He obviously takes us all for a fool.

If that is substantiated I will not renew my membership, even if it is $4.99 a year. Its the principle.

[Gabe P]

I’ve really enjoyed the articles over the years. Some of them have been really helpful and interesting, and so I’d very much like to know if we’re looking at a six month hiatus, or if we’ll be seeing new articles soon. My hope is for the latter.

[Jerry Adams]

” It’s that renewing my subscription feels like rewarding bad behavior.”

mlife – then you will have that feeling just that once, but not again : )

I wrote an article to get my mlife membership, but labor = money

[BlackHatGuy]

“mlife – then you will have that feeling just that once, but not again : )”

No such thing anymore.

[Mitchell Ebbott]

Matt, I wasn’t one of the backers, but here’s where you can find out about the pack rafting DVD fiasco.

Original Kickstarter page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/backpackinglight/packrafting-documentary-learn-to-packraft-video-se/description

No updates sent to backers since December 2013.

And the last thread about it that I could find, indicating that backers had pretty much given up on getting what they paid for: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/95267/page/2/#comments

 

[Matt Orr]

From the Kickstarter page Terms of Use.

”A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward.
Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.”

Sounds like a refund is due.

[Author]

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