Lineloc Alternative
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Hi Sam
It annoyed me that I could not find the Chinese cleats I did buy for comparison, so I went on a search through my ebay purchase history. It turned out that i was using the wrong ebay search string! Yeah, driving the ebay search option requires some skill, plus the ability to think in Chinglish. Anyhow, the right ebay search string is
“guy line rope tightner”Yes, I KNOW the spelling is wrong, but that is the secret to success. If you search for “guy line rope tightener” you get hordes of hits, but most of them are not worth a crumpet. You need the faulty spelling because that is what the original Chinese mfr of these cleats used.
Anyhow, 20 off imitation CL266 for US$5 with free shipping. Try some today! Btw, you want the Small size, not the Large size.
Now, what size cord? These ones will not grip on the really thin cord at the bottom end of the CL266 range, but:
Light bricklayers line (<0.8 mm): slips
1.0 mm soft cord: grips, sort of, but I am not sure I would trust it
1.0 mm solid cord: OK I think
2.5 mm braided cord: grips very well, but you may have trouble getting a second cord (attaching to the tent) through the same hole in the cleat. I managed to get light bricklayers line through, with some care.
3 x 1.2 mm flat braided climbing gear cord: OK provided you got it into the cleat sideways (1.2 mm). The 3 mm width would not even fit.Some 1.5 – 2.0 mm nylon braided cord with a good core would be fine.
Now, the comment re the 2.5 mm cord is for how I use the cleats: attached to the tent. But if you want to use the cleat in the more common conventional way, thus, no problem.
But I don’t think you will get a hard-core 3 mm cord into the cleat. A soft-core version, maybe, but no-one needs a guy rope that strong!
Btw, I find that a loop of bricklayers cord is more than sufficient to attach the cleat to the tent pole. It’s a UL tent, for heavens sake, not a high wire under a Big Top!
HTH
CheersRoger, re: “many companies insist on having a lump at the end of the pole foot – I have no idea why.”
This is not a curse from history; but rather, from the dreaded “pop-ups.” When pitching a pop-up, it is often difficult to keep a pole end in its grommet while setting other pole ends in their grommets. The knob on the end of the pole tip makes it less likely that the pole end will pull out after being set in a grommet hole. If there are several such holes for pole ends, you could create a great Laurel & Hardy routine about pitching a tent. A little like their routine about moving a piano (of the two of them and the piano, guess which one does not survive).
Although better than nothing, the knobs don’t work very well for keeping the tips in the grommets. Tired of this, I found a swivel hook that could be taken apart, leaving a lower part that snugly accepts the ends of the Gold Tip Expedition Hunter 7595 carbon arrow shafts I use for flexible tent poles. The lower part is sized for 3/4″ webbing or tape. Please note: when all the usual MYOG companies, like Quest, changed to “generic” swivel hooks, none of their lower parts would fit the poles snugly; however, two companies, Lowy and Jontay, still made parts that would fit snugly, and hold the poles well enough during pitching, so stocked up on them.
Note that the pole tips for mounting the arrowhead also come with the Gold Tip shafts, and serve to make pole tips that can by trimmed to the diameter of the shaft ends, and with minor boring, hold shock cord recessed; thus protecting the ends of the carbon poles and holding the shock cord strung through the pole sections. Why the Gold Tips? Because in break tests of many carbon shafts, the above mentioned Gold Tips did significantly better than, and were lighter than, the other available carbon shafts, and even better than the Easton .344 Nanolites made of heavier ALU alloy. One of the lower ends of the separated swivel hooks, is in the lower right corner of the photo below:
Have used these pole holders for several tents, and they work much better than grommet holes; but would not fit a variety of pole tips like the knobs do. No problem with ice or dirt to date, possible because the pole holders are not alloy, but high density plastic and ice and dirt do not stick well to them.
locking nub at the end of tent poles was invented in 1986 by Sierra Designs.
Maybe so – I wouldn’t know. A marketing ‘feature’ rather than a necessary item.Ball&socket connections – even more marketing features. The customer pays for them.
Me, I use a very simple pole foot and the RIGHT-sized eyelet, thus:
Pity that the pole foot itself is obscured! Oh well.
The bungee cord adds tension to the pole sleeve, which tightens the whole tent fabric. And yes, that cord lock does hold!
The sea dog company has both CL260 and CL266. They claim the CL260 is smaller, but that is not my recollection. Someone can look it up on the ClamCleat web site. The price seems reasonable for something you want to work reliably in a storm.
Cheers
Noted the advantages and issues about small diam. cord, especially if it is slick. However, the biggest issue for me is cord that is of sufficient diameter that it is easy to work with and won’t burn let alone cut the hands. Sailors may have calloused hands, but the only callouses on my hands are on the finger tips from playing steel stringed guitars.
So think the best choice of cord depends on the user. Next step for me would be looking at weights of 2-3mm cord, preferably with a braided weave for flexibility and versatility. Would look at offerings from dyneema and spectra cord; but would also dig out the older threads on BPL about cord from arborists, and see what’s on the web.
After choosing the most desirable cords, would look at the tighteners. The one that appeared to be both the strongest and simplest was the Line-Loc Hook, sold by Dutchware as noted above, and by others. Strongest, because although light, the parts are all robust. No tiny knife edges or movable parts, or skinny acetal rods just begging to fail. The “hook” part may not even be necessary, and might be cut off and buffed out of the picture.
That said, the next challenge is to figure out how to rig the thing so it functions like one of the variations of a tautline hitch, or like a clam cleat; so there are no loose ends floating around. If that does not work out, and unless a more compact but more robust Line-loc or mini Line-Loc comes along, would probably stick with the lightest and strongest 2-3mm cord in a braided weave tied with a tautline hitch, and with a surface slick enough to repel water and ice. The prospect of a dyneema thread core with an outer cover, or the like, sounds way fiddly. Have seen the issues with non-woven DCF “fabric.”
Hope a trimmed down Line-Loc Hook will work for 2-4 guy-lines, at least two of which would be permanent, not accessory. This would be in line with an approach that seeks a true woven fabric tent; but made lighter with all the little doodad parts minimized in size, weight and number as much as possible.
Apropos Roger’s comments about parts that fit the application, note that Carbon Pole bottom ends plugged with aluminum tips that come with the shafts, and fit snugly into receptors made by taking apart 3/4″ swivel hooks, shown in the far right of the photo below. Note the swivel hooks must be Lowy or Jontay, not the “generics” sold by our usual suppliers. The poles are 5 layer carbon Gold-Tip Expedition Hunter shafts, size 75/95, 8.9 gr (grains)/inch. Way lighter than all the metal doodads; and the four acetal receptors hold the pole ends firmly and securely in place.
The ultimate choices would address not only the tighteners; but also the available cordage. Granted, this post is fairly off-piste and gets down into the weeds. There may be no other good way to build a tent because everything about the process is inter-connected.
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