Jetboil Stash

[Roger Caffin]

See also
https://backpackinglight.com/heat-exchanger-pot-test-hx-haa-caffin/

Cheers

[Bill K]

I compared the Stash to my Primus Micron TI (8500 BTU 2.5oz) and the MSR Titan Kettle (4.2 oz) that I have owned for 14 years. (Stash is 4500 BTU and AL pot).  The Stash weighed 0.8oz more.

Sidenote: The MSR pocket rocket is 8200 BTU so I would expect it to perform similar to my Brunton

I did a variety of simultaneous tests boiling water at 38 degrees and 33 degrees which is more typical of what I encounter when backpacking.  I tested inside and also outside to determine the effect of wind and different ambient temps.  I live at 3700′

Inside the Stash had very similar boil times and used 0.2oz of ISO less.

Outside with the wind at 10MPH gusting to 20MPH, the Stash took 2.5x longer to boil and used 0.1oz less ISO.  The flame sputtered several times. Still fuel efficient but raised a concern about performance in less then ideal conditions.

Tested my Brunton with the Stash pot and had the fastest boil time and least amount of ISO used.

Planned usage is 9k’ to 13k’ with similar wind so the Stash got returned due to performance and extra weight. ISO savings too marginal (typical trip is 7-12 days) to make up for performance, especially since I expect the Stash performance to worsen at higher elevations.

Can’t buy just the Stash pot, thought about the Oilcamp XTS pot for the heat exchanger but at 6.7oz to heavy and larger.

Buying to Toaks Light TI 500Ml pot @ 2.6 oz so with my Brunton, entire cookset weight is 5.1oz

Hope this helps somebody cross-shopping the Stash with other systems

[Brad W]

@Bill, what model Brunton is that?

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

FYI – I started a different thread for a JetBoil Stash alternatives here.  In particular, this is about the WideSea HX pot and the SotoWindMaster combo.  If you use just the bottom of the pot (excluding the pot that is used as a lid) and use a yogurt container top, you can get about the same weight as the Stash.  And, it is a lot cheaper.  My 2 cents.

[Bill K]

@Brad W I bought this 14 years ago. it is actually a Primus Micron Ti stove but was sold/marketed in the USA under the Brunton name.  I don’t think mine is avail anymore.  I found this writeup .. I may have used this as part of my research since I bought mine in 2008! The stove pictured is what I have. http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Cook%20and%20Food%20Storage%20Gear/Stoves/Primus%20Micron%20Ti%2025%20Stove/Test%20Report%20by%20Curt%20Peterson/.

I did find this as the seemingly current version. https://primus.us/products/micron-trail-stove?variant=42276766286050

[Roger Caffin]

There was a certain amount of takeover, buying and selling among Brunton, Primus, Olympus (and maybe another?) many years ago. Things appeared to move from brand to brand. It was a fad.

The Micron is a bit like the Pocket Rocket: both have rather weak pot supports. Much care and light loads needed.

Cheers

[Bill K]

curious how you arrived at the conclusion re: the Micron pot supports?

I typically boil 300ml of water in the Titan so total weight is about 1lb.

[Roger Caffin]

Field reports of bends under load seen over the years. The original PR was notorious for this. The pot supports are imho too slender. Yes, biased.

I agree that some of the reports are probably from people who have run the stove too hot and with very large pots, overloading the hot steel. That happens.

Cheers

[Bill K]

thanks … good to know. I could see that happening with the PR with SS supports especially since I also run my stove wide open.  Fortunately my Micron pot stands are titanium :)

All my folding knives have titanium liners also .. guess I am a Ti fanboy for some items!

[Jason Brooks]

The wind tests I’ve seen indicate that the burner is junk. I want the pot to use with a Windmaster burner but they won’t sell the pot alone, probably because they know that if they did no one would buy the stove kit

[Brad W]

@Bill K thanks. Looks like a decent stove. I know many people love the Jetboil system but with exception of fuel economy-not the Stash-I don’t see the upsides. Heavier, bulkier, more expensive, not faster at boiling in most  conditions than a decent quality stove and Ti mug/cup.

[Tyler R]

Man that article and thread is such a good read Roger! I cant tell you how many times I’ve lerked these forums reading your content (this is my first post as a member) and returning to the HX article to referenced it many time over the years before attempting my own heat exchanger pot to see if I could make an HX pot that’s actually light enough to be worth the weight… you should check out what I came up with, I think you might get a kick out of it ;) Thanks for all your work and research into HX pots!

[Pithawat V]

@TylerR that’s incredible! I see you’re using the Stash stove for your tests in the video. Do you get the same efficiency with a BRS?

Also, anecdotally I’ve seen people cutting slots into the bottom of the HX, allowing the burner head to sit closer to the bottom of the pot. Intuitively that may help with blocking the wind and increase efficiency a bit. Any chance you can try that with one of your prototypes?

I think wind will be a bit of an issue with carbon fiber pot material: I’ve had wind push the flame around small pot bottom enough to burn the side of a Toaks 750ml.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

I saw this article.  IMO, HX pots have obviously not been optimized.  I suspect that MSR drank the Kool-Aid with their reactor stove and spent more time on that than the HX functionality of the pot.  My 2 cents.

[Tyler R]

Thanks… Im hesitant to reply because I realize I should of dropped this on a different thread maybe. Let me know if I should move the conversations somewhere else. I’m very new to this forum stuff and haven’t learned the edicate yet.

Yeah Its nearly the same efficiency with the BRS 3000 as it is with the Stash burner (about a difference of 1,000 joules absorbed). The Joule Thief paired with a BRS 3000 set to about 20% stove output is able to absorb 39,514 Joules per gram of fuel burned (in indoor conditions). Which is about 17% more efficient than the Jetboil Stash system’s 33,752 Joules absorbed per gram of fuel burned. Im very happy with those number, thats a massive performance jump in terms of heat exchangers, especially considering it was done while also reducing the weight.

No burner distance isn’t something I have tested in detail yet, so its very likely better efficiency can be achieved.

On the topic of the carbon fiber. I was very concerned when starting this project about how it would hold up and perform… but no matter how powerful of a stove I put under it, the carbon fiber never goes above 110 C max… which is well within its 200 C continuous service limit. I have also recently finished up thermal cycle testing with 450 thermal cycles (boil then freezer) to make sure the carbon fiber never deaminates from the HX. I choose 450 because it seems like the right amount to survive a PCT through hike assuming the average 150 trail days and 3 boils a day.

[YoPrawn]

Are there any health concerns with using CF for cookware?

Also, as a bit off-topic on this note, wouldn’t it make sense to have heat exchange fins that do a 90* turn up the side of the pot? There’s still a lot of heat to be transferred after the flames go through the bottom fins. Not saying this could/should be done on the CF model, but in general, it seems somewhat logical. Or are the temps so low by that point that the added weight of more fins have a sharply diminishing return?

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

While 3D printed aluminum gives you a lot of flexability, it probably will not be cost effective to scale up to manufacturing.  One thing to consider is the sintering process.  Best wishes.

[Tyler R]

Yes definitely health concerns with CF! VERY few FDA compliant epoxies rated for direct food contact exist. To address this issue, the Joule Thief has a .2mm FDA compliant direct food contact rated silicone coating on the inside of the CF drum and over the epoxy joints, which is a much more widely recognized food safe material than exotic epoxies.

I realize i’m hijacking the Stash thread, I’m going to stop posting here now and start a seperate thread for the Joule Thief and return here with a link to it.

[Jon Fong / Flat Cat Gear]

BTW, I would be less worried about the CF and more concerned about the binders used in the aluminum fabrication process.  My 2 cents.

[Brad W]

CF should in no way be used with any food contact.

[Tyler R]

Okay, Joule Thief thread is up I think.

@Jon Fong yeah definitely! I’m using a selective laser sintering method (same process used for making custom medical implants), so no binders are used on this. But residual binders are definitely a concern for any thing coming out of the AM binder jetting process.

@Brad W I have tried my best to mitigate the health concerns of the CF (see thread for reference) but I am personally using this pot and definitely care about my health; thus, I very much want to hear any information on the nature of your concerns or suggestions! What are the issues you foresee for me and my body in this use case? (probably best to post reply in the Joule Thief thread)

[Roger Caffin]

I’ve seen people cutting slots into the bottom of the HX, allowing the burner head to sit closer to the bottom of the pot.
Before you do that you should read about the dangers of toxic carbon monoxide (CO) in the series of articles starting at:
https://backpackinglight.com/stoves_tents_carbon_monoxide/

Having the burner head too close to the pot will cause some quenching of the flames, and that makes CO. I would not do it myself.

Cheers

[YoPrawn]

Roger, I think the mod just allows the burner head to get to regular operating distances. It would be no closer to the bottom of the pot than a pot with no HX fins.

Now, would the HX fins cause the flame to not burn clean? Don’t know, but the distance is no different than a pot with no HX.

Probably wouldn’t be too hard to test by measuring the CO output between the two different methods.

[Roger Caffin]

would the HX fins cause the flame to not burn clean?
Very possibly, as the fins are sucking heat out of the flames. That is called quenching.

OK, I am a shade paranoid about CO risks, because in really bad weather I have to cook inside the tent. You can NOT cook outside in a 100 kph snow storm! (No matter what MSR’s lawyers say I must do.)

Cheers

[Bill K]

I would expect that JetBoil designed the burner and air/fuel mixture for the specific distance between the burner and corresponding pot they include.

Roger – Part 1 is interesting enough for me to have found the rest of the series.  will take some time to read everything :). thanks for the effort

[Author]

Posts