Is my breath really killing my sleepin pad?

If your pad has down then  yes your breath ( moisture) trapped in there will end up ruining your pad . It will start stinking too…

As for pads with no down, I would think that it’s fine but ..others will chime in, I am sure.

I had baffles delaminate in my Exped Synmat UL 7.  Probable cause moisture from my breath while inflating it.  Other have reported the same problem, although it likely depends on which brand you are using, and what kind of adhesive they use to cement the baffles in place.

Yes, it definitely somewhat depends on the type of pad and the specific contents and bonding agents.  Also depends on your consistent climate. The most arid climes will probably tend to have the least amount of issues.  Here in the northern part of the consistently humid south east… yeah, forget about it.

The least harm will tend to be done to simple, uninsulated air pads (and again, in combo with low humidity environs). And while you may not ruin this kind of pad by blowing into it, an interesting experiment after the pad is retired is to cut it open and see what’s inside.  Something tells me that unless if you live in a consistently arid environment, then the inside will be a quite nasty lab experiment.

Here’s a sort of analogical comparison. At home, instead of peeing in the toilet, I keep a glass bottle on my bathroom sink, and pee in that and dump it in the sink with a quick rinse of both the bottle and the sink.

Despite that I rinse it with fresh water every time I pee, despite that it’s glass and not conducive to microbe growth and build up, and despite that most people’s urine comes out sterile…

Tell you what, the inside of that glass bottle can get pretty nasty microbial and smell wise after awhile, so once in a while I have to soak some bleach in there.

“Life will find a way”.  Now think about something that never gets cleaned and which has a soft/semi-permeable material, and is constantly subjected to microbes and moisture in a dark, mostly enclosed/low air circulation space.  You just might just be carrying around a few grams or more of some lovely black mold or the like. Especially if you live at places like the south east or other consistently humid and warm areas.

To me, it just makes sense to minimize that if possible, even if it doesn’t significantly extend the life of your particular pad.

Doubt it will impact you much if you live in and hike primarily at the desert or the like.

Yup, you’re blowing moisture and bacteria into something you can’t clean or dry out.   I think it’s as much a hygiene issue as damaging your pad.

Yes. Water vapor/water will penetrate most anything to some degree. There are very few things that it does not effect and it is essential to life. Bacteria also can produce acids/bases in your pad especially from any saliva that enters the pad. Add this up and you get a reduced life expectancy from an inflatable pad.

Now, is it critical? No. The Neoairs (old style and xlites) have welded seams (basically, melting together of the coatings.) It would take a long time for water and bacterial action to eat through the area around seams (the most likely spot to be damaged.)  After several years, the last one I bought was so thin on the bottom I could actually see into the pad. It was a general leak on the bottom where I could see several areas where it was producing a tiny bubble, sometimes two or three in the same area. Clearly unpatchable and worn out. The point of this is that you get about 150-200 nights on a NeoAir, or, about three years. I wear them out quicker than the bacteria/saliva/water vapour damages the pad. Just make sure that you leave the valve open when you pack it in the morning or store it. Therm-a-Rest doesn’t say anything about moisture damage and says just blowing them up by mouth is fine.

I use a NeoAir.  I inflate them on the trail by just blowing air into them.  When I get home. I fill them with air (vacuum cleaner exhaust) and lay them out in the warm sun for an hour or so.  Then I deflated them and store them, not sure if it helps but I see no down side.  My 2 cents.

With Thermarest not having a good design for an inflation bag, if I were set on using Thermarest pads it would be a more difficult decision.   But the Schnozzel seems like a no-brainer to me.   At 2oz it’s a large truly waterproof drybag that will take your sleeping bag and all your clothes.   So the net weight penalty is virtually nothing.  And besides being more hygienic, it’s easier than using your lungs, quick and effective.

I use Jon’s method also, although I don’t leave it in the sun as long for fear of explosion. I repeat the process several times. The first couple deflations if I hold my hand in front of the escaping air the moisture is very readily apparent, I keep repeating until it do not feel it.

I doubt there would be any damage that would make the pad unusable, as in causing a leak, since I have been using and blowing into T-rests of various models for almost 40 years with none of that. But I am concerned about moisture damaging the reflective layers in my Xtherm, and that is why I go to the trouble of the post-trip routine. I do not want to lose any of that pad’s lovely insulating capability.

Isn’t it just easier, and more fool proof, for long term to use some kind of non human breath inflator?

I don’t like throwaway items, and while I have used the trash bag method in the past, I’m thinking about just taking some membrane Silpoly and making an inflator with that. I still have an extra nozzle, just silicone caulk or adhesive it to the silpoly fabric sleeve.

But honestly, if my MYOG extra comfort CCF pad works out well (see: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/worlds-most-comfortable-lightest-warmest-and-adaptable-ccf-pad/  ) good bye air pads forever ever. Might sell or donate the air pads we do have.  Though might keep one of the extra light/uninsulated ones for rare hot weather use.

And then when the polyimide polymer based, flexible aeorgel sheets come down in price, I’ll be putting those 1/2″ medium density EVA foam cushion pieces on that, and especially used during serious cold trips.

Devin cut open his 8 yo xlite to see if the mold rumor was true. I am grateful he did, because I thought it was a legitimate concern… NOPE! He did note the delamination of some of the foil layer around the edges and the mouth piece, but nothing substantial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxgbQ4NMg74

I’ve only ever used breath.  Pad longevity and hygiene never ever cross my mind until I read threads like this.

I have an Exped Synmat UL7 that’s about 6 years old.  A baffle at the foot started delaminating a year ago; I still use it just fine.  I’m not convinced breathe has anything to do with this;  it’s a UL pad and I heard the baffle pop when sitting on it too hard.

I have Thermarests from the 90s that are perfectly functional.  The most-used pad in my quiver, a 3/4 Prolite, has easily seen a few hundred nights; I can discern no issues with it whatsoever.

Oh, I’m also a barbarian that has no post-trip pad care rituals.  I deflate in the morning on the last day, pack it out, and put it straight into my gear locker when I get home…

I remain convinced this is all much ado about nothing.

I remain convinced this is all much ado about nothing.

+1

My method is similar to Crag’s, except I unroll it at home and store it opened-valve on a 4 foot long shelf in my garage, meaning it has one fold, and a loose fold at that. I have 4 or 5 pads all are 4-20 years old. Good thing for me is I live in a hot, low humidity desert — by design. Where do you think the Air Force stores all its old airplanes? In the desert in Tucson, AZ. That environment allows them to reactivate planes that have been sitting for 10, 20, or even more years.

I forgot to mention  that one of the other things that I do is to deflate my NeoAir in the morning when I wake up.  As am still laying on the pad, so the air inside is pretty warm.  When my butt & back feel the ground, it’s time to get dressed and moving.  My 2 cents.

Even if you don’t use to breath to inflate a pad the air inside the pad, when cooled at night, can have the moisture contained (in the air) condense into water droplets. So, when I get home I inflate the pad half way and put it out on the back deck, in the sun, to warm the air inside and evaporate the water droplets, to turn them into water vapor.Then I deflate it, and repeat this a few times to try to get as much water out of the pad as possible.

Well, bacterial laden moist air for inflation ain’t good in ANY inflatable mattress.

Its long past time for Thermarest to provide inflation valves for their “self inflating” pads that mate with popular inflating dry bags.

Both my REI FLASH insulated air mattress use the compatible Sea to Summit inflating dry bag. AT 9,000 feet it sure beats blowing the mattresses up with my lungs. Air mattresses in particular require a lot more air for full inflation.

“Devin cut open his 8 yo xlite to see if the mold rumor was true. I am grateful he did, because I thought it was a legitimate concern… NOPE! He did note the delamination of some of the foil layer around the edges and the mouth piece, but nothing substantial.”

Anthony, do you know where Devin lives and primarily hikes at?  I really do think that matters quite a bit. The more consistently humid the area you live at, the more it will be a problem. The less humid and more towards the arid, the less of an issue it will be.

It also matters that it was insulated with non fibrous content (basically plastic film baffles+IR reflector). Something that uses down, primaloft, thinsulate, or the like, will definitely have more issues than a Neoair.

Relativity.  We need to compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

Craig and Nick, don’t both you guys live in like southern CA?  Don’t you both do a lot of backpacking and hiking in fairly dry and non humid environments?

If you lived at and primarily hiked here in the south east, and then this issue would likely be more of a consideration for you.

I sometimes mildly envy folks that live in dry, rarely humid climes, for various different reasons. I loved hiking the CT, because even though it rained some days, the humidity rarely seemed to get above 50%  and quite often was in the 20’s and 30’s. Blessed be the dry air!

I use the Big Agnes Pumphouse with my XTherm and Uberlite. Better than blowing up by mouth.

“ I have 4 or 5 pads all are 4-20 years old.”

How can Nick Gatel not have an orange, brass-valves, original Thermarest dating from the Carter Administration?!?

I have an Xtherm and have always inflated using the pump sac.  Since it’s insulating value comes from reflective layers, it makes some sense to me that you would want to minimize moisture accumulation and bacterial growth, which a pump may help with (although in humid environments it seems that you would still be getting a some moisture in there).  Even though I never inflated by mouth, a couple years ago my pad started to mildly delaminate, so I doubt that breath is much of a factor in structural issues.  I also have a Uberlite, which did not come with a pump sack, presumably because it doesn’t have reflective layers and thus bacterial growth wouldn’t be a big issue.  The only issue I consider with such a pad is how much moisture weight accumulates from breath.  That would be relatively easy to test- go on an extended trip with someone else w/ the same pad, weigh pads at the start, one person inflates by mouth, the other by pump, and then weigh pads at the end of the trip.

I’ve been blowing up air mattresses with my breath since I was about 8. Is this mold you all are finding (I haven’t ever looked or noticed) something new that is somehow harmful? I’ve unintentionally eaten moldy bread, moldy salsa, and intentionally eaten plenty of blue cheese, all harmless. I don’t get it. I also don’t really get what is hard about blowing up a mattress. You have to take your time with a Neoair or some other big mattress (the Prolite is super easy) but so what? I looked at the ads for these pump sacks and they say things like “save your breath,” as if it won’t regenerate quickly. I suppose if I had a big group and was doing it all it could be helpful.

Phew, another trend and thing I don’t have to buy or carry.

Really depends on the kind of mold, just like with bacteria, other fungi/yeast, viruses, algae, etc.

Some mold is fairly toxic, even in small amounts. Similar with algae. One of my cats died from drinking a small amount of stagnant water (outside) with the wrong kind of algae in it. (I had seen her doing so from a distance, not realizing the implications at the time).  Yet, I eat plenty of spirulina, another, different kind of algae. Kind of relative eh?  There are lot’s of these starkly contrasting and extreme comparisons between different microbes of the same genus or family.

A lot of people don’t seem to be aware of this, but the growing peanut “allergy” epidemic has nothing directly to do with peanuts themselves, but a certain kind of mold that apparently likes and commonly grows on them and that produces mycotoxins that are moderately toxic.  Turns out that irradiation, which foods have become increasingly treated with, does not kill this mold, but actually proliferates it.

After eating this crap for a while, eventually bodies, especially already compromised and imbalanced bodies, say “NO MORE!” and start to have very strong reactions to even small amounts.

This was proven to me quite dramatically on a trip to England and Scotland a decade plus ago. We had heard that food was rather expensive in the UK. Since we were traveling on a definite budget, we decided to vacuum pack a bunch of peanut and almond butter sandwiches.  We knew we wouldn’t always have access to refrigeration, and we thought this would help preserve them during the course of said trip.  Up to this point, I hadn’t ever noticed having any issues with peanuts or peanut products.

On the last, 9th day of our trip, I ate the last peanut butter sandwich, and immediately proceeded to have one of the worst allergic type reactions I have ever had. I broke out in extreme, head to toe hives, became very lethargic, throat was starting to itch–it was one of the few times in my life where I was legitimately scared.  I drank a ton of water with some baking soda in it (microbiological toxins tend to be acid in nature, and alkalines/bases bond to acids and vice a versa on an electro chemical level), laid down, meditated and prayed, and thankfully the episode passed, and I felt better after a nap. Then I went for a run to sweat some of that crap out, and felt even better after that.

All from a little mold that likes peanuts, that started off a small, tolerable amount, but grew a little more here and there over the 9 days of the trip, till it reached a level of over mycotoxins that my body just couldn’t handle anymore.  There was NO visible mold on these sandwiches, I would not have eaten them if there was.

Ever since that trip, my body has been sensitive to peanut products, and I have to avoid them.

“There are more things in heaven and earth than dreamt of in your philosophy Kar…, I mean Horatio”

Some of us care about the health and well being of our bodies, because we have had experiences which have made this a greater priority. And some of us know, some molds, you just don’t want to mess with.

Justin, I believe that Devin lives and generally hikes in Utah. Where in Utah? I am not sure. I can only presume he experiences the spectrum of climes made available by his state. What I mentioned was pertaining to the neoair pads. Obviously, different forms of insulation are subject to different conditions, but that’s not the point that I was trying to make. I was saying that based on this sample size of *1* that the notion of moisture/mold formation within the neoair pad leading to degradation seems to be false. That’s all. I would love to see if this is consistently true, but not many people are willing to cut up a useful pad in the name of science.

To me, a pump sack is an unnecessary luxury. That is largely because I don’t do many high altitude treks. I’m sure that I would I would appreciate one much more if I did. In addition, it would have to double as a stuff sack for me to be able to justify carrying one.

I care a lot about my health, Justin, you don’t have an exclusive on that. Buying products is not proof of healthy living. I can’t imagine eating vacuum packed sandwiches over all the fantastic fresh food in the U.K. – to each their own.

I don’t see any evidence that suddenly after 44 years of blowing up camping mattresses that a toxic mold I haven’t yet “dreamed” about is going to come get me. I should subtract about 6 years from that total when I used only foam pads. I’m sure there are molds harmful to humans but I’m the kind of person who needs solid scientific evidence before glomming on to a trend. If this supposed mold in a mattress is harmful to myself or damages the mattress, is there proof of this? Otherwise I have to wonder if this is all marketing hype, as so many health trends are. I wish I could think up some scare story and invent a product to go along with it, maybe I could retire early.

There definitely is moisture in your breath, so if you mouth-blow to fill your air pad that will introduce moisture into a closed system. Even if that does not harm your pad, it’s extra weight. If you vent and dry out the pad after each trip then minimal penalty, but to me that’s a PITA extra step.