How should men act when encountering women on the trail, especially solo hikers?

“his ‘tips on hitting on chicks on the trail’ struck me as off-key given the thread topic.”

that’s for sure

Well in hindsight I went over the top. I don’t know Monte; I’m sure he’s a fine person and no threat to anyone on the trail. It’s just, his ‘tips on hitting on chicks on the trail’ struck me as off-key given the thread topic. Maybe this is my issue. Apologies for being so judgmental.

I see no reason for an apology. I think you stated perfectly what a lot of us think.

Maybe “how to get laid on the trail” needs its own thread. Monte can take care of that and I’ll scroll on by!

Back to the original topic, one other thing I thought of that has happened to me that made me uncomfortable – don’t touch a woman you don’t know. That seems overly obvious, but some men are really touchy-feely (as are many women). They may mean it in a fatherly sort of way- a pat on the shoulder, but you just don’t know how people feel about being touched. Hands to yourself, just like in Kindergarten.

I guess we should be realistic and accept that there will always be men on the trail who are looking to hook up, and there will always be a proportion of women who are open to approaches. Particularly the younger generation.

So perhaps the key takeaway for any men who are approaching women is that no means no!

If your advances aren’t explicitly welcomed, withdraw gracefully and make it abundantly clear that you will respect the woman’s decision. And if at all possible, move away from the area and leave them in peace.

Continuing to press your attentions on someone despite indifference or rejection, particularly in a remote situation where they are physically vulnerable, just makes you an egregious creep.

This thread is irresistible. It’s like a Rorschach test

I’m seeing Wiley Coyote on the top left / right in profile, the back of his head and view as from the rear in the middle, then it’s looking down on the top of his head at bottom left/right. Either that or some sort of fish vertebra washed up on the beach. What do you think?

I see an x ray of some pointy hips though which a tiny adult with a dress (and either a heart shaped head or with ram horns) and hands up high – is descending for a breech birth. Small head though so not too bad.

I know…….But it’s been a rough few months.

Now that I look at it again I see a woman with two coyotes flanking her while she’s trying to just enjoy her hike; one is harassing her and the other one is protecting her from the other one- yes they do look the same. She’s had it with both of them and throws her hands up.

Thats pretty funny kat

I can see the dress

I was coming out from a solo overnight the other day and lo and behold, there was a solo female hiker coming up the trail towards me!

In a moment of panic and sheer desperation, my brain froze and I forgot all of the sage advice in this thread. No time to think, we were about to pass each other, I had to go on pure instinct…

I raised my hand in a somewhat universal gesture of greeting, smiled, nodded, and said “Hello!”.

She smiled, nodded, and said “Hello!” back to me!

And just like that, it was over. Phew…

^^^^^

Good thing you didn’t overthink that one!

Kat wins this thread!

And here’s one of many alternate realities in regards to the experience I described above:

A woman is out for her morning hike, alone and about 5 miles up a trail when she sees a 6’2″, 225# male come around the bend in her direction. He’s wearing a pack and cutoff shorts with a black t-shirt, has many tattoos showing, and looks a little tired and dirty…

A part of her mind instinctively scans for an exit route and she makes a quick mental check about the location of her pepper spray….

Fortunately, he smiles, gives a nod and a wave of the hand, says “Hello!” and keeps walking without breaking stride or looking back.

She gives a nod, smile, and “Hello!” back.

And just like that, it was over. Phew…

So many unseen layers to what happens in our interactions in this world….

^^ Starting off this particular day with a good hearty laugh. And a useful reminder of perspective. Yeah I could see all of that! Is that weird or what?

Great way to start the day!

or, man walking down trail, woman approaches from the other direction

man says to himself “don’t ask her where’s she’s going because that would sound creepy”

“don’t ask her where’s she’s going”

“don’t ask her where she’s going”

man nervously blurts out “where are you going?”

then after the crisis passes “shit! I asked her where she was going, damn…”

Apropos of this discussion;

https://torontosun.com/life/relationships/ask-amy-woman-wonders-why-men-hit-on-her

I loved this part of the answer, when the questioner mentions that she is not trying to be girly or attractive:

“Women who are “girly” and wear makeup and feminine clothing are not asking to be hit on. Women who wear jeans and T-shirts are also not asking to be hit on. Women jogging, riding bicycles, walking their dogs or talking with their friends are not asking to be hit on.”

Yep

And this part:

Your crime is to attempt to move through the world, minding your own business.

This has been a fascinating thread.  I kept on thinking I am sure glad I am not young, or even middle-aged anymore.  I was confident that I could go hiking without the fear of being threatening to anyone.  I just assumed I would be looked on as that old (harmless) guy hiking.  But now I wonder if I could possibly be seen by women of any age as threatening.  It makes me want to laugh but I know this is a serious question.

Yeah, hard to see from other person’s perspective if you haven’t experienced their life

Same thing with black people and other groups

I am less wary when men are hiking toward me rather than the same direction. Gives me time to size him up.

When I was younger I experienced a lot of what I guess you could call various levels of assault. I could be at a bar or a party and hands would reach up and grab me. I was walking down the street in broad daylight with my sister and a man walking toward us grabbed me in a hug. There were many times I would be out walking and a man would pull up in a car next to me and open the door to show me he was touching himself. I have never had experiences like this in the wilderness. I see the wilderness as a place where those people don’t go. It’s a place where I am free to be fully human, not a female person but a whole person. My experiences out there have almost always been good and those that have been sexist in some way have been laughable, not dangerous.

In my 20s I sold flowers at street corner open-air flower stands. The company I worked for had several stands all over town so there were lots of us young women who worked alone at each stand around town. There were times when men wanted to rob me or rape me. It was a cash business and we kept the cash in an apron pocket and had a metal cash box with the coins. It would have been pretty easy to rob me. The ones who wanted to rape me wouldn’t leave even if I demanded they leave. Pre-cell phone, my only recourse was to run away to a pay phone and call the police. Sometimes the pay phone was a block away or more. One time I said fuck this and just closed the stand early. One of the stands had no pay phone anywhere. I would run into the street into traffic and start yelling if someone was bothering me and wouldn’t go away. One time I cut a guy with my clippers. My co-worker became a hero when she hit a potential robber over the head with the cash box. My rule working there was to never give anyone the benefit of the doubt, not for one second. Working there gave me strength for solo backpacking.

Creepy men, like the guy who described “knowing” a woman is into him because she twirls her hair, believe in a script. They think they can get you to follow a script and that if they can get you to cross some line in the script, they can get you to a place where they can rob or rape you. If you don’t follow the script it throws them off. Hit him over the head with the cash box. Run screaming into the street like a crazy person. These guys look so stunned when you don’t follow the script. They don’t know what to do.

So I don’t really have any advice for the men here who are basically decent and don’t want to scare solo women hikers. I think most men on trail are pretty decent. I have lived a rich full life and have pretty good sense of who is a creep and I guess it’s easy to tell because they try to steer you toward a goal. So if you just don’t do stuff that seems like you are trying to steer her toward a goal, that helps a lot.

wow, that’s crazy

like I said, it’s hard to see from other person’s perspective if you haven’t experienced their life

stories like this help

my wife has some stories like that, only at maybe 1/10th the level, she’s probably just not telling me the rest

I think all women have stories like that but unless they lay them all out in front of them, it’s easy to not see how pervasive it is. Also, if you are not a free spirit maybe you have fewer of them.

Diane, thanks for sharing all of that.  Wow.

This whole thread makes me think of Ted Bundy, the psychopath who was so good at earning womens’ trust and manipulating their instincts.  Since I’m not sure I could trust my spidey senses to identify someone like that, it is just easier to not engage on the trail.  Sorry guys, but that does factor into things.

Wow Diane, you have some stories. I have some MeToos also, but I think I try to forget them, put them out of my mind. It’s just so disturbing to remember all the catcalls, cars stopping alongside, and come-ons or insults thrown out. An attack in college, which a hard knee to the balls ended. On and on.

When I lived in Seattle, a true psychopath stalked me for a while (I walked or biked to the university and that’s where he first found me). At one point I escaped into a store and the owner called the cops. The cops told me if I ever saw him again to call them immediately. One bad dude. My husband’s work partner wanted to “take care of him ourselves” (he was from the poorest part of Detroit).

Just a few years ago I was at a conference in Charleston – me a middle aged plump business dressed woman. From my lodging it was about 3/4 mile walk to the conference venue (I couldn’t afford the conference hotel and my employer wasn’t paying). One morning a trash collector in a little cart greeted me, and I responded with good morning (everyone in Charleston is friendly). He took that as an offer of some kind, and proceeded to follow me in his little cart for blocks. I finally ducked into a shop and he left. Later the same day, a car full of teens slowed down next to me on the street and started making lewd remarks. I hadn’t experience that kind of crap in a long time. It really makes you sick, I think you end up with a lot of internal stress. I feel for southern women, assuming this is common down there.

I agree, backpacking and being out there is where you can really feel free. Lots more stories here too, but none during backpacking trips, only from car camping. Let it remain so!

For someone that’s had those experiences, an act by some man may be very concerning

To someone that’s not experienced that, the reaction to that same act may seem like an unwarranted trigger warning.  Ha, ha, you’re over-reacting, that man never meant anything…

At least I haven’t read anyone saying it’s the woman’s fault, she shouldn’t have been wearing some particular clothing or acted some way.  Like the mid 20th century.

Or did I miss it?  To be truthful, I haven’t really followed this too carefully

The same thing applies to a lot of other things, like what black people experience.

I think the insults hurt me more than any other thing. Some of the other things are scary, but the insults have always left a mark.