Denatured Alcohol Banned in California

“What a fugged up state…”

To be honest, I don’t know how I do it.

All of the sunrises while hunting the Pacific have probably been the most painful.

; )

Ouch!

It hurts climbing the lousy hills too

And skiing back down them

I see you’re struggling too David.  My condolences.

To think of the children that have been raised like this…

It’s a terrible place – what with wildfires, mudslides, denatured alcohol bans and what not….

Don’t let those pictures in the posts above fool you – it’s all fake, just fake I tell you!

There are no hills here worth hiking, the weather sucks, there’s no water….it’s just a glorified desert.

Even the animals are all dying, it’s a travesty…

And there is so much traffic that you can’t get anywhere without flying…

In short, it’s just a terrible place to live.  I think this denatured alcohol ban might just be the last straw for me…

I was surprised how many posts there were before this degenerated! I was expecting much faster.   So, while we are down in the mud with the pigs, I thought I would contribute as we in AZ see it.

A beautiful state does not mean it’s government is always making good choices. Or do you all really not see the difference..

“btw, the federal mandate that California reduce VOC emissions did not specify which sources of VOCs should be controlled. Denatured alcohol was put on the list because industry and stakeholders decided that it would be less disruptive and less expensive to eliminate than some of the other candidates.” (Jerald Cole, B.S., S.M. Chemistry, Chemical Engineering, SJSU, MIT (1982)

Blame industry, not California.

@art-r: We can only hope for such a wall -it would save us the trouble of seceding!

@kattt: I totally get the difference. I think the point we’re trying to make is that it’s worth being in California even when the government doesn’t always make good choices because it’s a wonderful place to live and most of the time our state government makes very good choices.

I will avoid any further comments that will lead us down an off-topic and unhelpful political discussion. My intent with the original post was simply to inform everyone of the ban because I was surprised when I learned of it and thought others might not be aware either.

@feetfirst: Thanks Alex

Not only is denatured alcohol banned, but I’ve heard Youtubers claim all alcohol stoves are banned in CA.  They were not California residents and therefore idiots, but sure.  It’s on the internet and therefore….  and while I’m charging ahead off-topic…the first 700 miles of the PCT is all desert – so stay away from SoCal in particular.  You need to carry 20lb bear canisters in the Sierra (pronounced Sierras for you outsiders).  And Yosemite, Joshua Tree and the other CA National Parks are pretty much like Disneyland – which isn’t as good as DisneyWorld.  I see no reason for people to visit CA whatsoever.  Well…unless you are from AZ.  ;0

“A beautiful state does not mean it’s government is always making good choices. Or do you all really not see the difference..”

Of course not. However, have you considered that one of the reasons these beautiful places have remained are because of the decisions of local and state government?

David,  I was tongue in cheek. We in AZ would really miss you, but not sure the East Coast would even notice!!  (trying to expand this thread!)

@slbear: I looked into that issue very closely a couple of years ago. Alcohol stoves are not banned per se in their entirety, but can only be used in the same places that wood fires are permitted. In dry years that means almost nowhere, but in wet years or in deserts it’s often OK.

@feetfirst: Exactly!

@art-r: Whew! And we would miss AZ. I’m pretty sure the East Coast would miss CA too, at least the Northeast Coast, since all the best tech development is here :-)

The economy of California is the largest in the United States, boasting a $3.137 trillion gross state product as of 2019. If California were a sovereign nation (2020), it would rank as the world’s fifth largest economy, ahead of India and behind Germany.

I think that people would notice if CA seceded from the US

Of course, state government in Texas, for example, is entirely enlightened and would be MUCH preferable to the one here in CA.

Agreed, it’s a terrible state; tell all your friends; don’t move here!~ Or visit; why would you? The beaches in New Jersey are much better.

Oh sure, now that you Californiacs have done your best to ruin Oregon and Washington, you don’t want anyone coming to your state. Figures….

@doug-i: Someone reported your comment for inappropriate content? What? I, at least, assumed it was just good-natured ribbing. To quote Rodney King: “Can’t we all just get along?”

In any event, I’m thinking it’s time to develop isopropyl stoves like Jon Fong has. He also says hand sanitizer can work well. I’ll have to give both a try.

“I, at least, assumed it was just good-natured ribbing.”

And you assumed correctly. But someone might have hit the report button without meaning to, it’s still rather close to the reply button.

I know how you feel, Doug. California used to be a great place to live before all those people from Washington and Oregon moved down here.

I find 99% IPA to be pretty easy to source – Safeway, Walgreens, etc – more so than denatured ethanol.

Hand sanitizer could work, during non-pandemic times, but the best I can find is 70% which means carrying that extra water along with you and using a lot of BTUs to boil it away.

Some medical facilities in Alaska switched to foaming hand sanitizers because a few patients were using the gel wall dispensers as shots of vodka.

I finally found an earlier BPL thread where the California denatured alcohol ban surfaced:

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/21091/page/4/#post-3622666

And 12 ounce bottles of Yellow HEET are still in stock at 20 Home Depot stores near me. I guess methanol is totally safe in California’s air – NOT.

— Rex

“I know how you feel, Doug. California used to be a great place to live before all those people from Washington and Oregon moved down here.”

Ha!

Certainly this ban doesn’t seem very logical. Ethanol, even with most of the denaturants that are used, is pretty darn benign. At least, much more benign than many other chemicals and chemical mixtures that are still readily available to the consumer. Like… um… gasoline for example.

So it’s hard to see how this ban is informed by actual science and logic. And typically when that’s the case, it’s because of politics. Ahh, politics…

The only consolation for alcohol stove users in California like myself is that the yellow bottles of HEET (which I believe contain almost pure methanol) are still going to be readily available for the foreseeable future. That product basically has the automotive industry behind it, so it’s not going anywhere anytime soon.

Is methanol a worse fuel than ethanol for alcohol stoves? That’s a pretty clear yes (although as Rex pointed out, methanol does have at least one advantage in priming).

Is methanol that much worse in practice? Not really. It’s less energy dense and definitely way more toxic, but it’s also far more available (which trumps everything else on long distance hikes, at least), and it’s cheap.

I look forward to the day when I can buy denatured ethanol again in California, but in the meantime, I’m certainly not going to stop using my alcohol stove.

Life goes on, as they say.