Denatured Alcohol Banned in California

Using lead ammo at ranges presents a serious problem of lead poisoning for people who work at the ranges and are exposed to a lot morethan the casual shooter over time.  They had to close and decontaminate a shooting range up here after a couple of employees developed lead poisoning.

It’s kinda surprising what can become dangerous. There are a couple areas in Joshua Tree NP that get closed once in a while after really heavy rains. Seems the rain collects and moves some of the heavy metals in the old mine tailings. David probably has expertise in this area.

I think this conversation has been lead astray…

(I’m sorry. I couldn’t stop myself)

”

In some of Los Angeles’ more crowded outdoor ranges, I wouldn’t be surprised if close to half a ton of lead was getting put into the mountainside on a busy day, with who knows how much of it becoming particulate matter.

Both ranges I’m thinking of are in the hills of major watersheds.

And then the rains come…”

The metallic lead would most likely just stay where it is.

Lead from bullets is pretty inert. Not bioavailable unless somehow acted on. Acid from a condor’s stomach, where they have no way to poop it out like other animals, so it just sits and dissolves might do it.  Drinking water from a acid contaminated water supply running thru lead water pipes does it. Bottom feeding ducks that continually ingest shotgun pellets are harmed as well. Hence the ban on lead shot over water for hunting.  A typical CA rainstorm  wouldn’t cause measurable results.

Outdoor ranges just mine the lead and reuse it. For shotgun shot they don’t have to do any other process other than use a sorting machine then load it back up. Other metallic lead bullets they recycle. There are no smelters in the US that process new lead ore anymore, just recycling facilities.

Indoor ranges require good ventilation and many also require coated or plated lead bullets as someone mentions. Lead bullets, are covered with paint or copper to prevent the heated gases from the smokeless powder from turning a bit of the bullet base into a gas.

There are some new developments in lead free primers, as they put a tiny bit of more bioavailable lead in the air when fired. At an indoor range this can be an issue, likely more than the bullets. Hopefully these will become more reliable/available.

@dmusashe: If it was your “aim” to jest you should have used “bullet” points to “trigger” our laughter.

“Oh sure, now that you Californiacs have done your best to ruin Oregon and Washington, you don’t want anyone coming to your state”

Uh, the proper term is Californicators, Doug.

“Tom, was that at an indoor or outdoor range? FWIW, that is one of the reasons I only go to outdoor ranges.”

Indoor, David.  Your precaution is well advised.

OK, so what about ESBIT tablets??

I’ve always preferred ESBIT to alcohol anyway for mt Trail Designs tl Caldera Cone stove.

OK, so what about ESBIT tablets??

Not yet banned in California. Don’t cause lead poisoning. Can be purchased even in warmer parts of the state. Comes in only one color or formula, but multiple sizes. You can bring ESBIT into the state without fear. No significant economic impact.

I think that covers most of this thread. I’m sure people will chime in if I missed something :-)

— Rex

Well, my wife and I were thinking of moving to Dos Vientos Ranch Thousand Oaks, CA to be near our youngest daughter and 3 grandkids. But then we realized we’d have to pay a STATE income tax of $8,300. (compared to Nevada’s 0%) and that nixed it for us. That’s our vacation money.

Plus… The People’s Republic of California bans the two “assault-type” rifles I own and asking me to sell them is asking a lot. And even two of my pistols have magazine capacities too large for the PRC another Draconian firearms/ammo laws.

So thanks, but no thanks. Sorry, but not sorry.

I question the plastic bag ban

If you calculate the amount of CO2 produced, lifetime, from pumping oil or chopping down a tree or planting a cotton plant, plastic bags actually produce less CO2 than paper of cotton

I’m all for protecting the environment, I just want to actually do it, not just do “feel good” measures

Now it’s in Oregon, thanks a lot for Californicating Oregon

I guess you’re returning the favor – Oregon first did a bottle bill and then California adopted it.  We should just put bottles in the recycling bin.  Back in the day there were no recycle bins so the bottle bill made more sense.  You can never undo one of these

Reusable shopping bags are now banned in many places because bringing them into the store can spread Covid-19.

I’m amazed at the number of companies that don’t need to be in California stay there.  With so many people working from home successfully, I would think Silicon Valley companies will see they can save a lot of money by going elsewhere.

California is a beautiful state, but the taxes, real estate costs and regulations make it tough on a lot of people.  They killed gig work to no benefit, too.

BradP: I’ve long wondered why more tech companies don’t set up satellite operations in high-quality-of-life, low-expense places.  I’ve got a ton of recreational opportunities right out my doorstep but our 13 acres of spruce forest with 700 feet of sandy beach on the salt water looking out at 10,000-foot glaciated volcanoes was only $103,000.  I kayaked past Bill Gates’ house when I lived in Seattle and while he has a much nicer (or at least vastly larger) house, everything about my lot, view, and privacy is far better.

When anything livable starts over a million, versus the same thing here for $150-200,00 or a really nice house with great views (and/or on a  lake or a salmon river) at $400,000, then the biggest financial worry of young professionals goes away.

Google and Apple both just built hubs in the city I work in.  The “culture” was the draw, million dollar housing be darned.  Top restaurants, cafes, art galleries, bars, theaters, “big city” amenities like high-end furniture and design outlets, trendy fashion retailers, hot yoga and pilates studios, and perhaps most important, LOTS of people to see you driving your Tesla…Spruce forests?  Not so much.  That’s a vacation, not a lifestyle.

Tech companies are creating satellite locations… quite a few in Austin, TX.

Wait a second, you all tricked me! Wasn’t this thread about denatured alcohol being banned in CA? :)

Dang it David you can’t say that you make it sound like living in Alaska is actually a good idea.

To all the Californian professionals…

Don’t set up a hub in Alaska. Really its bad. Winters are nice, usually below 0. Summers are brutal.  Occasionally its 80 degrees and we melt. There are bears everywhere. They rarely attack but they love the taste of Cuban fiber. Locals love to carry big scary guns. Not “assault rifles” those are considered starter weapons when the 1st graders go hunting.  Real men pack weapons that could disable an armored car. You can’t paddle on the rivers they are so full of fish. The sled dogs love to lick your face.  Better stay in California.  The surf is better.

So…. I won’t be able to buy denatured alcohol ?  Do I have that right ?

No Luke, it’s Oregon that’s so terrible, don’t come here.  Miserable mold, depressing endless days of continual mist, I forget, is there supposed to be a yellow circular object in the sky.  It’s terrible here… : )

If you live in Califronia, you will not be able to purchase Denatured Alcohol sold as a solvent.  You will be able to buy items like HEET which a fuel additive (~98% methanol).  You will be able to purchase Everclear (~75% ethanol) and Hand Sanitizer (70% ethanol).  Also gel alcohols chaffing fuels and other assorted alcohol based fuels.

Everclear is now legal?

I think you all get the low proof Everclear, Nick.

Does anyone know how the lower proof Everclear performs compared to denatured alcohol? Where can it be purchased in Calif?

Since I retired I have gone back to liquid and alcohol stoves to save money. Still have a few gas canisters left and probably a dozen Esbit cubes. I did this cost analysis a few years ago.

When I did the cost analysis above, I used $15 a gallon for white gas. A couple weeks ago Joyce went to Walmart because there was a long line at Costco (we never shop at Walmart). She called and asked if I needed anything. Yeah, I need a gallon of white gas. So I looked it up so I could send her a picture of what it is. They had Crown brand white gas at $8.83 a gallon, so she bought two. Back in the early ‘70s Chevron sold bulk Blazo for 35 cents a gallon.

Buy one of these for $4

Then buy cheap butane cartridges from the Korean grocer.  Maybe $1.50 for 8 ounces.  Plus, you can use 110 g canisters/fill the canister with the exact amount you want

Then, butane is about as cheap as those others

now I’m going to get ads for butane adapters : )

that will displace the ads for Gossamer Gear and MLD tents

In California, you can purchase 151 proof Everclear.  Several other Stated cary the 190 proof stuff.