Which brand of denatured alcohol? Where to get it in US?

"I store my alcohol in a tight bottle inside a Ziploc"

Lots of backpackers carry their alcohol in a small 4-ounce or 8-ounce plastic bottle. The problem is the tall/skinny form factor. A bottle would fit my needs better if it could be very short and fat, shorter and fatter than an apple.

What is out there that I could recycle?

–B.G.–

Yeah, I’m totally with you there. I’d like something a bit more squat.

Certain 8oz drink bottles are perfect, but…

…but I’m no longer willing to use them now that my little girl is old enough to get into them.

Maybe one of the cottage gear manufacturers could come out with something. It’s clearly something that would be useful.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

I believe the CocaCola company actually packages soda in a round, PET bottle around the holidays. Now would be a good time to get a 6 pack….

Yeah, I think I’ve seen those. Still looks a bit too much like a drink bottle, but maybe if I peel the label off. The thing that would really make my day would be if the bottle fit my Packafeather cap. Probably wishful thinking. Most useful cap though.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

I used to store my alky in 16oz water bottles. they weight next to nothing (I think 10g) and if you don't need 16oz of fuel, don't fill it up all the way. Bulk of that large bottle less than half way full being the only downside- and child safety…which is why I quit using them. I've got some little ones who really like drinking out of plastic bottles (dunno why, crazy kid thing) and they can't read so writing "POISON! STOVE FUEL" and skulls and crossbones aren't much of a deterrent.

Now I use much heavier child proof lid, cough syrup bottles. I've got a 4oz Robitussin bottle (was expired, cleaned it out, scrubbed off the label) and an 8oz Vicks vaporizer (to add to humidifier, NyQuil bottles would also be pretty good, I would think) bottle. They are fantastic, with really nice child proof lids. The Vicks bottle is a better quality bottle than the Robitussin bottle, but they both get the job done. The Vicks bottle is clear so I added some food coloring to the fuel in that bottle, just for fun…

I'll post some pics when I get a chance to take some.

BM

FWIW Zelph has a flip top dispensing cap that fits the 12 ounce bottle of yellow HEET.

The Cap

Don’t remove the foil seal on the bottle of HEET. Instead pierce the foil seal with a coathanger wire or some other tool and then screw on the cap from Zelph. I’d think you should be able to finely control the amount of fuel dispensed by squeezing the bottle.

The yellow HEET bottle looks nothing like any juice bottle, soft drink bottle or water bottle. But there is no way to figure what a kid might do or think.

I really like the idea of the child proof cap as used for fuel bottles. It is a pity that there is no way to combine the two.

I too at one time used food coloring to “dye” my fuel and make it easily distinguishable. I have come to realize that these days though all manner of sports drinks and soft drinks are “dyed” with all the colors of the visible light spectrum. If stored in a regular water bottle or drink bottle the “dyed” fuel presents an attractive hazard to youngsters. Using the child proof caps on these kinds of bottles could definitely help to avoid accidental ingestion.

Know where the young ones are, know where your fuel is and store it as safely as possible. As soon as your little ones are old enough, explain to them what is in your fuel storage bottle. Let them know that it will make them sick or worse. Educate, inform and warn them while trying not to “frighten the munchkins out of their minds”.

Party On,

Newton

Now that is a pretty nice cap. I’m going to have to get one of those.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Do you really need a childproof lid?

For an 8-ounce alcohol container, I use a plastic bottle that previously contained dishwasher rinse agent. The flip-top cap can be removed for filling.

–B.G.–

Is there a consensus on the safest alcohol fuel that's also efficient and economical (that knocks out Everclear from the running), given how many people keep their fuel bottle in their pot?

Also, do you store your alcohol fuel bottle inside your pot? It's so convenient to keep everything in there, but as Zen Stoves has noted and others have noted in this thread:

"methanol…is also a very poisonous fuel and you should consider the health concerns of this fuel if you decide to use it long term (thru-hikers beware and others may want to avoid storing contaminated stoves in their cook pots or bowls)."

http://zenstoves.net/Stoves.htm

There are several brands of denatured alcohol that are 95 or more percent ethanol. I get 'Klean Strip Green" at my local Lowes for $7.26 a quart.

Before the extreme and beyond extreme fire dangers popped up here in CO I carried an etOH stove and all the junk in my pot, but the 12-20 oz of fuel in the outer side pocket of my pack. Now I carry a canister stove.

I personally understand the methanol is hazardous to breathe, but feel that fear is greatly overrated from a personal health standpoint, as I am several feet from a tightly windcreened stove for 99% of my burn time. Not much opportunity to breathe that in.

It's a very high concentration of Ethanol (90+ percent) with just a wee bit of other goodies (Isopropyl Alcohol and Methyl Ethyl Ketone) used to denature the finished product. This stuff is actually formulated and approved for indoor use with the increasing popularity of ethanol burning fireplaces.

http://www.e-nrg.com/

We just had a brief discussion here:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=64834&skip_to_post=554829#554829

How does the e-nrg burn? I'm just curious as I tried the Klean strip green and it gave off a rather unpleasant smell during combustion. Cheers

Very hot due to the high concentration of Ethanol. It has a faint odor similar to rubbing alcohol in liquid form, but it burns with absolutely NO discernable odor. At just over $6 a quart, it's a "best buy" IMO and I'd likely still buy it if it cost much more.

tempting to order a 12 pack and split it with some locals here in the SF Bay area.

I've ordered a case, in another thread.

Tried E-nrg. Agree it burns very hot. But I'm amazed B. Kelly that you didn't detect any odor when burning it. It most certainly has nasty additives that smell when burned. While not as bad as Esbit or some other alcohol mixtures, it's not pleasant – still smells like some nasty stuff burning – and I can't believe anyone would burn this indoors unless a chimney is carrying all the fumes straight out of the room/house.

Harald, how'd you find it?

FYI,  Denatured Alcohol can no longer be purchased in California. I live in California and there is no longer a local source so if you are planning to visit and purchase some locally, be aware that is no longer an option.

WOW, Really?  How come you can’t purchase it anymore?  I assume you can still buy Yellow HEET?  I normally fly into Vegas when I backpack in California, but I’m doing another trip there this year and could fly into the west side of the Sierra.

California Air Resources Board (CARB) implimented this in order to reduce Volitile Organic Componds (VOC).  The industrial use of alcohol has been regulated for years, it is now making its way down to the consumers.  Given the air quality in Southern California, this is not suprising to me.

Lowe’s, Home Depot, ACE Hardware.

Lowe’s, Home Depot, ACE Hardware

I checked my local Home Depot and Ace Hardware, no denatured alcohol on the shelves. Maybe on line? I ordered a small can on Amazon to test the online waters, so they are at least shipping product to California, so far.

I wonder what the folks at Trail Designs think about this? I personally do not care for canister stoves, but that may be the only way to go in California for the foreseeable future.

I wondered if it is the South Coast Air Quality Management District, SCAQMD (which covers the LA basin, north over the Grapevine I-5 corridor east past San Bernardino and Palm Spring and south halfway to San Diego), or California Air Resources Board (CARB).  SCAQMD has, understandably, been more restrictive of whole categories of chemicals down to the retail level than CARB.  For instance, back in 1992, the SCAQMD banned the sale of charcoal lighter fluid and self-light charcoal since an electric coil or a crumbled newspaper in a metal cylinder lights charcoal with much less VOC emissions.  Some of SCAQMD’s regional regulations later become CARB statewide regs.

Jon says it was CARB which would be statewide. Those of you who find no denatured alcohol on the shelves, can you mention *where* in California you didn’t find it?

Brad: I’d guess you can still buy yellow HEET because its intended use is to go into a gas tank and be burned by the car’s engine.  California air authorities like “oxygenates” in motor fuels and require certain levels, resulting in their “boutique” gasoline and more volatile fuel markets (one CA refinery fire while another refinery is undergoing a routine turnaround can cause prices to spike because you can’t ship non-CA gasoline in from other areas).

Also, Brad: CARB and SCAQMD found that there are much lower-VOC alternatives to the use of alcohol as a solvent, typically water-based cleaning solutions.  And that its use results in most of the VOCs ending up in the atmosphere.  Versus in an auto-body paint shop, where (there are also requirements to use low-VOC paints and solvents, but) they must capture and abate their emissions – through activated carbon, a thermal-oxidation or catalytic-oxidation unit.

Maybe folks could keep an eye out, in LA and statewide and report on the availability fo yellow HEET.

I live in the Santa Barbara area, nothing on the shelves here. My understanding. Is the ban is statewide.

Axel: My experience is that Amazon’s implementation of various bans (1) takes a while, (2) is imperfect, and (3) is even more imperfect with non-Amazon, third-party (particularly out-of-their-garage) sellers.  If you crash around a lot, eventually, someone somewhere will ship you what you want.  If not on Amazon, then on eBay.

One shipping hint we almost all know: you can send Amazon packages to “David Thomas, General Delivery, Lone Pine, CA, 93545” although I’m usually using, “”David Thomas, General Delivery, Adak AK, 99546”.

One shipping hint fewer people know but that I’ve used sometimes is, “David Thomas, guest staying 12-12-2019; Hold at Front Desk; Los Angeles Airport Hilton; 5711 West Century Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90045” if you’re flying somewhere.

I’ve also left bear spray and stove fuel for BPLer’s flying to Alaska – either at their AirBnB or at some point along their travels (say, in a plastic bag, under some rocks, right behind the Milepost 231 sign on the Parks Highway).  You could put out such a request prior to a trip.