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Cold Soak Optional System.Review.


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  • #3552565
    Stormin
    Spectator

    @stormin-stove-systems

    Locale: East Anglia

    The System is now modified to include aTitanium Esbit Tray and a silicone lip protection band. Wider diameter cosys and fully reversible windshield.

    ————
    Stormin: you are pushing the limits of the Gear channel a little too hard. Please use Gear Deals in future.
    Roger Caffin
    Moderator
    BPL

    #3552574
    Opogobalus
    BPL Member

    @opagobalus

    Interesting Norman. I got one of your systems as a first foray into alcohol stoves, and have mostly given up on the system. It works well with dehydrated meals, but as I have specific dietary needs and most of my use tends to be overseas, I don’t normally have access to dehydrated meals if I want a anything nutritional. It means I eat a lot of lentils and stuff that needs “proper” cooking, which is a lot trickier with an alcohol stove. When I had days where I stopped early, I found cold soaking lentils or whatever for a 1+hrs would reduce the cook time and make it easier with the alcohol stove.

    So this system appeals. The option to start soaking stuff while hiking for a few more hours is nice – and it’s nice redundancy (I’ve once run out of fuel, so I always have a meal or two I leave to the end that can be cold soaked). And the weight is better than most TI pots.

    A couple of questions:

    1) You sell with a lot of “accessories.” I’m not interested in the 500mL pot (I don’t bother with beverages unless I’m on a rare group trip), or it’s cozy, the lip protector gizmo, or the solid fuel tray. Would one be able to purchase without all these redundant items?

    I gather the second pot is a way to keep the stove elements safe while making the storage vessel useful as well – which I’ll grant is clever if you’re a beverage consumer.

    2) are you making the pots/canisters yourself?

    3) you say you need to be careful with the pot/canister because it’s softer. How soft are we talking? Wrapping it in spare clothes makes sense to protect it, but my only spare clothes is normally my puffy or rain shell (and the former is at the bottom of my pack with my sleeping bag, so not really accessible to act as bubble wrap).

    #3552583
    Stormin
    Spectator

    @stormin-stove-systems

    Locale: East Anglia

    Thanks for your interest Jonathan, the System is made up of all the elements listed. The function of the System relies on each element as a whole. All elements are replaceable and can be purchased seperately by request. I do not make the cans myself, the gauge of the aluminium is .04  and will dent if not handled with some due care.  In the middle of your pack is ideal storage. Brian, in the review, carried his in a side pocket of his HMG pack and had no issues.

     

     

     

    #3552847
    Opogobalus
    BPL Member

    @opagobalus

    Thanks N. I really like the idea, but the durability concerns are a little off putting. I normally clean with river silt/stones for example, which you advise not to. And the notion that it needs to be protected enough that it should be kept padded in the middle of the pack is a problem. If something holding liquid is that fragile, the risk of damage causing a leak seems higher. And if that happens when it’s in the middle of my pack (ie with my quilt and sleeping clothes)…

    Might have to pass for now.

    @mods. I think this does belong in the gear discussion section as it’s a fairly innovative and new idea. I would miss it in the gear deals section and would be curious to how any discussion from others unfolds.

    #3552877
    Stormin
    Spectator

    @stormin-stove-systems

    Locale: East Anglia

    Jonathan,  Although I advise to treat these pots with some thought, they are still capable of doing the duty of cold soaking and heating.I don’t think river sand and grit is a good medium for cleaning any pot, especially teflon or non stick coated. Aluminium titanium and stainless steel are easily abraided by sandpaper/emerey cloth, which in effect river sand and grit are. I find heather or birch stalks make a good pan scrub, much easier on the metal. The pots are the same thickness as the current toaks light and evernew titanium pots and pans, but obviously not as hard. I doubt you would puncture the cans with normal use, just a little thought on how you treat them is all I advise.

    #3552880
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Repeted removal of the lid seal will cause the seal to deteriorate quickly. Keeping it clean will be bloody chalenge. You’ll be luck if it doesn’t get blown away in the wind. Having to deal with the removal of the lid seal and it’s replacement is a turn off/buyer beware ;)

    Using a pot lifter on the soft aluminum threads will cause denting and screw on lid will be bloody hell to screw back onto the pot.

    Putting the silicone lip guard onto the pot will be dificult and likely cause deforming of the pot body because of how easy the soft aluminum deforms.

    The coating on the outside of the pot is going to be adversely affected by the stove flames and will start to peel off.

    I seriously doubt that your containers were meant to be cooked in. They were made for dry storage of food.

    The bloke that reviewed your kit said he had negative issues with the system; containers were too soft. What were the other negatives that were said to have been resolved?

     

    #3552890
    Stormin
    Spectator

    @stormin-stove-systems

    Locale: East Anglia

    Dan.Y,The aluminium threads are robust enough to take repeated lifting/holding duty. The aluminium is not as soft as you think.The lid seal is not liable to deteriorate with removal and replacement, it is siliconebased and fits exactly the inner diameter of the lid. This System is designed for use in the tent vestibule, so the blowing away point is negative comment. The silicone lip guard is easily slipped over the threads, being 25 mm wide and  a conical shape, tapering from 75mm to 70 mm, means the widest opening slips over the pot threads with no problem. The  500 ml pot, which the silicone band is provided for is 82mm diameter and does not deform during the process. There is no coating on the inside or outside of these cans, otherwise I would not be using them., I have no problem heating food in these pots. Brian, who trialed the System, never gave any negative indication of deforming of the pots, in fact the pictures show the opposite. Your negativity shows your ignorance of the System and its capabilities, try some humble pie.

    #3552900
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    I’ve worked with Al containers like yours to create Al Bots. Gave up on the project because of fragility of the aluminum and coating on the inside and out.

    When I ordered 12 of the containers, 9 of them were damaged in shipment due to the softness of the material.

    I added ridges to create a place for use with a bail instead of a pot grabber due to the softness of the .004 Al

    My photos

    Shows the coating peeling off due to flames/heat

    #3552904
    Stormin
    Spectator

    @stormin-stove-systems

    Locale: East Anglia

    Like I said, the pots I’m using have no coating. Don’t assume your pots are from the same source as mine. Different manufacturers use different processes.

    #3552914
    Opogobalus
    BPL Member

    @opagobalus

    I don’t use Teflon or non-stick pots, and haven’t (as far as I’m aware) had problems using river sediment in cleaning pots. I also use duff as well, but normally I’m camped up high where there are mostly stones and snow grass around. I suppose I could switch to using snow grass or tussock, but river silt is great if something gets stuck in the pot.

    How long did you use yours in testing? If it’s more a case of “be sensible” then it might be sufficient for my needs.

    #3552919
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Your pots, my pots, are used for dry storage only, not cooking. Only one source, only one CHINA :-)

    Like I said, buyers be aware of my test results with aluminum screw on containers from CHINA.

    Stormin, be brave, give us the source of your containers with full manufacture specifications. :-)

    #3552953
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Oh yes, found a photo of the ones that were damaged in shipment and then returned.

     

     

    #3552956
    Stormin
    Spectator

    @stormin-stove-systems

    Locale: East Anglia

    Dan. Y, My sources for my materials are my business, just because you bought rubbish,  then try to tar my cans with the same brush sounds a bit like sour grapes. Whats up with you, has nobody stroked your ego lately.

    #3552959
    Stormin
    Spectator

    @stormin-stove-systems

    Locale: East Anglia

    Jonathan, I used a prototye System in May of this year on the Great Outdoors Challenge in Scotland, a two week long hike across the wilds of that beautiful country. The 750 can took a beating but survived. Probably down to my own ineptitude and a reflectix cosy not fit for the purpose. After ironing out the shortcomings, the System was sent out to three triallists for testing. Brian Outdoors, a Danish blogger was one, Another guy in the lake district, who is not a blogger or web affiliated also reported back fovourably. I am still awaiting the third report which will be published when final results are known. The negative feedbacks concerned the Support pins being too far apart in the windshield, this made the 500 pot liable to tipping if not centralised, now rectified. The second problem was the tight fit of the wool felt cosies, this caused trouble by the heated pot coming into close contact with the wool felt, which then contracted as a reaction to the heated pot, eventually relaxing as the temperatures equalised, now resolved with wider diameter cosies. One other modification being to equalise the air intake and exhaust holes on the windshield and the addition of Support pin holes for esbit burning. This now makes the windshield equal in both planes and fully reversible. Being sensible is probably apt with this System.

     

    #3552961
    Opogobalus
    BPL Member

    @opagobalus

    Thanks for that. Not in a position to order something now but will consider it again in a few months.

    #3552968
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Stormin said:

    There is no coating on the inside or outside of these cans, otherwise I would not be using them.,

    These photos of your system clearly show there is a shiny coating on the inside. If there was no coating, the surface would be dull.

    Stormin Stove Sytems

    Stormin Stove Sytems

    REFLECTIVE surfaces indicate COATING

    Stormin Stove Sytems

    USING POT GRABBER ON THREADS………….NOT GOOD

    Stormin Stove Sytems

    HAVING TO REMOVE AND REPLACE SILICONE BASED SEALS IS GOING TO BE A “PITA”

    Stormin Stove Sytems

    Stormin Stove Sytems

    Like I said, just some observations.

    I quote “Brian” :

    • can be damaged easily if you don’t pack it correctly

    #3552978
    Stormin
    Spectator

    @stormin-stove-systems

    Locale: East Anglia

    <p style=”text-align: center;”>Dan.Y.</p>
    Why do you persist with your pathetic attempt to discredit my character. You do not know or will not take my word or credit me with anything I have said or submitted about my System. You continue to doubt and question my integrity and the quality of my product without any knowledge of the materials used. You need to stand back and take a good look at yourself, you are actually starting to look a little obsessed with your own opinion. If you have any issues I know a good psychologist.

    #3552989
    Ken Thompson
    BPL Member

    @here

    Locale: Right there

    You guys are cute.

    Title says review, but no review, just cottage guys bickering.

    Edit: read the review. Several nights is a short test.  But the bickering…

    #3552997
    Stormin
    Spectator

    @stormin-stove-systems

    Locale: East Anglia
    #3553005
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    STORMIN NORMIN we’ve met before. I know your character, you show us it quite nicely here. 

    Lighten up, were just having a conversation here. We’re just sharing some obvious information. I show your photos and tell you what I see.

    Here, I’ll share some info on the containers I purchased and then you can share the same type on your containers. You don’t have to tell us who your supplier is, just give us a description offered by the manufacturer.

    Thank you Stormin Norman for sharing.

    Ken, we be cute 

    #3553229
    Jon Fong
    BPL Member

    @jonfong

    Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR

    Stormin,

    Interesting concept.  Looks like it will fill a niche as Vargo does not seem to offer the Stainless Steel version of the BOT anymore and the Ti version is ~$100 US.  Its just my opinion but the $37 pound / $47.5 USD seems a bit high; that being said, it may be more attractive if you only offered just the 750 ml version.  My 2 cents – keep up the innovations and best wishes!

    #3553254
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    I have 6 SS Vargo Bots in stock that I’m creating kits with titanium windscreens and the new Starlyte XL2 stove. Seems like I got the last of the SS Bots. The Vargo Ti Bots are awesome, have 6 of those also that will be used in kits.

    Stormin Normin, best wishes!

    #3553335
    Dan Y
    BPL Member

    @zelph2

    Jon,

    An alternative to the Vargo Bots is the

    KEITH TI6300 900ML TITANIUM POT MULTIPURPOSE TITANIUM RICE COOKER

    https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/keith-ti6300-900ml-titanium-pot-multipurpose-titanium-rice-cooker/

    #3553342
    Jon Fong
    BPL Member

    @jonfong

    Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR

    I cold soak all of the time; I just use a zip lock bag.  If one wanted to cold soak and cook in the same container, all of these options can/will work.  With Vargo dropping the Stainless Steel BOT, the only other options seem to be titanium versions that are pushing $100.  The Keith pot (IMO) is expensive, weighs too much (256 grams) and really doesn’t offer much benefit.  Yes, you can steam rice in it, but I can make rice in a plain old pot.  Stormin’s product offers a lower cost option that will probable meet a number of peoples need’s.  This is a UL crowd that grew up using beer can containers, so using a thin walled aluminum container has been demonstrated.  Annealing of the thread shouldn’t be an issue for as long as you have some liquid in the pot the aluminum won’t get that hot.  Yes the thread may get damaged if you’re a brute, but again UL customers understand these trade-offs.  My recommendation earlier was for Stormin to offer just the 750 ml pot as it would be possible to get the price point down to ~`1/3 that of the Ti option.  Then I think the product could get some traction.  My 2 cents.

    #3553345
    Stormin
    Spectator

    @stormin-stove-systems

    Locale: East Anglia

    Thanks for your 2 cents Jon. The reason I include the two pots is using the 500 mainly for storing all of the components of the System, at the same time utilising it’s capacity for boiling water. The 750 pot only needs heating to 80- 90°C for 10 mins, this should be enough  for most rehydrated food. I am considering lowering the price for the System.

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