Arcteryx Norvan SL – 4.2 oz Rain Shell with Gore Tex Permanent Beading Surface

Looks like Great Smoky Mountain National Park :)

Without a fabric surface to wet out, it “should” be waterproof long term, it’s long term durability is in question however.

One reason wp/b jackets “leak” is fit.  Jackets can let water in around the hood or up the cuffs, etc and make it seem like the fabric is leaking, when in fact is isn’t the fabric at all.  Fit is every bit as important as the fabric or membrane.

Feels like a springy-ish wire in the brim that holds its shape well.

Keep us informed on how good it works (particularly on how good it works in strong wind in holding the shape of the brim). Maybe it’s good enough that Dead Bird can also begin to use it in their other shells.

Man, it’s getting tougher to resist pulling out the credit card …4.2 oz for a rain jacket (sans tag) that mostly stays in the pack is tough to beat.

My other shells may be relegated to snow (my Westcomb eVent is a little large on me – perfect for a thick fleece or thin Climasheild ) or sacrificed to bushwhacks/campfire-prone group trips (OR Helium II)

Update on the Norvan SL. Had it in the rain for two hours today. Noticed a couple things:

– The hood around the neck could be tighter when fully cinched. Because the hood cincher is only in the back and not on side, a bit of wind-driven rain can sneak in. Something #Arcteryx needs to listen to and change for the next version. This is a biggie for me as it has to do with comfort while walking. It’s not bad, but certainly can be better.
– The extra long butt hem is really nice in the rain. The jack does not leak into the pants.
– Really nice side-benefit to the permanently beading fabric: the jacket dries in less than a few minutes. By far, far, far the fastest drying rain jacket I’ve had.
– Durability remains my biggest worry. It’s paper thin and really meant for running instead of pack straps. I’ll be taking it on Presidential Traverse in a few weeks, so we’ll how it holds up.
– Hem bungie is really not necessary, it works well as is
– I can take this jacket to a client meeting and on the trail (already done)

Some shots of the interesting features and beading after two hours below. Consensus – It’s really freaking waterproof, looks great, but is paper thin. Some things Arcteryx can work on:
1) Improve to the sealing side of the hood
2) Add tape patches to shoulder area for pack straps
3) Add similar self-sealing micro pit vents from the Norvan jacket

Anyone try it yet? Really surprised people are not jumping all over this. A 4.2oz fully-featured waterptoof-breathable SUL rain shell with permanent beading surface at 4.2oz! Where are the early adopters??

My only concern is durability of pack straps and belt. Put duct tape on the shoulder for extra durability – we’ll see how it does.

I think most don’t care for dead bird. I bought a bunch of it as a newbie from reading OGL and then you realize it’s overpriced, made in China, and pretentious.

Durability concerns and a hefty price tags will certainly keep early adopters skepticism in charge of their wallets.

I know – durability concerns, dead bird, vanity, etc.

BUT.

This is BY FAR THE LIGHTEST, massively breathable shell out there that on top of everything doesn’t use DWR and does not wet out. Again – it does not wet out. It also does not need to dry out – you shake it at the end and the water just falls off. And there is an adjustable hood. Why are we not discussing it, at the very least?! This is seriously the coolest piece of kit I’ve seen this year. Where are my peoples at? Am I the only one that’s seeing (and using) the potential here?

Been using the Norvan SL over the past month and totally liking it. It looks damn good too, even with careful duct tape additions on shoulders. Wish the dead bird would look at this not just as a running shell, but a hiking one as well. Add UL durability patches around the waist and shoulders and Norvan-like pit slits. Once added, this jacket would be golden.

The new Columbia Outdry shell got a big reception here. Why not this, it’s a good 8-10oz lighter?

I think we’re all so numb to “waterproof breathable” marketing claims it’s hard to get excited.

I would have jumped on one, or Columbia’s but 1) have a nice eVent shell and 2) trying ponchos for a change.

It’s too expensive.  For cost efficiency, Driducks are just a little heavier and cost $20.  I totally get that.  But…. In my opinion….I simply cannot deny that the Norvan SL is the best rain shell I’ve ever owned.   Hands down.  Super breathable, doesn’t wet out, zipper slides nicely, and it has the best hood I’ve ever seen.  Feels like a nice shelter for my head vs a wet clammy hood.  I say this half ashamed that I paid so much.  But I have more expensive heavier goretex shells that are half as good IMO.      All depends on your values.  If your care about weight and breathablity more than durability and cost efficiency, this is your jacket.

That said, I’m no expert.   I’ve only used it on day hikes in the rain.  (Didn’t rain during my last few backpacking trips so it stayed in my pack) No abrasion yet.  But it only had to endure a daypack stuffed with water bottles to simulate load for a few hours at a time.   It’s coming with me on the JMT for sure, so I’ll provide an update when I finish that in Sept.

Not sure this would survive the  PCT.  I think we need a real world usage report for that.

This is not meant as anything negative or personal but have people had it out in real rain yet? I mean Scotland, Eric chan area or (for me), typhoon season like weather?

As in, all day sustained mid to heavy, to ‘loose the trail in 5 minutes’ continuous rain?

Without that kind of weather in my personal experience it is difficult to say how waterproof a jacket is.

And it is also difficult to say how breathable that jacket is.

It looks very interesting for sure. And Arcteryx sure know how to design a good pattern/fit.

Well, here‘s a review.

Yeah thanks, I read that. I’m a bit sceptical of reviews that simply talk about rain. Could be a simple 2~3 hour sprinkle. I’d like to hear how it stood up in some hellacious rain. Or middle but continuous sustained rain the whole day.

Again, looks great.

I guess that when it is a waterproof material in just 1 hour rain, it will also be waterproof in continuous rain during several days. The importance is the intensity of the rain, not the duration. One hour of heavy rain tells you more (in general) than days of continous light drizzle.

I would say the inverse

short heavy rain doesnt tell you much, any decent jacket should be able to survive that

its when there are days of sustained freezing rain and 100% humidity (scots add in high winds) …. Thats why will tell you if yr jacket works

the reason why i dont think too many folks are excited about it is because most UL jackets are for “just in case” use … And for that something like driducks or a helium generally works fine

for serious sustained rain we probably have a beefier rain jacket anyways

the time when you most need “permanent” DWR is for stuff like bushwhacking or other abrasive activities … Or for prolongued continuous use in sustained rain

a 4oz rain shell probably doesnt have the longer term durability for such …

the high price doesnt help either

and not many folks here will “ruin” a new dead bird with duct tape

;)

Had it in two heavy rainstorms – it’s like wearing a Star Wars shield. No seeping, even after prolonged time. On all of my 3L jackets, event and Neoshell, the DWR  soaks through after an hour. This one keeps going.

I do think the thin fabric will wear out around the shoulders and hip belt faster than other jackets. When it does, these areas will probably get soaked relatively fast. That’s why I put tape on shoulders right after I bought it.

Was it freezing rain?

in freezing rain, the rain cools the rain shell down … Then your body vapour hits the shell, instant condensation on the inside …

over several days youll find water ingress points as well … Hoods, sleeves and hems … Especially if there are good winds, or you need to use yr hands (fixed ropes, grab rocks/roots, using poles)

goretex is usually pretty good with the waterproofness of their fabrics … But over a sustained rain period the fit and feature of the jacket do come into play

one thing about the duct tape … It probably voided the warranty on the jacket

;)

in freezing rain, the rain cools the rain shell down … Then your body vapour hits the shell, instant condensation on the inside …

The issue here: why does it cool the shell down ? Because it already is a low ambient temperature is partially true. But certainly also because their is a fabric that can absorb the freezing rain. Only, there is no such fabric here.

I find this happens even when the DWR is fresh …

even windshirts in ~100% humidity (but not raining) near freezing have internal condensations issues …. And even low CFM windshirts are more “breathable” than the best rain jackets

370$ canadian for a rain shell that may not last is quite a bit of moolah (and i can get em for 40%+ off) … Especially if its occasional use

;)

Is this even available to buy any more? I’m struggling to find a vendor (being in Aus doesn’t help).

Seems like REI have stopped selling…was the price so crazy that no one would touch it???

REI is promoting the North Face version of GTX active so that’s likely why they aren’t offering the dead bird jacket. At $250 it’s still pricey.

If people are interested in increasing the durability of these PTFE based jackets, you could wear a thin, lightweight polypropylene baselayer over the jacket.

These are so breathable, that it wouldn’t appreciably affect the breathability of the jacket, but it would greatly protect it from pack and other abrasion.

When not using the rain jacket, the PP baselayer can pull double duty as a midlayer (considering the stinkiness of PP, i don’t consider it suitable as a baselayer, but it works decently as a midlayer).

Unfortunately, there’s not a whole lot of lighter, thinner PP baselayers being made currently.  One of the few that i’ve found is made by Terramar brand and can usually be found on ebay.

However, as mentioned previously, there are much less expensive combo’s that could also work as far as not needing a DWR and being more breathable than traditional membrane based WPB jackets.

I’m thinking of taking some Kite tyvek, and combining it with some DIY silicone treated, very breathable 1.1 oz/yd2 nylon as the outer, and make a poncho out of it.  Like EPIC, the new Goretex PTFE, and PP based stuff, the above would need to be periodically well rinsed and very occasionally deep cleansed, to maintain the DWR properties.

This is because neither silicone, PTFE, or polypropylene have low enough surface energy to completely repel oils.  As oils adhere to the surface of these, other contaminants  will adhere more and more, increasing the surface energy and reducing water repellency.

even windshirts in ~100% humidity (but not raining) near freezing have internal condensations issues ….

Sure, but again you should ask: what makes the inside of the jacket so cold that condensation there occurs ? E.g. I nearly always just need a thin baselayer and a windshirt and in heavy and/or prolonged rain I add the rainlayer (so also in freezing rain). As it is pretty close to my body, it is just a bit colder than my core temp but way higher than the dewpoint (if the shell is breathable enough). But if you wear a fleece or another insulation piece between your core and your rainlayer, you shelter the rainlayer from the coretemperature what makes it easier for condensation to occur.

its not the inside of the jacket thats cold … but the shell … i generally try not to wear a fleece under a windshirt when active, i would overheat unless it was pretty damn cold

in the case of a rain jacket the cold rain hits the shell … and even if it rolls off with fresh DWR … this cools the shell quite a bit, so that when your hot body vapour hits it, it condenses

and in humid environments you dont have much of a humidity differential to push out the moisture

when you get to days of freezing rain, it doesnt matter what you have, youll get quite damp if not wet eventually, from water ingress if nothing else

its all a moot point as the norvan SL is not designed for these conditions … as i said the times when you need “permanent DWR” is for heavy prolongued rain use in abrasive environments

not as a “just in case” jacket at that price

now if dead bird made a more durable shell with the permanent DWR along the lines of the alpha sv …

;)

in the case of a rain jacket the cold rain hits the shell … and even if it rolls off with fresh DWR … this cools the shell quite a bit

have you measured this because even as I’m running hot and sweat easy, I’ll never had this happen ? :)