Any podiatrist, or other foot specialist here wanna chime in on barefoot shoes?

Both my wife and I live either barefoot or with flip-flops or similar. I am 72, and my feet are FINE.
I suspect you might maybe have collected a bruise or two somewhere?

Cheers
PS: I don’t think our ancestors had arch supports or gel soles or pronation control or whatever when they spread around the world.

quite a bit in the archives

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/87089/

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/103200/

https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/76291/

Hope you find your answer

Roger – Thanks. My thoughts have been that if ones feet are encased in a traditional shoe, all the little muscles will not get the exercise they need which, will, eventually lead to issues… somewhere.

Something in the back of my mind though, has been wondering if certain “barefoot” shoes can alter things just enough that they too can cause problems of their own… even those who are conditioned to going barefoot, such as myself. I’ve always felt it would be more comfortable, for me, to jog barefoot, on any surface, than jog with a certain pair of barefoot, ultra thin sandals I’ve been wearing so much.

I too thought I had a little bruise. Then things have rapidly migrated from one ball to the heel, then to the other foot. For the lack of a better description, it’s as if the natural pads on my heels and balls are smashed, leaving no cushion. It’s uncomfortable enough now standing barefoot that I wear Crocs while showering. So bummed too as I’ve been planning a trip for over 1 yr, leaving Thursday… and now this. I bought a pair of Altra Timps, hoping that they will somehow allow me to go. Crazy!

Thanks, Ken. I will look through when I have time.

I wish I could put your data into a formula and return a dogmatic solution for you.

I think we’ve all observed the “barefoot revolution” long enough to know that human physiology is extraordinarily complex and it’s very difficult to diagnose root causes of physiological problems.

Maybe there’s a nutritional deficiency, a genetic limitation, an old poorly-healed injury, something limiting your biomechanics elsewhere in the spinal musculoskeletal chain, who knows.

In my own experience in dealing with foot problems, I’ve *always* been able to fully heal my feet by (a) diversifying the footwear I wear (which diversifies the muscles/tendon/ligament stresses) and (b) using highly-cushioned footwear when I have injuries and (c) transitioning back into “minimalist” shoes slowly again.

Thanks, Ryan. I wish you had a solution for me too!

My gut feeling is that I should see a professional… but, from the bitter experience of traditional practitioners who have 8-10 minutes per patient, and seem to go after treating symptoms rather than addressing root causes, I dread going. I know there are good folks out there… but finding them seems to be a big challenge, costly, and time consuming.

I have Restless Leg Syndrome which causes some to have leg and foot pain. As little as is understood with RLS, it could even be related to that. Hope not!

I like your thoughts on highly cushioned footwear while dealing with whatever I have going on… hence my reason for the Altra Timps. They just feel so ridiculous on my feet… like I’m wearing stilts. They are practically 3x taller than what I’m used to. If they get me out though… without twisting an ankle 20 miles into peopleless territory, I’ll be one happy camper!

Ken – I just finished reading through the links you provided. Ironically, I was the last poster in the last link. I had asked if anyone was barefoot backpacking. No response.

Thanks all. Keep the replies coming! I enjoy reading them as I rest my feet.

What you report sounds somewhat like what I’ve experienced (without the barefoot shoes part).  Several years ago I had a lot of metatarsal pain, under one ball of the foot.  A podiatrist told me to wear green superfeet insoles; that seemed to get rid of the metatarsal pain, but then I got plantar fasciitis, first in that foot, then later in the other.  In my case, it seemed to be that my calf muscles were too tight; I’d gone from being rather sedentary to hiking a lot, and not stretching.  I don’t know that my situation will inform regarding yours at all, since you sound pretty fit, but you might try doing calf stretches if you’re not doing them.

I’ve never been a barefoot runner, but after wearing minimalist style shoes for over 6 years (Vivobarefoot or Xero shoes for work, running in Merrell Trail Gloves, backpacking in Altra Superiors), I had some pain in the area around the ball of my foot. The area felt a little loose and hot, like a blister, but no blister was to be found. It seemed like I had no padding there. I started wearing some cushiony shoes (Altra Escalantes) for walking and running, and within a few weeks, everything felt normal again. I guess my feet were tired and just needed time to recover? Ryan’s advice seems pretty good.

I just returned from a backpacking trip with Josh Leavitt, and he wore Five Fingers on some very impressive, rocky trails.

I have to think there’s hope :)

Then things have rapidly migrated from one ball to the heel, then to the other foot.
There is a key factor just there. The problem migrated from one foot to the other.

You do not get that happening when there is some small problem with one foot imhe. That sort of thing usually implies a more structural problem higher up, often at the hip or very possibly at the bottom of the spine. The foot problems are then just a sign that your body may be trying to compensate by changing (distorting) your normal movement. The rest of your body gets a bit upset by that.

my 2c
Cheers

Regarding  RLS, if you drink diet soda or consume anything else with Aspartame you should know that it can cause  RLS. Cutting out  aspartame made a world of difference for me.

D K – Thanks.

John H – That is exactly what happened to me. In fact, I posted about it here a ~couple weeks ago, thinking I needed thicker socks to prevent the hot spot from turning into a blister. Come to find out, it wasn’t that sort of hot spot. It turned into a pain and about the same time, I started experiencing the same pain in my heal followed by the same pain on my other foot.

Ryan – I sure hope I can get back to minimalist shoes… and soon!

Roger – That’s what I’m beginning to wonder. I’m going to attempt to find a good physical therapist who can evaluate my entire body.

James – Thanks. I don’t drink soda or eat anything with artificial sweeteners. No processed sugar either… since ~2009. I’ve tried everything under the moon and been tested for nearly as much. I won’t give up looking for a fix but have come to terms with the idea that that may never happen. Though severe, luckily, I’m able to get by on a low dose of Requip. Hate taking it but the alternative for me is only 1-2 hrs of sleep per night without … and poor sleep at that.

I think you can also get RLS from dark chocolate. Yes, really!
Worse, you can even get it from our beloved caffeine.
Do some web searching on RLS. It might be relevant.

Cheers

At one point, pain in the feet was the major problem. Thus began the search for a podiatrist, a search in vain until ran across one (Dr Burrell, Plymouth NH) who made custom orthotic footbeds that solved the problem overnight. Just as with other docs, the challenge is about finding a good one. Still using the footbeds, and the doc now makes superlight and flexible beds by waving a tablet PC around the feet to create a perfect 3D image. Might buy a pair if I hiked in minimal footwear, but the old ones still do the job for light hiking boots.

Before you try surgery, try to massage your calves twice a day for at least a month. Stand in the stairs and push the heels down to stretch the calves every day.

/harry

I had plantar fasciitis in both feet. I eventually got rid of it after going to a podiatrist and it’s come back somewhat in my right foot.

There are several treatments for PF, but going barefoot is one of the worst things you can do if you have PF. A stiff soled shoe/insert is part of the treatment. I was told to replace my shoes at least every 6 months.

BEST KNOWLEDGE = PODIATRIST and a Physical therapist

My podiatrist observed that I have bunions, and also a large neuroma in the left foot. I also have a small neuroma in the right foot. After hiking for more than a decade, hundreds of miles per year, wearing out one pair of light hikers after another – not barefoot shoes or Five Fingers, those were right out, can’t wear them – I can no longer walk barefoot anywhere, even inside the house, without pain.

I have a pair of leather boots, for the first time in my life. I always hated boots with a passion but having a thick sole that keeps me from banging toes around and walking on hard stuff helps. I have a prescribed lotion from the podiatrist that keeps the neuropathy in my feet from keeping me up all night. Without it, if I hike for a day in granite-filled trail and then sit down, taking all pressure off my feet, they start to hurt. In bed at night the muscles spasm, the neuromas ache and throb, and the toes just flat out hurt. Keeps me awake. With the anesthetic lotion I can tolerate life on my feet.

Neither the bunions nor the neuromas are accounting for the extreme pain – neither are at a point where surgery is an option. Best guess, I’ve really hurt my feet. Months of rest haven’t altered the symptoms. The lotion is about it for me. It’s expensive. But it keeps me from experiencing the worst of the pain. I’ve never done anything extreme, just hiking… no climbing, nothing.

See a doc, don’t mess around until it gets to the point that you can’t halt the damage.

“In my own experience in dealing with foot problems, I’ve *always* been able to fully heal my feet by (a) diversifying the footwear I wear (which diversifies the muscles/tendon/ligament stresses) and (b) using highly-cushioned footwear when I have injuries and (c) transitioning back into “minimalist” shoes slowly again.”

This is precisely what has worked with me. Lumping around the home in foamy Crocks was the norm for me when healing up.

As much as I am aware that my ancestors walked an average of 20 miles a day without much of any footwear, but likely walked over a large variety of terrain on a daily basis. Unfortunately, my 21st century feet are consistently subjected to perfectly horizontal surfaces of concrete, asphalt, tile, wood, vinyl, and carpet –  none of which is likely to be any good for the bare foot or a minimalist shoe. Now once my feet are in the woods or on a trail, my feet feel alive again.

Make an appointment with two podiatrists. At the appointment, let him know you will be seeing a second doctor to be sure. He will have his recommendations. If you have some Xrays, bring those. And, any MRI scan. Both will be able to identify the problem, if it is more than simple bruising. Bruising does NOT travel from foot to foot unless you are intentionally favoring one foot, then both will be bruised.

No, I really do not understand what is going on with your feet. I have RLS, but I sleep right through it. My wife complains, though. Anyway, good luck!

I struggled with RLS in a big way for a couple years.  In the end the solution that worked for me (and still works to keep me free of RLS) is stretching my hamstrings.  Give them a really good stretch (like 60 secs and far enough to really stretch) and see if that works for you.

Thank you all for the additional replies. Appreciated!

I was lucky enough to get in to see a podiatrist today. The outcome was both a little surprising and predictable at the same time. The surprise was that an x-ray revealed, what I’m told is big toe bone that is shorter than it should be which, is placing more stress on the adjacent joint which is where much of the pain is… at least the sharp shooting pain. The Dr seemed to agree with my other suspicion that the rest of the pain was coming from bruising from wearing shoes with no padding…. though I’m not 100% convinced it is that simple.

The predictable part was the anti-inflammatories he suggested I take. Standard Dr prescription for all pain, it seems. The other thing he said was to go barefoot as seldom as possible. “Does this apply to everyone or just in my case” I asked. “Everyone” he said. I took in all the shoes I’ve been wearing. Predictably they were not to his liking… except the Altra’s which he said were “ok”.

I was also told one’s shoe should not flex like a barefoot shoe but instead, be more stiff. Sensing he wasn’t keen on me asking if being encased in a stiff thick shoe all the time wouldn’t lead to foot atrophy leading to other issues…. I didn’t go there.

Very nice group of people but I’m just not sold on this idea that it’s healthier to have a snug, thick, and stiff pair of shoes wrapped around our feet all the time….at least for ALL people. I am not pretending to be a Dr, and I respect the time and effort it took him to achieve the title. However, it just doesn’t jive with my gut… and it doesn’t jive with what all Dr’s claim. In fact, I’m seeing other Dr’s recommend going barefoot as much as possible so all the little muscles in the feet get their needed exercise.

Another thing I was told would be helpful is taping. The assistant showed me how. Also, they suggested arch support which would take some of the pressure off my sore areas. Makes sense. Custom orthodics was the recommended method. $500+ plus though.

If I could turn back time, and I knew then what I believe now, I wouldn’t have worn my ultra thin sandals so much… and would have gone to a more padded zero drop shoe earlier (Altra). While I could happily hike 30 miles with Vivo Breathos a few yrs ago, it probably was a bad idea on my part to continue… though in my defense, the signs were so subtle that I didn’t think I was headed for trouble… that and the fact I mistakenly thought me feet were bullet proof. I just hope I can get them back to where they were before long….

If your big toe bone is a problem, did you ask your Doctor why it hasn’t caused an issue before? What is different now?

From your Doctor’s perspective, he probably sees lots of people with foot issues from wearing minimalist shoes. And then probably sees those people benefit from arch support, orthodics, stiff shoes, etc. I do not see how keeping your foot encased in a stiff shoe all day would be good for your foot strength though or even comfortable.

After my foot pain, I’ve settled on lightly cushioned and flexible shoes for every day use. And then staying bare foot around the house, sometimes wearing flip-flops. Hope your feet feel better for your trip.

Thanks, John. I’m not sure about your question but, I was under the impression, whether the Dr alluded to it or it was something in my own mind…. that my super thin sandals flared up the problem area. And I have been walking more lately to get into shape for this trip… though not in these sandals but my Carsons without the insole (roughly equivalent of Vivo Breathos with insole). That still doesn’t explain why I didn’t have this problem last yr though, or the yr before. The only difference is that my sandals are a little thinner now than last yr… but not by much.

That said, I just got back from seeing a physical therapist friend who evaluated my feet and thought the issue lied more in fascial distortion. She’s had a fair bit of training and success using fascial techniques on various body parts of her patients so I let her work on my feet. She said it would be immediate relief if that was the issue. It definitely helped one foot but the jury is out on the worse foot. She said the technique would hurt like hell during and she was right! I hope to know in the next couple days.

For what it’s worth, this PT friend also does not believe that wearing tight fitting stiff shoes all day is healthy and felt that arch support, for some people, just create different problems… as if the supports are used to treat a symptom rather than getting to the root cause of the issue. I like her line of thinking… but of course I would as it is along that of my own (bias).

As far as my planned trip, I am going to have to do it another time, unfortunately….

If the fascial work seems to help, you could try these things called “foot savers” that you stand on to stretch various parts of the bottom of your foot.  Using them, among other things, coincided with my feet getting better.  For what it’s worth, the other things included (first) calf stretches and wearing of a night boot, then moving from the stiff insoles to minimalist shoes for daytime getting around, and switching from boots to trail runners for hiking.  I too felt like (at least after a recovery period) having my feet be more flexible and using different muscles helped more than encasing the feet in an inflexible shoe.